Repeal of Net neutrality - effects on miners

[Steamtyme]

Just wanted to see if anyone thinks this is going to negatively impact their mining operation.

I understand that the usage of miners is pretty small overall, so I figured it was more a factor for a large scale opertion.

[1715554925]

1715554925

[Zendalet]

I wonder. Could they technically and legally block cryptocurrency transactions? And most importantly, would it make economic sense to do so?

[Iranus]

Well it's only in America, and the bulk of miners seem to be elsewhere.  Places like China, where the Internet is far less neutral than the US, large groups are still managing to mine.

In America though, I suspect it'll have little effect.  ISPs don't have much of an incentive to go against miners, and if they did, the ISP would still have to publicly state what they're intending to do, which would cause a lot of protest.

In the long run, it could affect pretty much anything that Americans do on the Internet, since they could make small changes and creep up on them a bit at a time.

[Xavofat]

I wonder. Could they technically and legally block cryptocurrency transactions?

If they wanted to try, it would take a lot of extra steps that would pretty much push them into dictatorship territory - outright banning all VPNs and Tor (which people would likely obtain anyway) would be an important part of managing it.

And most importantly, would it make economic sense to do so?

I doubt it.  Many people receiving BTC are offline (paper wallets and other cold storage), so they would find it very difficult to find where it went or what happened to the actual coins.

It seems like it would be a totally futile battle to fight and most countries won't bother trying to fight it.

[marky89]

Just wanted to see if anyone thinks this is going to negatively impact their mining operation.

I understand that the usage of miners is pretty small overall, so I figured it was more a factor for a large scale opertion.

This question might be better suited for the Mining speculation forum.

Personally, I don't see the incentive for private ISPs to target bitcoin miners. It'll just drive them to friendlier ISPs, as market competition dictates. The one potential problem I see: if the removal of net neutrality is being used as a smokescreen for the government to pressure ISPs into targeting cryptocurrency miners and/or users.

I wonder. Could they technically and legally block cryptocurrency transactions? And most importantly, would it make economic sense to do so?

Packet analysis can determine that you are connected to cryptocurrency networks. Traffic from such users could be throttled or blocked in theory. You can prevent that by using a VPN setup, but they can also trivially detect the encrypted traffic and block that too.

For net neutrality to be really problematic, VPNs would have to be targeted too.

[Steamtyme]

I was more if the opinion, that they could impose higher fees if they chose to for miner operations or  for exchanges.

It's just one of those things where now they can pick apart how you use your internet and set special rates should they chose to

Just wanted to see if anyone thinks this is going to negatively impact their mining operation.

I understand that the usage of miners is pretty small overall, so I figured it was more a factor for a large scale opertion.

This question might be better suited for the Mining speculation forum.

Good point I'll see if the mods can move it for me. I'm not sure how

[yoseph]

Well it's only in America, and the bulk of miners seem to be elsewhere.  Places like China, where the Internet is far less neutral than the US, large groups are still managing to mine.

In America though, I suspect it'll have little effect.  ISPs don't have much of an incentive to go against miners, and if they did, the ISP would still have to publicly state what they're intending to do, which would cause a lot of protest.

In the long run, it could affect pretty much anything that Americans do on the Internet, since they could make small changes and creep up on them a bit at a time.

I really don't understand why the USA government continually make laws that their citizens don't even like in the first place, all that they care about is making without a care about how it affects the people.

[stevegee58]

Here's how the net neutrality repeal will play out: nothing will happen and nobody will notice any difference.

[VRobb]

^^^ What he said.  Much ado about nothing! 
Mine On! 

[Zendalet]

If nothing changes, then why are the proponents of the repeal so happy? If nothing changes, then why did they want to get rid of net neutrality?

[stevegee58]

If nothing changes, then why are the proponents of the repeal so happy? If nothing changes, then why did they want to get rid of net neutrality?

Here's what it comes down to: Federal regulation vs free enterprise.  The internet was already neutral before Obama decided to make it a regulated utility like a railroad.  The proponents of the repeal are happy because it's back to free enterprise, which is a good thing.  And the internet is staying neutral anyway.

The (loud) supporters of Obama's regulations probably just hate Trump so much that everything he does is wrong. Period.  We live in a highly polarized political climate right now.

[eddie13]

If nothing changes, then why are the proponents of the repeal so happy? If nothing changes, then why did they want to get rid of net neutrality?

Here's what it comes down to: Federal regulation vs free enterprise.  The internet was already neutral before Obama decided to make it a regulated utility like a railroad.  The proponents of the repeal are happy because it's back to free enterprise, which is a good thing.  And the internet is staying neutral anyway.

The (loud) supporters of Obama's regulations probably just hate Trump so much that everything he does is wrong. Period.  We live in a highly polarized political climate right now.

Repealing net neutrality is about keeping government the hell out of the internet and the free market..
The less government in anything the better almost always..

Your government is bad, spains government is bad, canada's government is bad, my USA government is bad.
The greatest thing the government can do is less..
I want my government to do less of everything when it comes to my freedom and the free market..
I don't much mind if they build more military and do more to protect my country from turning into the 3rd world though..


Google, youtube, facebook, the big data collectors and users, those spying on you, are the huge proponents of "net neutrality" so they can get their fingers in through the gov and screw you even more than they are already..

You want that?

[hercthx]

This has nothing to do with which  political  party you support. This has to do with do you want your internet neutral as in internet speed is neutral across the board for all websites (equipment dependant), or do you want your ISP to regulate which sites get better or worse speed (throttling). do you want to pay for the service speed to your local network alone, or do you want to pay extra for site packaging ala loot crate or cable service packaging?

The argument of which idiot in office you support, is the argument the ISP's want you to have.

This is about ISP's using government to monetise the internet further.

When this goes though, and it will, the full effect will be in about 5 years or so, you'll be wondering why your internet bill is so high. this is why. Look at how your cable service behaved. years ago you paid a flat rate for basic or local stations, and then extra for speciality or "satellite" stations back int the 80's-90's, now your cable is bundled and your paying more for the same if not less content. Compare the history of your cable service, that is what to expect of your internet going forward.

The least of the worries is that we'll be paying more for internet, the bigger worry is the ISP's now have the ability with protection  of the FCC to throttle connection speed to "undesirable or unfavourable" websites.

The worry for us is that the banks could use this as an attack on crypto by incentivising the ISP's to throttle connection speeds to crypto exchanges, pools and nodes. The results could be longer delays on trading, and lower returns on mining.

This is a move by the ISP's that can, and will be exploited, regardless of which political party is in power. That is why we see such a high percentage of both dem and gop supporters against this.

[WhyFhy]

If anything does occur thats detrimental to operations large and small alike there are other options, sock5, foreign sat providers are a viable option as well!
This net neutrality stuff has been in the air sometime, Id say rather then worrying about it just prepare for all situations that could be thrown your way , Hope for the best but expect the worst.

[QuintLeo]

Mining is low bandwidth - I doubt that any change to Net Neutrality would affect it.

[Zendalet]

Mining is low bandwidth - I doubt that any change to Net Neutrality would affect it.

They could block mining traffic unless you pay a toll fee. Then you'll try to encrypt your data so they can't do deep packet inspection. Guess what, they'll block all data they can't inspect in name of counter terrorism and money laundering.

That's the kind of innovation supporters of the repeal want. Innovations to make your wallet bleed.

[QuintLeo]

Mining is low bandwidth - I doubt that any change to Net Neutrality would affect it.

They could block mining traffic unless you pay a toll fee. Then you'll try to encrypt your data so they can't do deep packet inspection. Guess what, they'll block all data they can't inspect in name of counter terrorism and money laundering.

That's the kind of innovation supporters of the repeal want. Innovations to make your wallet bleed.

 Block traffic unless you pay a special fee would open them up to massive class-action lawsuits though for breach of contract and restraint of trade, among other potential legally actionable issues.

 METER it, they might be able to get away with without being sued - but mining is such low bandwidth there's no POINT to hassling it for any ISP, it's NOT what causes them to overload.

[alizay]

Mining is low bandwidth - I doubt that any change to Net Neutrality would affect it.

They could block mining traffic unless you pay a toll fee. Then you'll try to encrypt your data so they can't do deep packet inspection. Guess what, they'll block all data they can't inspect in name of counter terrorism and money laundering.

That's the kind of innovation supporters of the repeal want. Innovations to make your wallet bleed.

That's what I'm worried about. And they could decide what toll fee to apply to whom. The smaller you are the higher the cost. As if using a lot of data would help you to benefit from volume discount. In this case, if you're a small miner it would no longer be profitable for you.
And then, block the encrypted data, liek you said.

[QuintLeo]

If metering happens by any ISP, it is going to be HIGH BANDWIDTH USERS AND APPLICATIONS that get metered.

 They've done this to a degree ALREADY on many large ISPs - just not on an "application-specific" basis.

 An ISP has zero financial reason to meter a LOW BANDWIDTH usage application type, and several reasons to NOT do so.

[dlezama]

If metering happens by any ISP, it is going to be HIGH BANDWIDTH USERS AND APPLICATIONS that get metered.

 They've done this to a degree ALREADY on many large ISPs - just not on an "application-specific" basis.

 An ISP has zero financial reason to meter a LOW BANDWIDTH usage application type, and several reasons to NOT do so.

GREED is a great reason for a company like Comcast to try to get money from miners (what's not that hard nowadays, sell a piece of wood you call an open frame rig and you can charge it $100). What they don't have is a proper excuse 

[QuintLeo]

Try to get money from miners is a fail - they'll just shove them into OTHER ISP options, since we don't NEED high-speed Internet to mine with.

The ISPs are far more worried about the impact of HIGH VOLUME USAGE stuff that forces them to spend money for infrastructure upgrades - which have a MUCH MUCH HIGHER impact on their bottom line than trying to get a few $ out of "miners".

 Also keep in mind that outside the "3 cheap electric" counties in Central Washington, miner density is LOW in the US - there aren't enough "miners" using most ISPs outside of this area to make it profitable to TRY to chase forcing them to pay more - and there are MAJOR legal issues with the whole "special fee just for miners" concept that will probably COST an ISP that does that sort of stupid thing a ton more than they could make from it.

[dlezama]

Try to get money from miners is a fail - they'll just shove them into OTHER ISP options, since we don't NEED high-speed Internet to mine with.

The ISPs are far more worried about the impact of HIGH VOLUME USAGE stuff that forces them to spend money for infrastructure upgrades - which have a MUCH MUCH HIGHER impact on their bottom line than trying to get a few $ out of "miners".

 Also keep in mind that outside the "3 cheap electric" counties in Central Washington, miner density is LOW in the US - there aren't enough "miners" using most ISPs outside of this area to make it profitable to TRY to chase forcing them to pay more - and there are MAJOR legal issues with the whole "special fee just for miners" concept that will probably COST an ISP that does that sort of stupid thing a ton more than they could make from it.

You are ignoring the small detail that in many places there is no competition. What other ISP options? I can choose Comcast or no Internet. I agree it is highly unlikely that ISPs won't go after miners, but the reason is not that "they don't generate traffic so we'll leave them alone" it's "I see no way of getting a fuck ton of money out of them without getting into too much trouble". Nothing good comes out of private companies securing monopolies.

[QuintLeo]

There are VERY few places that have no competition at all - virtually NONE in the US.

 You are NOT limited to cable or DSL - you also have Sat service (Exceed worked fine for me for 2 YEARS of mining, abet at a cost of perhaps half a percent higher on stales when mining Bitcoin, NOTICEABLY LESS on anything else), Cellular service usually from A FEW providers, some areas still have DIAL UP available.

I'd be willing to BET you actually have at least 4 and more likely 6-8 actual ISP options, if you don't insist on "I gotta have HUGE BANDWIDTH" when mining doesn't need it.