I believe the price has nowhere to go but down and here's why I think so.

[ElectricMucus]

EM is the official daily King Troll

Accusing me of trolling while ignoring the arguments I present still seems to be a popular tactic.

Here is a reason for you of why it won't happen:
In order to reach those levels it would require so much money that the only people who could bring it there are those who controlbenefit from the monetary system in the first place.
For Bitcoin the Winklevoss are the end of the road. Any more wealthy than that and they would stand more to lose than they can win.

This is utter tosh, even for you Mucus. Bitcoin success and traditional investment wealth are not mutually exclusive.

Failure of the traditional monetary system may spur success of Bitcoin, but the corollary is not true.

Interesting terminology, I've read it a couple of time and still don't get it.
Please elaborate.

If you are confused with my terminology as I am with yours:
My point is that people further down the line after the Winklevoss would have a smaller piece of the Pie than they had before since the rest of the cake has already been eaten.

[1714831413]

1714831413

[1714831413]

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[superduh]

Nice original thread here.  I think BTC will go higher.  It's likely some event will occur that makes BTC more widely known and from that point it can spread by word of mouth.  If someone's telling you about Bitcoin but everyone else you know has never heard of it youre likely to ignore it.  When it gets to the point where 1/15 people or more have heard of it, it can start to take off, everyone will want at least 1 whole Bitcoin which isn't going to happen, but can for the very early adopters or very wealthy.

by the time 1/15 people know about 1 btc would likely cost more than $10,000+

[Coinseeker]

Nice original thread here.  I think BTC will go higher.  It's likely some event will occur that makes BTC more widely known and from that point it can spread by word of mouth.  If someone's telling you about Bitcoin but everyone else you know has never heard of it youre likely to ignore it.  When it gets to the point where 1/15 people or more have heard of it, it can start to take off, everyone will want at least 1 whole Bitcoin which isn't going to happen, but can for the very early adopters or very wealthy.

by the time 1/15 people know about 1 btc would likely cost more than $10,000+

Seeing these $10.000+ comments never gets old.  On what planet are people going to pay $10,000/BTC.  Matter of fact, who's going to buy it all the way up to $10,000?  

To the thread title, I agree bitcoin is headed back down to the 50's but it can always go up just the same.  There's positive news in Africa, which could be huge and Argentina (as I was recently arguing about) is using BTC as a means to USD but we can't ignore that does increase exposure.  So to say there's nowhere to go but down, I think is fundamentally flawed based on the continued resilience of Bitcoin.  $10k? Dreaming...

[BitChick]

Nice original thread here.  I think BTC will go higher.  It's likely some event will occur that makes BTC more widely known and from that point it can spread by word of mouth.  If someone's telling you about Bitcoin but everyone else you know has never heard of it youre likely to ignore it.  When it gets to the point where 1/15 people or more have heard of it, it can start to take off, everyone will want at least 1 whole Bitcoin which isn't going to happen, but can for the very early adopters or very wealthy.

by the time 1/15 people know about 1 btc would likely cost more than $10,000+

Seeing these $10.000+ comments never gets old.  On what planet are people going to pay $10,000/BTC.  Matter of fact, who's going to buy it all the way up to $10,000?  

To the thread title, I agree bitcoin is headed back down to the 50's but it can always go up just the same.  There's positive news in Africa, which could be huge and Argentina (as I was recently arguing about) is using BTC as a means to USD but we can't ignore that does increase exposure.  So to say there's nowhere to go but down, I think is fundamentally flawed based on the continued resilience of Bitcoin.  $10k? Dreaming...

People will certainly not want to pay $10,000 for 1 BTC.  When the price approaches $1,000 BTC we will start to see BTC listed and sold in much smaller increments on trading platforms.  People will feel like they are purchasing 100 BTC but they will actually be purchasing 100ubtc or 100mbtc and they will be perfectly content to do so, especially if the price continues to rise.

[Walsoraj]

Coinseeker:

If I can push the price over 10,000$ by end of July, would you kindly lick my salty balls?

-Wals, ultranode^tm

[Coinseeker]

Nice original thread here.  I think BTC will go higher.  It's likely some event will occur that makes BTC more widely known and from that point it can spread by word of mouth.  If someone's telling you about Bitcoin but everyone else you know has never heard of it youre likely to ignore it.  When it gets to the point where 1/15 people or more have heard of it, it can start to take off, everyone will want at least 1 whole Bitcoin which isn't going to happen, but can for the very early adopters or very wealthy.

by the time 1/15 people know about 1 btc would likely cost more than $10,000+

Seeing these $10.000+ comments never gets old.  On what planet are people going to pay $10,000/BTC.  Matter of fact, who's going to buy it all the way up to $10,000?  

To the thread title, I agree bitcoin is headed back down to the 50's but it can always go up just the same.  There's positive news in Africa, which could be huge and Argentina (as I was recently arguing about) is using BTC as a means to USD but we can't ignore that does increase exposure.  So to say there's nowhere to go but down, I think is fundamentally flawed based on the continued resilience of Bitcoin.  $10k? Dreaming...

People will certainly not want to pay $10,000 for 1 BTC.  When the price approaches $1,000 BTC we will start to see BTC listed and sold in much smaller increments on trading platforms.  People will feel like they are purchasing 100 BTC but they will actually be purchasing 100ubtc or 100mbtc and they will be perfectly content to do so, especially if the price continues to rise.

That's a pipe dream.  People have been talking about BTC in mBTC and other variations for a long time and there is no consensus on the matter.  There is no reason to think that just because BTC hits $1000 that all of a sudden, there will be consensus. There are going to be those that want it and those that don't and with a stale mate, nothing will change.  Anything is possible of course, but I see no indication that such an agreement would manifest.  So assuming that is true, the question stands, how will BTC ever reach $10k?  Who is going to buy it up to $10k?  If there is no consensus, is it fair to say that it's very unlikely it will ever hit anything close to $10k?

[superduh]

Nice original thread here.  I think BTC will go higher.  It's likely some event will occur that makes BTC more widely known and from that point it can spread by word of mouth.  If someone's telling you about Bitcoin but everyone else you know has never heard of it youre likely to ignore it.  When it gets to the point where 1/15 people or more have heard of it, it can start to take off, everyone will want at least 1 whole Bitcoin which isn't going to happen, but can for the very early adopters or very wealthy.

by the time 1/15 people know about 1 btc would likely cost more than $10,000+

Seeing these $10.000+ comments never gets old.  On what planet are people going to pay $10,000/BTC.  Matter of fact, who's going to buy it all the way up to $10,000?  

To the thread title, I agree bitcoin is headed back down to the 50's but it can always go up just the same.  There's positive news in Africa, which could be huge and Argentina (as I was recently arguing about) is using BTC as a means to USD but we can't ignore that does increase exposure.  So to say there's nowhere to go but down, I think is fundamentally flawed based on the continued resilience of Bitcoin.  $10k? Dreaming...

baby troll (tm) - can you do basic math and 2+2 kind of problems?

[Anenome5]

So assuming that is true, the question stands, how will BTC ever reach $10k?  Who is going to buy it up to $10k?  If there is no consensus, is it fair to say that it's very unlikely it will ever hit anything close to $10k?

For btc to hit $10k there would have to be either sustained or immediate high demand. Which means something drastic in the world would have to change that was irreversible.

Btc won't hit $10k any time soon unless the ordinary financial systems continue to stumble. As long as the dollar and other fiats are 'good enough,' people won't feel the need to pay the cost of both learning a new system--a very alien system--and buying into the currency in the first place.

It's crisis that drove the creation of bitcoin and will drive adoption of bitcoin.

So really, all we have to do is wait, because fiat is always headed into crisis continually, and eventually crisis cannot be forestalled anymore.

All fiat currencies historically have eventually inflated to destruction. Don't think the US dollar will be any different. When social security started, something like 20 workers supported one retiree. Now that number is 3 workers to 1 retiree. And now they want to add obamacare to the load.

Because retiree benefits are hard-coded and the value of the dollar is not, the way you circumvent the requirement is to devalue the dollar.

They will borrow to make it happen, and when interest rates come up they'll be paying nearly $1 trillion a year just in debt service. And they'll borrow to pay the debt service. That's unsustainable.

The likely response to such a crisis will be to devalue the dollar further. They will imagine that because they've avoided raging inflation for the last 5 years now that they will always be able to avoid inflation no matter how much money they print. When this illusion comes down on their head then it may be the final crisis for the dollar.

Because when you devalue the dollar you aren't just stealing from American holders of dollars. You're also pissing off China, Japan, and Germany whom hold vast quantities of debt in dollars. And they may at some point decide to dump the dollar as reserve currency.

Oh yes, at some point inflation, and lots of it, is coming to the US, and gold will be largely unavailable, though people will try. Bitcoin will be one of the more available things and probably start to blow up.

If and when we see $10k plus, it'll be around then, when everyone is looking for an inflation hedge and everyone holding bitcoin knows they shouldn't be selling. Then it will take a lot of money to bring out the greed in a bitcoin holder, and then you'll see $10k and mainstream adoption.

It'll be years, but I'm confident we'll see it in our lifetime.

[kingcrimson]

Right now 111 bitcoins is worth $10,000 ... that is amazing. you can say, who would ever pay $10,000 for 111 bitcoins?
But it is happening right now every single day.
It is likely with the limited supply of bitcoin that the demand will skyrocket

[Peter Lambert]

Right now 111 bitcoins is worth $10,000 ... that is amazing. you can say, who would ever pay $10,000 for 111 bitcoins?
But it is happening right now every single day.
It is likely with the limited supply of bitcoin that the demand will skyrocket

+1

Ask "Who would pay $10 for 1 mB?" and the answer will be anybody who wants to buy a bit of bitcoin when the price is 10`000 USD per XBT on all the official foreign exchange platforms.

And saying that the price has to bought up by using millions of dollars is incorrect. If the consensus is that bitcoins should be priced at $10`000, then all the asks will move north of that number and just a few dollars will move the price up to there.

[Coinseeker]

<For btc to hit $10k there would have to be....snip>

There is so much fundamentally wrong with this post, I hardly know where to start...

First, crisis didn't drive Bitcoin, paranoia based in economic ignorance did,yet most of it was just simple greed.  

Second, if the USD collapses, and thats a big IF, the thought that people would run into Bitcoin to pay up to $10,000, defies logic. Why? If the dollar is collapsed, it's not worth anything.  You going to trade Bitcoins for a currency that's not worth anything?     I guess maybe someone would, because Bitcoin would likely be worth nothing as well.  Without fiat, there is no purpose for Bitcoin because people have no value to send to anyone.  

Things like food, cloths, shelter, deodorant, gasoline, chewing gum, etc...will ilkely be more valuable than some "internet play money".  It's amazing that people really think that the world economies will collapse but yet everyone will just continue on with thier lives, except they'll run and buy Bitcoin with all their fiat that's not worth anything, so they can send zero value back and forth to each other anonymously, because the prying eyes of a goverment that no longer exists, will want to regulate and tax the massive amounts of zero value transactions taking place.    

Third, ObamaCare reduces healthcare costs...might be a good idea to do some actual research instead of just regurgitating 4 year old talking points and supporting the greedy health insurance providers, by pushing their flawed and repeatedly disproven rhetoric.

Four, SSI does not contribute to the debt in any meaningful way, so yet another old and tired, false Fox news talking point.  In fact, if government would stop "borrowing" from it, given that it continues to run in surplus, you likely wouldn't even have this talking point.  Which was created to simply distract the simpletons from realizing the government has been stealing from the SSI surplus for years and they don't want to pay that money back so they try to convince everyone it's "unsustainable", "Better just get rid of it."

So, back to the original question.  Does anyone have any justification as to how Bitcoin is going to reach $10,000?  And I mean, something based in reality, not "internet libertarian" fantasy.

[xavier]

We've seen the speculators get flushed out, when the price moved down to $60

Now it's only strong hands holding bitcoin.

I don't see any downwards movements in the near future, unless there is a fundamental cause - ie. a problem with the blockchain or protocol, or a serious competitor

[desired_username]

We've seen the speculators get flushed out, when the price moved down to $60

Now it's only strong hands holding bitcoin.

I don't see any downwards movements in the near future, unless there is a fundamental cause - ie. a problem with the blockchain or protocol, or a serious competitor

Speculators will move in full swing when there's a significant drop.

[crumbs]

We've seen the speculators get flushed out, when the price moved down to $60

The smart/lucky ones bought in at the bottom, waiting to dump at a decent high/depth.  That's what speculators do -- buy low, sell high

Now it's only strong hands holding bitcoin.

You mean to say unlucky/lazy hands.  People invest to make, not lose money.

I don't see any downwards movements in the near future, unless there is a fundamental cause - ie. a problem with the blockchain or protocol, or a serious competitor

... or the thing responsible for crashes in the past -- *nothing*.

[semaforo]

   It does look like potential buyers are sitting back and waiting to see what happens. Perhaps there will be the capitulation some are talking about, perhaps Kipochi-Argentina-Iceland will take off.
   
   As for the $1 millibit, all we need to wait for to see it is the end of the petrodollar.

  The US is trying to get in the best possible position for when this happens. Swamped in dollar denominated debt and with the ability to devalue the dollar, what would you do? Make that debt cheaper.

   By issuing more debt internationally and buying up debt domestically, political support is secured at home and bond holders are left holding the short end of the stick. There is no intention to repay this debt. As with all sovereign defaults, it will be renegotiated at a hefty discount. Wars usually accompany these re-negotiations, with deal struck depending on the outcome of the war.

   Read about it in a book called "This time is different: 800 years of financial folly" written by some US treasury officials.

[Inedible]

By the same token that your weak-minded friend was impressed that "a bitcoin" is "worth more than the dollar", we have idiots on CNBC saying things like "it's crazy that people are actually willing to pay $100 for just one of these bitcoin things". WTF!! Why can't people understand divisibility and percentages?

Don't be part of the problem!

Actually its more like why pay 100 Dollars for something that someone payed 1 Cent for three years ago?

Or worse why pay someone 100 Dollars for something that they bought for 1 Cent three years ago?
Of course that does only makes sense if you think there is someone who will pay you 10,000 Dollars in another three years.

Don't you be part of the problem.

You're right - my aunt was telling me how houses used to cost around £3000 where she lived. These days the same ones are worth around £500,000.

I'll wait till houses go back down to £3000 before I buy again.

Thanks for the tip.

Are you seriously comparing inflation over decades resulting in 16 fold increase to the 3 years of Bitcoin evangelism resulting in a 1000 fold increase?

Are you saying the principle isn't the same?

[codesuela]

the blind optimism in this thread is sad and childish. bitcoin will never be worth 10000 usd. it is a pipe dream and you better let it go. bitcoin is supposed to be a currency not your personal lottery ticket. sadly beliefs like this are probably the reason why we are still close to the tripple digits as it keeps holders of big amounts of bitcoins from cashing out. the price of bitcoin is just reflects the current sentiment towards this pipe dream. Coinseeker is being called a troll and ignored for bringing a little bit of realism to bitcoin wonderland. if crypto currency will succeed bitcoin will be surpassed by something better. best case scenario is that there will be a perpetual stream of cryptocurrencies that never really break out into the mainstream similar to the centralized grey area currencies like perfect money, liqpay and liberty reserve. in any case i bet my left nut that 10k for one coin will never happen and it never should because value fluctuations are poison for a currency. but it is still early and bitcoin has been widely successful but we need people actually using it instead of the get rich quick crowd that hopes that bitcoin will enable them to comfortably retire in the near future.

[ElectricMucus]

By the same token that your weak-minded friend was impressed that "a bitcoin" is "worth more than the dollar", we have idiots on CNBC saying things like "it's crazy that people are actually willing to pay $100 for just one of these bitcoin things". WTF!! Why can't people understand divisibility and percentages?

Don't be part of the problem!

Actually its more like why pay 100 Dollars for something that someone payed 1 Cent for three years ago?

Or worse why pay someone 100 Dollars for something that they bought for 1 Cent three years ago?
Of course that does only makes sense if you think there is someone who will pay you 10,000 Dollars in another three years.

Don't you be part of the problem.

You're right - my aunt was telling me how houses used to cost around £3000 where she lived. These days the same ones are worth around £500,000.

I'll wait till houses go back down to £3000 before I buy again.

Thanks for the tip.

Are you seriously comparing inflation over decades resulting in 16 fold increase to the 3 years of Bitcoin evangelism resulting in a 1000 fold increase?

Are you saying the principle isn't the same?

Only if Scientology would have taken over the housing market.

Who knows was your aunt by chance living in Hubbarts neighborhood?

[smscotten]

The real value does not have to do with speculation. Speculation is about predicting the future real value. The real value has to do with it being used as a currency for goods, services, and savings.

Just taking the US into account (to make the numbers easier) if one of every hundred people in the US put one percent of their savings into Bitcoin—not counting any other uses—the exchange rate would have to be roughly $1000 per Bitcoin. We're a long way from that level of adoption but I think it shows that there is a long way up. In a utopian "Bitcoin becomes the one world currency" scenario, we'd have to add about eight more decimal places because one satoshi would be more than an upper-middle-class family earns in a year.

DISCLAIMER: all maths leading to these conclusions were done off the top of my head, and could be wrong by several orders of magnitude. Do the numbers yourself before repeating any such figures.

DISCLAIMER 2: I'm not claiming that these conditions will happen, I'm just saying that there is a lot of room for the value of BTC to increase. If those conditions don't come to pass (if large numbers of people don't start using Bitcoin for something other than speculation) Bitcoin could drop back below a dollar in a few years. There's no question that BTC is in a large speculative bubble—the question is whether the speculators are right and the actual trading value of BTC will eventually be tied to goods and services rather than speculators and fiat currency.

[smscotten]

a hundred dollars from 1930 have the buying power of 1000-7000 usd today. that is a 10-70x increase. of a currency that is used by the BIGGEST ECONOMY OF THE WORLD, world reserve currency etc. etc. issued by a country that went from underdog to world leader and superpower.
still not the roughly 110x increase deluded people hope for.

That's actually a 10-70x decrease in currency value. Invalid comparison. Just saying.