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Author Topic: 2013–07–17 Primecoin Wants to Capture the Wasted Energy of Bitcoin's Algorithm  (Read 1661 times)
ksruictkesn
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July 17, 2013, 03:40:12 PM
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http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/a-week-old-cryptocurrency-wants-to-capture-the-wasted-energy-of-bitcoins-algorithm
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kjlimo
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July 17, 2013, 10:48:38 PM
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Well I bought some on Vircurex a few days ago.  Not sure if I should cash in my 60 percent return yet, or hold on for when Primecoin takes over bitcoin entirely, haha.

Feel free to PM me your email if you'd like to subscribe to my alt coin newsletter.  Just like the guy referenced in the article, I trade many alt coins & share my experiences with my subscribers... such as how my initial involvement with PPC turned $100 into over $15k eight months later!

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July 18, 2013, 04:00:19 AM
 #3

Pretty good article, but the title doesn't really make sense. Primecoin isn't capturing the wasted energy of bitcoin's algorithm. If I understand correctly, it has it's own protocol that will solve for undiscovered prime numbers, thereby using energy for two purposes instead of one.
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July 18, 2013, 10:37:57 AM
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Pretty good article, but the title doesn't really make sense. Primecoin isn't capturing the wasted energy of bitcoin's algorithm. If I understand correctly, it has it's own protocol that will solve for undiscovered prime numbers, thereby using energy for two purposes instead of one.

I think the point is that if Primecoin replaces bitcoin, then bitcoins 'wasted' energy would be replaced with energy going towards the pursuit of prime numbers in addition to processing "the" cryptocurrency... implying we only need one.

but perhaps the market needs two cryptocurrencies... or 50!

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Bitcopia
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July 18, 2013, 09:38:46 PM
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Pretty good article, but the title doesn't really make sense. Primecoin isn't capturing the wasted energy of bitcoin's algorithm. If I understand correctly, it has it's own protocol that will solve for undiscovered prime numbers, thereby using energy for two purposes instead of one.

I think the point is that if Primecoin replaces bitcoin, then bitcoins 'wasted' energy would be replaced with energy going towards the pursuit of prime numbers in addition to processing "the" cryptocurrency... implying we only need one.

but perhaps the market needs two cryptocurrencies... or 50!

I think we definitely need 50! Primecoin is a great example of the unique and undiscovered possibilities of future cryptocurrencies! I highly doubt primecoin will ever replace bitcoin. It's just a nice little niche coin, but the idea is somewhat revolutionary and likely to inspire other dual use protocols.
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July 19, 2013, 12:52:24 AM
 #6

Does anyone know the back story the the coin's release--pre-mininng, etc?

Also if I have script type rigs (GPU based mining like litecoin) can I mine primecoin--or is it SHA-256 like bitcoin?
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July 19, 2013, 10:39:36 AM
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Does anyone know the back story the the coin's release--pre-mininng, etc?

Also if I have script type rigs (GPU based mining like litecoin) can I mine primecoin--or is it SHA-256 like bitcoin?

Feel free to send me any questions you want answered, and if you subscribe to my alt coin newsletter, I'll try answering your questions in a newsletter release next week.

As for your mining question, NO.  this is a third algorithm for mining, something new.  Neither scrypt, nor SHA-256 will work for this.  and I'm thinking GPU's haven't been programmed to mine for it yet.

This is kind of like when litecoin was released... hence why the price of a Primecoin is already 0.015 BTC/XPM on Vircurex/.

So do we need 3 mining algorithms or 1, or 50?  Smiley  the market will tell us...

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July 19, 2013, 10:19:34 PM
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I cringe every time someone thinks Bitcoin's collective hashing power is "wasted".

It just means you don't understand what it does - secures the network, and verifies transactions. There is no percentage "overhead" to capture, just like your automobile doesn't fix potholes in the street while at a stoplight, hashing isn't just shifting bits around for the hell of it.

Please, learn more before spewing out that old trope of "wasting" cycles.

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Bitcopia
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July 20, 2013, 12:13:50 AM
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I cringe every time someone thinks Bitcoin's collective hashing power is "wasted".

It just means you don't understand what it does - secures the network, and verifies transactions. There is no percentage "overhead" to capture, just like your automobile doesn't fix potholes in the street while at a stoplight, hashing isn't just shifting bits around for the hell of it.

Please, learn more before spewing out that old trope of "wasting" cycles.

+1.

How much resource do you think payment processors, gold mining companies, and printing presses waste? Because bitcoin serves many of the same functions as all 3 of those industries.
Birdy
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July 20, 2013, 12:28:26 AM
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just like your automobile doesn't fix potholes in the street while at a stoplight, hashing isn't just shifting bits around for the hell of it.
Well, it wouldn't be bad if cars could do this though.
At least it's a useful altcoin, I think we should be a bit more openminded about possible advancements.

That being said, I don't think investing in Primecoin is a good idea right now, afaik there will be ~28 times more Primecoins than Bitcoins, making the current Primecoin price already nearly 30% of Bitcoins value, if all coins would be distributed (there are just a few mined yet).
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July 20, 2013, 12:29:31 AM
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I cringe every time someone thinks Bitcoin's collective hashing power is "wasted".

It just means you don't understand what it does - secures the network, and verifies transactions. There is no percentage "overhead" to capture, just like your automobile doesn't fix potholes in the street while at a stoplight, hashing isn't just shifting bits around for the hell of it.

Please, learn more before spewing out that old trope of "wasting" cycles.
It's definitely wasting energy if that energy could be used to both solve the necessary problems in securing the network AND something else useful, like what Primecoin does. Otherwise, you need to direct resources at securing the network, and the same (but independent) amount of resources at finding prime numbers. If we can merge the two workloads in the same amount of work without significant tradeoffs, it'd be stupid not to.

It's similar to how not doing BTC mining on a merged-mining-enabled pool is wasteful (or would be, if anyone used NMC). Mining can be a lot more than it is -- we just haven't been creative enough. Maybe one day a SETI-like coin will come out, where you can solve the problems they deem important while securing the SETIcoin network at the same time with no significant increase in work to do both at the same time.
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July 20, 2013, 12:34:16 AM
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I cringe every time someone thinks Bitcoin's collective hashing power is "wasted".

It just means you don't understand what it does - secures the network, and verifies transactions. There is no percentage "overhead" to capture, just like your automobile doesn't fix potholes in the street while at a stoplight, hashing isn't just shifting bits around for the hell of it.

Please, learn more before spewing out that old trope of "wasting" cycles.
It's definitely wasting energy if that energy could be used to both solve the necessary problems in securing the network AND something else useful, like what Primecoin does. Otherwise, you need to direct resources at securing the network, and the same (but independent) amount of resources at finding prime numbers. If we can merge the two workloads in the same amount of work without significant tradeoffs, it'd be stupid not to.

It's similar to how not doing BTC mining on a merged-mining-enabled pool is wasteful (or would be, if anyone used NMC). Mining can be a lot more than it is -- we just haven't been creative enough. Maybe one day a SETI-like coin will come out, where you can solve the problems they deem important while securing the SETIcoin network at the same time with no significant increase in work to do both at the same time.

This isn't a knock against bitcoin then. According to your definition, EVERYTHING humans do is wasteful.
Kluge
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July 20, 2013, 12:41:18 AM
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I cringe every time someone thinks Bitcoin's collective hashing power is "wasted".

It just means you don't understand what it does - secures the network, and verifies transactions. There is no percentage "overhead" to capture, just like your automobile doesn't fix potholes in the street while at a stoplight, hashing isn't just shifting bits around for the hell of it.

Please, learn more before spewing out that old trope of "wasting" cycles.
It's definitely wasting energy if that energy could be used to both solve the necessary problems in securing the network AND something else useful, like what Primecoin does. Otherwise, you need to direct resources at securing the network, and the same (but independent) amount of resources at finding prime numbers. If we can merge the two workloads in the same amount of work without significant tradeoffs, it'd be stupid not to.

It's similar to how not doing BTC mining on a merged-mining-enabled pool is wasteful (or would be, if anyone used NMC). Mining can be a lot more than it is -- we just haven't been creative enough. Maybe one day a SETI-like coin will come out, where you can solve the problems they deem important while securing the SETIcoin network at the same time with no significant increase in work to do both at the same time.

This isn't a knock against bitcoin then. According to your definition, EVERYTHING humans do is wasteful.
Probably. Nothing's perfect. That's why we generally strive to become more efficient. Cryptocurrency software, protocols, and what have you are full of waste, and devs are improving it every day -- all through different means. It's pretty much the first rule of industry everywhere; nothing is ever finished. It can always be improved.

Primecoin and other solutions looking at the problem with a similar premise are all basically looking at ways to recycle computational power already used, so it can be more efficient. Think of it like feed corn. You could try to eat the corn and say "good enough," or you could use the corn to feed to cows - and at that point, you could say "good enough," or you could feed the corn to cows, and then use the manure as fertilizer for feed corn growth - and at that point, you could say "good enough," or you could make a bomb.  Cheesy (this is a... shit... example, though, because with something like Primecoin, the devs did all the work up-front to make future work more efficient - you don't have to keep collecting manure... .... ... yeah, really bad analogy)
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July 20, 2013, 04:12:20 AM
 #14

I cringe every time someone thinks Bitcoin's collective hashing power is "wasted".

It just means you don't understand what it does - secures the network, and verifies transactions. There is no percentage "overhead" to capture, just like your automobile doesn't fix potholes in the street while at a stoplight, hashing isn't just shifting bits around for the hell of it.

Please, learn more before spewing out that old trope of "wasting" cycles.
It's definitely wasting energy if that energy could be used to both solve the necessary problems in securing the network AND something else useful, like what Primecoin does. Otherwise, you need to direct resources at securing the network, and the same (but independent) amount of resources at finding prime numbers. If we can merge the two workloads in the same amount of work without significant tradeoffs, it'd be stupid not to.

It's similar to how not doing BTC mining on a merged-mining-enabled pool is wasteful (or would be, if anyone used NMC). Mining can be a lot more than it is -- we just haven't been creative enough. Maybe one day a SETI-like coin will come out, where you can solve the problems they deem important while securing the SETIcoin network at the same time with no significant increase in work to do both at the same time.

if the bitcoin block reward could just be based on time & randomness to miners, then electricity wouldn't be wasted.

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July 20, 2013, 07:25:08 PM
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It doesn't seem so smart an idea to me. Finding new primes isn't formulaic, that's kind of the whole point of the whole research effort into prime numbers: to discover a predictable way of producing them (a pattern). No such formula for producing primes exists yet. So, it's kind of like starting off a new crypto-currency where the generation difficulty is already waaaaaaaaaay high, as the list of known primes is already very long, and the highest prime is already pretty sizeable. Unless the plan is to start from 2... also not so smart.

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July 20, 2013, 09:43:52 PM
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but perhaps the market needs two cryptocurrencies... or 50!
50! ? that's like 4,27E+54 per every human.
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