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Author Topic: The investment value of the forever stamp  (Read 3454 times)
MoonShadow
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January 04, 2011, 01:35:05 AM
 #1

http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/peter-schiff/forever-stamps-tell-us-much

Here's an idea, selling postage stamps for bitcoin.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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The Madhatter
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January 04, 2011, 01:41:34 AM
 #2

Lol!

I should put some 'Canada permanent stamps' on Bitcoin Gadgets. Tongue
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January 04, 2011, 02:00:59 AM
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There can be no such thing as a forever stamp.

At some point they will need the money, so they'll just limit the supply of those "forever" stamps.

People will still have no choice but buying normal inflationnary stamps.

IMO
chris200x9
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January 04, 2011, 02:05:15 AM
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Forever stamps are pretty much the worst idea ever, they are the epitome of all that is wrong with America - instant gratification with no thought of the future.
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January 04, 2011, 02:18:27 AM
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There can be no such thing as a forever stamp.

At some point they will need the money, so they'll just limit the supply of those "forever" stamps.

People will still have no choice but buying normal inflationnary stamps.

IMO


True, but the point of the article is that so long as the USPS is still selling forever stamps in an inflationary environment, they are a better store of value, and perhaps more liquid, than the US government's debt.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
Stephen Gornick
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January 04, 2011, 02:22:16 AM
 #6

BOOKLET OF 20 USA FOREVER FIRST-CLASS LETTER STAMPS
http://www.biddingpond.com/item.php?id=200

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January 04, 2011, 02:48:41 AM
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Forever stamps have the same effect as the home buyer credit did. People won't mail more, they just pay now instead of later. The USPS gets to spend money from the future now. This is a particularly great deal if they go out of business and get to spend revenue they never would have made otherwise. Peak mail has come and gone imo.

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January 04, 2011, 02:57:31 AM
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BOOKLET OF 20 USA FOREVER FIRST-CLASS LETTER STAMPS

Two can play at that game! Tongue

Booklet of 10 Canada Permanent Stamps
http://www.bitcoingadgets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=13&products_id=36
MoonShadow
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January 04, 2011, 05:12:50 AM
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Forever stamps have the same effect as the home buyer credit did. People won't mail more, they just pay now instead of later. The USPS gets to spend money from the future now. This is a particularly great deal if they go out of business and get to spend revenue they never would have made otherwise. Peak mail has come and gone imo.

You didn't really read the article before posting, did you?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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January 04, 2011, 05:34:47 AM
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Forever stamps have the same effect as the home buyer credit did. People won't mail more, they just pay now instead of later. The USPS gets to spend money from the future now. This is a particularly great deal if they go out of business and get to spend revenue they never would have made otherwise. Peak mail has come and gone imo.

You didn't really read the article before posting, did you?

I did, and I agree with pretty much everything but the conclusion.

Yes, the USPS will get bailed out maybe multiple times, eventually the dollar dies and the US gov leaves the scene. Bailouts aren't magic, every one sacrifices some of the length of dollar rule, it is hard to know how much. But long before that, Saturday mail will disappear, then maybe Wednesday, who knows. Theft of packages will become common, etc.

If he just means forever stamps are better than holding dollars then fine, but the dollar is a pretty low benchmark.

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MoonShadow
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January 04, 2011, 05:36:19 AM
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If he just means forever stamps are better than holding dollars then fine, but the dollar is a pretty low benchmark.

Well, yes.  That's the core of the article.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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January 04, 2011, 06:02:26 AM
 #12

Quote
Given these stamps will always be completely liquid, the only way an investor can lose money on forever stamps is if the price of postage goes down. There may not be a single human on the planet who thinks that this is a likely scenario. On the other hand, if postage rates rise with inflation then the stamps are a very, very safe bet.

I think it is guaranteed to go down, I just don't know the timeline. Weather it drops only in real terms or in nominal too, I dunno.

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Stephen Gornick
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January 04, 2011, 06:32:29 AM
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But long before that, Saturday mail will disappear,
http://www.usps.com/communications/five-daydelivery/welcome.htm

Theft of packages will become common, etc.
http://www.startribune.com/local/east/112799879.html
http://blog.al.com/breaking/2010/12/former_postal_worker_accused_o.html
http://coloradocommunitynewspapers.com/articles/2010/12/14/highlands_ranch_herald/news/16_cm_thefts_hr.txt
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/Canada+Post+employee+charged+over+missing+discarded+mail+Gatineau/4037844/story.html

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January 04, 2011, 07:14:48 AM
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Haha, ridiculous, especially the Canadian one.

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caveden
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January 04, 2011, 08:37:05 AM
 #15

ha! Soon we'll be hearing about stamps counterfeiting... Cheesy

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January 04, 2011, 09:20:15 AM
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ha! Soon we'll be hearing about stamps counterfeiting... Cheesy

They do seem rather vulnerable to me. What is the hard part exactly?

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January 04, 2011, 11:45:46 AM
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ha! Soon we'll be hearing about stamps counterfeiting... Cheesy

They do seem rather vulnerable to me. What is the hard part exactly?

Stamp counterfeiting, at least for U.S. Postage within America, can be prosecuted under similar or the same laws as counterfeiting currency.  It is a dangerous game so far trying to play that game, and puts you directly under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Secret Service.

Stamps are also made with security considerations, including things that don't normally get publicized as well, so I don't think it is nearly as easy as you would think.  If something seems a little off, it would be noticed.  Also, most people are not used to buying stamps from ordinary people or from a random stranger like at a flea market.  If they aren't sold at a post office, they are usually sold at a brick and mortar retail store that has a reputation to keep up, where they won't be selling stamps except from a distribution chain that ends up coming from the USPS.

If you are selling to the philatelic community, expect even more scrutiny than had you been selling the stamps to a secret service agent directly.  Good luck with that one, where a counterfeit stamp would be rooted out so quick that it would make your head spin... at least for some schmuck that doesn't care about stamps.  You might get away with it, but I think you would find it easier to simply counterfeit a FRN if that was your goal.  Or more significantly, simply buy a bunch of GPUs and start mining bitcoins instead... you'll be money ahead by doing that.

What is being done for postal counterfeiting is mainly with "exotic foreign countries" of some sort or another and trying to pass them off as the genuine thing outside of that country.  Again, this is a pointless exercise, and you would be better advised to deal with a micronation like the Hutt River Province or Sealand and simply make it "official postage" if you want to go through that sort of effort.  That sort of is the point where the cost of making the postage is presumed to be nearly the same as its face value, except when made in large volume.  Perhaps a good home printer can make some stamps that you might pass off to somebody else, but is it worth the effort?

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January 04, 2011, 12:26:45 PM
 #18

I guess I haven't looked at a stamp lately, I thought they were pretty much stickers. And there are so many kinds as opposed to the FRN and the scrutiny must be minimal when you just use them regularly. I'm thinking that the main thing is that moving 100k in FRNs is a lot easier to do without raising suspicion than 100k worth of stamps. I mean I could just eat for 9 years and the FRNs would be used up, but I'm never ever in my life going to use that many stamps. So maybe it makes sense to focus a lot more on making the dollar harder to copy than the stamp. And I'm not saying it would be trivial to counterfeit stamps, I don't have a bit of knowledge about the security features.

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