Carrying Hardware Wallets When Traveling Internationally

[jerry0]

Are there many of you who travel internationally?  If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people.  But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well?  If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset.  But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it?  Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?


Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor?  But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different?  And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

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[Svelto]

I do travel with my Ledger Nano S (not in the box) and Laptop. You made an interesting point and I didnt declare the values. It is worth thinking of whether there is a need to declare.

I will think Bitcoin to be the same as gold chain, it has a value in fiat but not yet converted to fiat. Hence I feel there is no need to declare.

[gentlemand]

I've heard of some weird incidents in the past with TSA when they think you have 'the bitcoin' on you and started nosing. It's only a matter of time before someone's called out for carrying a hardware wallet even when they haven't done anything wrong and the law is completely unclear. A Ledger at least has more of a resemblance to a bog standard USB stick and I'd also be inclined to cover any branding with tape.

If I was going to the US particularly I wouldn't take one just in case. If I was planning on accessing some while there I'd put a seed in a dark corner of an SD card somewhere and restore a phone wallet.

[BingoDog]

As far as I know this rule only applies if you carry cash in such amount or more then you have the obligation to declare, not credit cards or any other goods. And since bitcoin is not regulated in every country on the same way or is not regulated at all what exactly would you declare.
On the other hand it's interesting point, I never thought of hard wallets that way.

[Iranus]

The US government in particular has been known to be very shady about these things.  Here's an example.

It might be a good idea to be paranoid crossing borders with hardware wallets - one good way to protect yourself would be to enable passphrase protection and put a smaller amount of your coins in a wallet with one passphrase, then a larger amount in a hidden wallet with a different passphrase.

If you're asked for whatever reason, you could (correctly) call it a banking device.

[joebrook]

Are there many of you who travel internationally?  If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people.  But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well?  If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset.  But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it?  Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?


Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor?  But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different?  And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

Though i haven't used any of the hardware wallets before, one stand the risk of losing their bitcoins once it gets missing. And with declaring how much you are carrying, i don't think it really matters especially since the government haven't made any laws making people declare the bitcoins they are holding when travelling.

[secondgarlic]

Are there many of you who travel internationally?  If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people.  But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well?  If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset.  But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it?  Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?


Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor?  But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different?  And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

Maybe a sidebar, but if we're talking about short term travels here (1 week or so) why would you want to carry your hardware wallet around with you? The fear of somehow losing it would terrorize me and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the trip at all. Wouldn't it be best to keep the wallet locked up at home?

[ladadadiweliketoparty]

Are there many of you who travel internationally?  If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people.  But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well?  If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset.  But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it?  Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?


Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor?  But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different?  And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

Maybe a sidebar, but if we're talking about short term travels here (1 week or so) why would you want to carry your hardware wallet around with you? The fear of somehow losing it would terrorize me and I wouldn't be able to enjoy the trip at all. Wouldn't it be best to keep the wallet locked up at home?

Exactly! I would be super paranoid about getting caught even though I haven't done anything wrong and that would show in my actions. As a result, I would be on edge the whole trip and would not be able to enjoy myself. I would always leave it at home and let the cryptos do what they will for that week. It isn't worth the risk of losing a potentially huge asset for something that is the cost of a trip.

[LoyceV]

I will think Bitcoin to be the same as gold chain, it has a value in fiat but not yet converted to fiat. Hence I feel there is no need to declare.

I'm pretty sure customs would disagree with your reasoning. It can easily be used to buy illegal weapons or fund terrorism.
Of course, you could just as well reset the hardware wallet and just remember the recovery words. You can do that without hardware wallet too, 12 words in your mind is enough to carry millions of dollars now.

If I was planning on accessing some while there I'd put a seed in a dark corner of an SD card somewhere and restore a phone wallet.

There's another reason why I wouldn't bring a hardware wallet: it shows you own enough funds to buy a hardware wallet, so you're a good target to get robbed (I don't have one, don't rob me ). A good old "your money or your life", and you'll most likely hand over your PIN.

As far as I know this rule only applies if you carry cash in such amount or more then you have the obligation to declare, not credit cards or any other goods.

Credit cards are okay, because authorities can trace them. Bitcoin is a lot more like cash, it can't be traced, so customs will be very interested.

Though i haven't used any of the hardware wallets before, one stand the risk of losing their bitcoins once it gets missing.

That's why you have a recovery seed phrase.

[baradfo]

So instead of carrying a hardware wallet during travel, why not have an empty wallet on your phone or device. Have a desktop wallet that you can download, like electrum or Jaxx, to your laptop when you get to where you're going. So all you need to have on you is your seed phrase for the desktop wallet. That way, when stopped and if asked, you can declare that you don't have any coin on you since it resides on the blockchain. Once at your destination download the desktop wallet to access your coins and if you need the coins while mobile at your destination send the amount you need to the wallet on your phone. Put the unused coins back into the desktop wallet, delete the downloaded wallet from your desktop, and re-load once you get back to your original destination. That way you don't have coin "on your person" when asked.

[Aura]

I don't think that customs get educated to recognize Bitcoin hardware wallets, nor do they care. Google's Chromecast or flashdrives don't look much different, they're not going to plug it in a computer to check whether you have enough Bitcoins to tax. Also if I worked as a customs agent and recognized your hardware wallet, I would have congratulate you with your ticket to the moon.

[singlecrytpo]

The US government in particular has been known to be very shady about these things.  Here's an example.

It might be a good idea to be paranoid crossing borders with hardware wallets - one good way to protect yourself would be to enable passphrase protection and put a smaller amount of your coins in a wallet with one passphrase, then a larger amount in a hidden wallet with a different passphrase.

If you're asked for whatever reason, you could (correctly) call it a banking device.

I agree. Be very careful when it comes to the US. I wouldn't carry a hardware wallet unless it was a trezor

[Crypto Bloke]

You are only carrying 'code' on your person, not physical cash, or an asset such as gold.  Asking you to declare any Bitcoin you own would be like asking you if you own any stocks/shares/bonds/savings, wouldn't it?

[Mr.Dick]

I think there is no need to tell about your bticoin hard wallet or the bitcoin on your laptop, it is not accepted as currency yet and i8t is (how could it be) not in cash: so I'd say hardware wallets are morlike your housekey, which does not mean you carry thze value of your house in cash.
But honestly it won't take long time until governments will also start thinking about your point...

[Omega Weapon]

Are there many of you who travel internationally?  If you do, obviously you have your laptop as well for many people.  But i assume most of you travel with your nano ledger or trezor as well?  If so, i assume you don't have to declare you have over 10k on you right since its not a currency but an asset.  But also you aren't carrying bitcoin because the nano ledger is basically like your bank card which has money in it?  Has anyone been asked about it when flying internationally?


Then again if you have a bitcoin wallet on your computer such as electrum or any similar ones, wouldn't that be the same thing as a nano ledger or trezor?  But the thing is the nano ledger looks like a keychain or usb but the trezor looks a bit different?  And also when you carry it, do you generally carry it as is or you put it in a box?

I do not know why you feel the need to risk it, bitcoin can be stored in a laptop, a hard drive, an usb or even as a paper wallet and if you do not want to use any medium like that you could remember the seed words from your wallet, if they ask you if you carry more than 10k in valuables then you can say no since you are actually not carrying anything with you since the seed words are in your brain.

[FrueGreads]

I don't travel a lot, and I never thought about that, but that's a really good point. Right now, since there is no regulation regarding that, I guess you don't really have to say anything. I don't really think it's the same as walking with your credit or debit card, because that card only works as a way for you to access your bank account, and it identifies you, and a hard wallet does not. If you carry around the airport with large quantities of gold, you would have to declare it, but there is no way to tell how much you are carrying with your wallet.

On the other hand a hard wallet is a just a way to access your coins, and it doesn't control the amount you hold, and in this way, it's similar to a credit or debit card, so you could declare something, and then just receive more after that, so it would be impossible to keep track. I guess that even if they want to have some control, they won't be able to do it.

[IrenNTA]

I don't know how it's in America, but in Europe no one cares about hardware wallets. It the same as if you travel with a flesh drive. So it's safe until they'll learn how to regulate it.

[Beatcoin.it]

There's just one rule, dont lose the ledger. Just safe it on a small and safe bag locked and you are safe to keep it untouched. Remember you have the pin too.

[dothebeats]

To avoid the hassle or the uncertainties on carrying one, I just carry my phone with bitcoins around wherever I travel, especially when I know that I might need some extra cash. Sometimes when I go to Toronto in visiting my aunt, I bring that phone together with my cards just to be ready whenever there's something I need to buy. I understand that Trezor provides security and portability but the same thing goes to your mobile device--if handled with care--as well. The authorities on the airport won't question a Trezor since most of them don't even know what it does yet. It looks like a flash drive and acts like one so yeah, you're safe.

[AGD]

Send your wallet.dat by email. This way you don't need to carry anything