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Author Topic: Book request to the dwellers Politics & Society  (Read 3814 times)
ascent
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July 14, 2011, 04:05:36 PM
 #21

Having lurked in your threads I find myself entirely ill equipped and my ignorance outright embarrasses me within this field and so onto my request or should I say plea.

Are you looking to be a victim of groupthink? In a nutshell: "The primary socially negative cost of groupthink is the loss of individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking."

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July 15, 2011, 05:59:44 PM
 #22

Having lurked in your threads I find myself entirely ill equipped and my ignorance outright embarrasses me within this field and so onto my request or should I say plea.

Are you looking to be a victim of groupthink? In a nutshell: "The primary socially negative cost of groupthink is the loss of individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking."

Yes thats right im hoping to be told what to think. Thats why I'm here. Kiss

In other news just got hold of 1984 and am looking forward to it. Grin

Will update thread tonight Wink

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July 15, 2011, 06:04:13 PM
 #23

Having lurked in your threads I find myself entirely ill equipped and my ignorance outright embarrasses me within this field and so onto my request or should I say plea.

Are you looking to be a victim of groupthink? In a nutshell: "The primary socially negative cost of groupthink is the loss of individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking."

Considering the source, this has got to be the funniest post on this board. Kudos.

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July 15, 2011, 06:16:46 PM
 #24

Considering the source, this has got to be the funniest post on this board. Kudos.

The irony of your own posts is totally lost on you.

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July 15, 2011, 06:23:41 PM
 #25

Considering the source, this has got to be the funniest post on this board. Kudos.

The irony of your own posts is totally lost on you.

I don't care how anyone thinks, so long as they stop pointing a gun in my face and forcing me to pay for shit I don't want.

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July 15, 2011, 06:27:13 PM
 #26

I don't care how anyone things, so long as they stop pointing a gun in my face and forcing me to pay for shit I don't want.

The above remark might reasonably be classified as a 'fringe' belief. You can counter by saying we are all brainwashed. As I said, the original poster is in for a good selection of groupthink book recommendations.

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July 15, 2011, 06:33:20 PM
 #27

I don't care how anyone things, so long as they stop pointing a gun in my face and forcing me to pay for shit I don't want.

The above remark might reasonably be classified as a 'fringe' belief. You can counter by saying we are all brainwashed. As I said, the original poster is in for a good selection of groupthink book recommendations.

I agree with 1984 and Brave New World and also suggest Animal Farm by George Orwell and Farenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury.

Oh yeah. Definitely books that encourage the reader to think like everyone else.  Roll Eyes

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July 15, 2011, 06:40:47 PM
 #28

No i believe I’m aiming for a loss of individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking.

Now please go shit up another thread because I actually want to learn and make my own judgments in as much as my group thinking brainwashed mind will let me anyway.
Or even better why don’t you recommend a non-groupthink book for me/others to read so we can get back on the rails.


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July 15, 2011, 06:51:52 PM
 #29

I agree with 1984 and Brave New World and also suggest Animal Farm by George Orwell and Farenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury.

Oh yeah. Definitely books that encourage the reader to think like everyone else.  Roll Eyes

Yep. Those books are standard high school reading material. They offer nothing new. But they all reinforce the notion that's where it's at. Yeah, man! Read those, and you've graduated to critical thinking! Down with government! Yeah, man, I now possess all that I need to argue effectively on an Internet forum!

My suggestion is, once you've got your anti-government reading out of the way, proceed to learn about the complex menagerie of issues that plague the world today, which expands beyond the right to privacy, the right to knowledge, and so forth. As an example, take whatever message you want from Bradbury's book, and go exploit that opportunity to read beyond the cult recommendations you'll find from the groupthink present here.


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July 15, 2011, 07:17:42 PM
 #30

No i believe I’m aiming for a loss of individual creativity, uniqueness, and independent thinking.

Now please go shit up another thread because I actually want to learn and make my own judgments in as much as my group thinking brainwashed mind will let me anyway.
Or even better why don’t you recommend a non-groupthink book for me/others to read so we can get back on the rails.

Rewilding North America: A Vision For Conservation In The 21St Century
http://www.amazon.com/Rewilding-North-America-Conservation-Century/dp/1559630612/

Entering Space: Creating a Spacefaring Civilization
http://www.amazon.com/Entering-Space-Creating-Spacefaring-Civilization/dp/1585420360/

The Conscious Mind: In Search of a Fundamental Theory
http://www.amazon.com/Conscious-Mind-Search-Fundamental-Philosophy/dp/0195117891/

The Dominant Animal: Human Evolution and the Environment
http://www.amazon.com/Dominant-Animal-Human-Evolution-Environment/dp/1597260975/

Valuing the Earth: Economics, Ecology, Ethics
http://www.amazon.com/Valuing-Earth-Economics-Ecology-Ethics/dp/0262540681/

Sweet Dreams: Philosophical Obstacles to a Science of Consciousness
http://www.amazon.com/Sweet-Dreams-Philosophical-Obstacles-Consciousness/dp/0262541912/

Twilight of the Mammoths:: Ice Age Extinctions and the Rewilding of America
http://www.amazon.com/Twilight-Mammoths-Extinctions-Rewilding-Environments/dp/0520252438/

After the Ice Age: The Return of Life to Glaciated North America
http://www.amazon.com/After-Ice-Age-Glaciated-America/dp/0226668126/

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myrkul
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July 15, 2011, 07:37:08 PM
 #31

Huh. Those are all books encouraging you to think in a specific pattern, and suggesting specific opinions.
The irony of your own posts is totally lost on you.

Indeed.

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ascent
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July 15, 2011, 07:42:11 PM
 #32

Huh. Those are all books encouraging you to think in a specific pattern, and suggesting specific opinions.

No, actually you're wrong. Zubrin's book is almost antithetical to those of Foreman's. Furthermore, the study of consciousness is an expansion beyond thinking just about political issues. And furthermore, if you study Chalmers and Dennett, then you might read their takes on the Singularity, which leads you in directions that are again different from, say ideas proposed by Daly.

If you wish to continue discourse with me, try harder. You still haven't bothered reading anything I've recommended to you. On the other hand, I read what you recommended, and we subsequently discovered that you weren't even familiar with the material you recommended.

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V4Vendettas
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July 15, 2011, 07:49:38 PM
 #33



Almost back on track...so close.

I will be reading everything thats been posted thus far.

Thanks all.

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July 15, 2011, 07:55:27 PM
 #34

I read what you recommended

Have you?

Who then, is saved from the collapse of the secret prison in "Alongside Night"?

And to be honest, I wasn't even aware there was a paper. I was only aware of the concept (which has developed a great deal since that was written, if the excerpts you used are any indication.)

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AyeYo
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July 15, 2011, 07:56:12 PM
 #35

Huh. Those are all books encouraging you to think in a specific pattern, and suggesting specific opinions.


You're like one of those emo kid "rebels" that's just so hardcore and individualist.... exactly like every other emo kid.


Groupthink is groupthink, it matters not whether your group is outside of the norm or not.

Enjoying the dose of reality or getting a laugh out of my posts? Feel free to toss me a penny or two, everyone else seems to be doing it! 1Kn8NqvbCC83zpvBsKMtu4sjso5PjrQEu1
myrkul
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July 15, 2011, 08:01:33 PM
 #36

Huh. Those are all books encouraging you to think in a specific pattern, and suggesting specific opinions.


You're like one of those emo kid "rebels" that's just so hardcore and individualist.... exactly like every other emo kid.


Groupthink is groupthink, it matters not whether your group is outside of the norm or not.

Ever think to wonder where that word, 'Groupthink' comes from?

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July 15, 2011, 08:17:55 PM
 #37


Endgame: Volumes I and II - Derrick Jensen

Volume I: The Problem of Civilization
http://books.google.com/books?id=CSsfg3325iEC&printsec=frontcover&dq=endgame&hl=en&ei=pZ8gToDsO8_fsQLyw-TKAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Volume II: Resistence
http://books.google.com/books?id=rNPtAAAAMAAJ&q=inauthor:%22Derrick+Jensen%22&dq=inauthor:%22Derrick+Jensen%22&hl=en&ei=4J8gTqGFH43DsQLanOG_Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CFgQ6AEwCTgK

--

Teaching to Transgress: Education as The Practice of Freedom - bell hooks
http://books.google.com/books?id=_8bBQgAACAAJ&dq=teaching+to+transgress&hl=en&src=bmrr&ei=_J8gTuijEYSJsQLkquXGAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA

--

The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness: Erich Fromm
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Anatomy_of_Human_Destructiveness.html?id=YjR5Ve-zTcYC

--

Anarchism: A Very Short Introduction
http://books.google.com/books?id=HwEQahNlPmkC&printsec=frontcover&dq=anarchism+very+short&hl=en&ei=OKAgTvz1DsGjsQKJivHMAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

--

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July 15, 2011, 08:26:11 PM
 #38

No, actually you're wrong. Zubrin's book is almost antithetical to those of Foreman's. Furthermore, the study of consciousness is an expansion beyond thinking just about political issues. And furthermore, if you study Chalmers and Dennett, then you might read their takes on the Singularity, which leads you in directions that are again different from, say ideas proposed by Daly.

Never said they suggested the same opinion, but that each book says 'Think this way'

1984, Animal farm, and Brave New World all say 'Don't think this way, think for yourself'

So, which set of books is groupthink?

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ascent
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July 16, 2011, 04:12:52 AM
 #39

No, actually you're wrong. Zubrin's book is almost antithetical to those of Foreman's. Furthermore, the study of consciousness is an expansion beyond thinking just about political issues. And furthermore, if you study Chalmers and Dennett, then you might read their takes on the Singularity, which leads you in directions that are again different from, say ideas proposed by Daly.

Never said they suggested the same opinion, but that each book says 'Think this way'

1984, Animal farm, and Brave New World all say 'Don't think this way, think for yourself'

So, which set of books is groupthink?

Considering the larger vocal group present here (the libertarians) are seemingly all recommending the same stuff, I'd say 1984, Animal Farm and Brave New World are the set of books qualifying as groupthink. But those are all worthwhile books, so by all means, read them.

But once you're comfortable that you can think for yourself, you're going to need some ideas, opinions, and specific knowledge to think about, thus my recommendations. As I hope you're aware, thought does not exist in a vacuum - one needs material to cogitate upon. It would be an awful shame to assume that the knowledge, musings and ideas presented within the texts I presented are redundant to any knowledge you already have.

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July 16, 2011, 04:14:41 AM
 #40


Those are some excellent recommendations. I was tempted to mention them myself.

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