Portion of Bitcoin enthusiasts who are into Ayn Rand?

[smscotten]

That assertion:

Plus, Atlas Shrugged is more like H P Lovecraft for libertarians.

...is totally flawed because it assumes a fairly uniform response (a) to Lovecraft (b) in the beliefs and attitudes of libertarians.  Neither, of course, is accurate.  Lovecraft was, and can be considered,  brilliant or just b-grade horror.  Libertarians, one subcategory is those who follow Rand, others have different views.

In turn I would make a wild guess that these comments are both by people who have not even read Rand's work, but I'll leave them to comment on that.

Either that or you took the comment to be far more serious than intended.

I meant that from a libertarian perspective, Ayn Rand wrote horror novels.

[Anon136]

basically the problem with altruism is that its a myth, it doesn't actually exist. when you base a decision on faulty information it tends to lead to undesired and unexpected outcomes. so if you base a decision on altruistic considerations, and altruism doesn't exist, than we can expect your decision to lead to unexpected and undesired outcomes. this makes even the most well intentioned altruists dangerous.

Ayn was right about the dangers of altruism but i dont know that she ever properly articulated why altruism is so dangerous and even if she did it took her 1000 pages to accomplish what can be accomplished in a couple of paragraphs.

[Spendulus]

That assertion:

Plus, Atlas Shrugged is more like H P Lovecraft for libertarians.

...is totally flawed because it assumes a fairly uniform response (a) to Lovecraft (b) in the beliefs and attitudes of libertarians.  Neither, of course, is accurate.  Lovecraft was, and can be considered,  brilliant or just b-grade horror.  Libertarians, one subcategory is those who follow Rand, others have different views.

In turn I would make a wild guess that these comments are both by people who have not even read Rand's work, but I'll leave them to comment on that.

Either that or you took the comment to be far more serious than intended.

I meant that from a libertarian perspective, Ayn Rand wrote horror novels.

LOL, if there was a joke please explain it.  I just didn't get it.  Probably my stupidity.

I think her work could arguably be described as dystopian novels of the horror of collectivism.

Is that in line?

[Spendulus]

basically the problem with altruism is that its a myth, it doesn't actually exist. when you base a decision on faulty information it tends to lead to undesired and unexpected outcomes. so if you base a decision on altruistic considerations, and altruism doesn't exist, than we can expect your decision to lead to unexpected and undesired outcomes. this makes even the most well intentioned altruists dangerous.

Ayn was right about the dangers of altruism but i dont know that she ever properly articulated why altruism is so dangerous and even if she did it took her 1000 pages to accomplish what can be accomplished in a couple of paragraphs.

It was fully articulated in "the virtue of selfishness" and other non fiction works.  This was a major theme.  She viewed altruism as a primary tool that leaders used to produce unselfish (eg in the interest of the leader) behavior in groups of people.

[smscotten]

LOL, if there was a joke please explain it.  I just didn't get it.  Probably my stupidity.

I think her work could arguably be described as dystopian novels of the horror of collectivism.

Is that in line?

Pretty much. I just read that comparison of Ayn Rand's novels to the Lord of the Rings and thought, "hmm... wizards and elves? No, more like Yog-Sothoth."

[Spendulus]

LOL, if there was a joke please explain it.  I just didn't get it.  Probably my stupidity.

I think her work could arguably be described as dystopian novels of the horror of collectivism.

Is that in line?

Pretty much. I just read that comparison of Ayn Rand's novels to the Lord of the Rings and thought, "hmm... wizards and elves? No, more like Yog-Sothoth."

Got it....by the way, if you like dystopian films, eg Mad Max Beyond ThunderDome, Idiocracy, etc, Atlas Shrugged are movies worth watching.  Two out, final in production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF9QT43uDQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZWuz4t5ng

[smscotten]

Got it....by the way, if you like dystopian films, eg Mad Max Beyond ThunderDome, Idiocracy, etc, Atlas Shrugged are movies worth watching.  Two out, final in production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF9QT43uDQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZWuz4t5ng

Yeah, I thought they were all right. I think the casting choices improved the second film, but I didn't really see in either anything that preached to anyone other than the converted. However, I understand that John Galt's speech will start halfway through the fourth film and end as the climax to the sixth. 

[Spendulus]

Got it....by the way, if you like dystopian films, eg Mad Max Beyond ThunderDome, Idiocracy, etc, Atlas Shrugged are movies worth watching.  Two out, final in production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF9QT43uDQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRZWuz4t5ng

Yeah, I thought they were all right. I think the casting choices improved the second film, but I didn't really see in either anything that preached to anyone other than the converted. However, I understand that John Galt's speech will start halfway through the fourth film and end as the climax to the sixth.  

Definite Lovecraftian manaical steadfast pursuit of the Objective premises.

Many  believers in Rand got it wrong.  Galt got it wrong with his speech.  Maybe he was pissed off because they called him in to save the world.

[Kleptoid]

http://www.gorevidalnow.com/2011/06/gore-vidal-on-ayn-rand-in-1961-she-has-a-great-attraction-for-simple-people

I read Atlas Shrugged. It sickened me, and was badly written.

[smscotten]

http://www.gorevidalnow.com/2011/06/gore-vidal-on-ayn-rand-in-1961-she-has-a-great-attraction-for-simple-people

I read Atlas Shrugged. It sickened me, and was badly written.

I read Atlas Shrugged. My opinion of it isn't worth a fly on a horse's ass.

I would, however, be happy to discuss what I agree and disagree with about the ideas it conveyed.

If you feel strongly enough about them to be sickened, perhaps you'd care to discuss why it was that you dislike what it said.

Otherwise, what you wrote is about as meaningful as "Ayn Rannd is teh suxx0r!!!1!"

[2dogs]

Ayn Rand's philosophy, for those who care to study and understand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectivism_(Ayn_Rand)

http://www.atlassociety.org/  
The Atlas Society promotes open Objectivism: the philosophy of reason, achievement, individualism, and freedom.

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=index

http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=objectivism_intro
My philosophy, Objectivism, holds that:

Reality exists as an objective absolute—facts are facts, independent of man’s feelings, wishes, hopes or fears.

Reason (the faculty which identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses) is man’s only means of perceiving reality, his only source of knowledge, his only guide to action, and his basic means of survival.

Man—every man—is an end in himself, not the means to the ends of others. He must exist for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself. The pursuit of his own rational self-interest and of his own happiness is the highest moral purpose of his life.

The ideal political-economic system is laissez-faire capitalism. It is a system where men deal with one another, not as victims and executioners, nor as masters and slaves, but as traders, by free, voluntary exchange to mutual benefit. It is a system where no man may obtain any values from others by resorting to physical force, and no man may initiate the use of physical force against others. The government acts only as a policeman that protects man’s rights; it uses physical force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use, such as criminals or foreign invaders. In a system of full capitalism, there should be (but, historically, has not yet been) a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

[HenryRomp]

...a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

This is where I see the connection to bitcoin. I believe that bitcoin is the first meaningful step towards separation of state and economics.

[Spendulus]

http://www.gorevidalnow.com/2011/06/gore-vidal-on-ayn-rand-in-1961-she-has-a-great-attraction-for-simple-people

I read Atlas Shrugged. It sickened me, and was badly written.

Please don't take this the wrong way.  Ayn Rand was very critical, satirical and at times, savagely insulting to large groups of people, broadly, working for/believing in the collectives.

Someone who saw differently would of course be insulted.

I guess you could say that would have been intentional.

But that has nothing to do with the merits of her system of beliefs in capitalism.  I think it's fair to make that distinction.  EG, her philosophy could be correct and optimal, but you might find it disgusting.

[Spendulus]

...a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

This is where I see the connection to bitcoin. I believe that bitcoin is the first meaningful step towards separation of state and economics.

I don't think the major players in the Atlas Society have actually thought this matter through at present.  That may be due to their being in large part the scholarly types.  It is inevitable that they realize this and once they get it, all hell breaks loose.  I suspect they'll grasp it faster than, say, the hard money/gold bug Austrian economist types.

It'll be fun.

[2dogs]

...a complete separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

This is where I see the connection to bitcoin. I believe that bitcoin is the first meaningful step towards separation of state and economics.

Agree.  Led me to this page:

http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/economic_power_vs_political_power.html

What is the basic, the essential, the crucial principle that differentiates freedom from slavery? It is the principle of voluntary action versus physical coercion or compulsion.

The difference between political power and any other kind of social “power,” between a government and any private organization, is the fact that a government holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force..

The fact that bitcoin is voluntary participation, and fiat is the opposite, says it all.
You don't see bitcoiners forcing their ideology down anyone's throat.

But you do see growing resistance and critique of bitcoin amongst the fiat crowd.
And, as we have seen, the penalties for messing with the fiat in place are usually quite dramatic.

[Spendulus]

....

But you do see growing resistance and critique of bitcoin amongst the fiat crowd.

Unfortunately for them, the added publicity is a positive for bitcoin.

Bitcoin is big in China, I wonder if there are similar resistance and critiques there.

[2dogs]

Latest examples of "GOING GALT":

Lavabit and Silent Circle


Right out of the script of ATLAS SHRUGGED.

[Richy_T]

Latest examples of "GOING GALT":

Lavabit and Silent Circle


Right out of the script of ATLAS SHRUGGED.

Hmm. They're hardly providing essential infrastructure though. I expect it's just the start, however. The next big thing is all those non-US companies pulling all their data from the cloud (or US based parts of it).

[Spendulus]

Latest examples of "GOING GALT":

Lavabit and Silent Circle


Right out of the script of ATLAS SHRUGGED.

Hmm. They're hardly providing essential infrastructure though. I expect it's just the start, however. The next big thing is all those non-US companies pulling all their data from the cloud (or US based parts of it).

Might want to think that over a bit.  Rand used the train to symbolize essential infrastructure, but I have no doubt if she was here today she'd be looking at the virtual Galt's Gulch, not the physical, and she'd be looking at all those internet tubes, not the tubes going through the mountains for the trains.

But she's not here, so it is up to others to recognize the fundamental aspects of instantaneous transactions peer to peer through the entire world, and act on them to build business models.

[2dogs]

Latest examples of "GOING GALT":

Lavabit and Silent Circle


Right out of the script of ATLAS SHRUGGED.

Hmm. They're hardly providing essential infrastructure though. I expect it's just the start, however. The next big thing is all those non-US companies pulling all their data from the cloud (or US based parts of it).

Might want to think that over a bit.  Rand used the train to symbolize essential infrastructure, but I have no doubt if she was here today she'd be looking at the virtual Galt's Gulch, not the physical, and she'd be looking at all those internet tubes, not the tubes going through the mountains for the trains.

But she's not here, so it is up to others to recognize the fundamental aspects of instantaneous transactions peer to peer through the entire world, and act on them to build business models.

Yup - doesn't matter if they are "essential infrastructure" at this point.
It's the act of defiance and showing the .gov "the middle finger" that is significant.