SEC Charges Bitcoin Savings and Trust (BTCST) as Ponzi Scheme

[velacreations]

Also, I'd like to point out that between my "obnoxiously stupid" AKA "right on the money" post BASIC-MINING has rebounded from the panic sell (down to .13!) back up to .4525 (+.0525 from pre-panic!). I'm sure I'll see creativex back here thanking Burnside for the boost in value, right? Right?  

Man, that would have been great to buy at that low, right?

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[canth]

+1 on the keeping calm. This is a discussion about how to respond and stay ahead of regulatory concerns.

As far as the market dips, take a look at the volume. Literally a few dozen BTC were traded at far below market values. That's not a massive selloff - just a few small investors panicking. We're not in some crisis situation so there's no need to act like things are on fire.

I for one appreciate the open discourse, Burnside.

[velacreations]

+1 on the keeping calm. This is a discussion about how to respond and stay ahead of regulatory concerns.

As far as the market dips, take a look at the volume. Literally a few dozen BTC were traded at far below market values. That's not a massive selloff - just a few small investors panicking. We're not in some crisis situation so there's no need to act like things are on fire.

I for one appreciate the open discourse, Burnside.

I appreciate the dip in prices, too.

[kleeck]

Also, I'd like to point out that between my "obnoxiously stupid" AKA "right on the money" post BASIC-MINING has rebounded from the panic sell (down to .13!) back up to .4525 (+.0525 from pre-panic!). I'm sure I'll see creativex back here thanking Burnside for the boost in value, right? Right?  

Man, that would have been great to buy at that low, right?

No joke. I almost owned some BASIC.

Almost.

[ajk]

wow

Markets move, "bro". News moves things up and down. If you run a security you HAVE to be able to handle that without lashing out at everyone who drops some news that might scare an investor. It is obnoxious to have to read an asshat complain about the market behaving as it chooses. It's even more obnoxious that this individual runs a damn security! It's immature and laughable.

Also, I'd like to point out that between my "obnoxiously stupid" AKA "right on the money" post BASIC-MINING has rebounded from the panic sell (down to .13!) back up to .4525 (+.0525 from pre-panic!). I'm sure I'll see creativex back here thanking Burnside for the boost in value, right? Right? 

Wow. Markets Move thats great you sound like you know what your talking about when it comes to trading, there is a difference between news and dropping speculation if Burnside had definite answers about what he was doing without having to say, " I need to contact lawyers" then it would be a different story

also Wow, rebound? the guys share price was much higher than .45 previous to all the unnecessarily CAUSED PANIC, this was not news this was induced

you are so smart 

[canth]

Heh. It really sounds like you followed the advice in your signature and ended up being the fool. Maybe a better quote to follow would be something from Mr Buffett:

“We simply attempt to be fearful when others are greedy and to be greedy only when others are fearful.”

[redbeans2012]

I don't blame people for selling their securities so they can keep their hands on bitcoins.   Lots of us remember the GLBSE and it sucks having everything in limbo when things get shut down. 

[ajk]

everyone knows that one nor do I think it is good, it doesnt suit my style of trading hence why I have the quote listed

Ya man definitely I would love to capitalize off the situation (being absolutely sarcastic) for the whole like 20 BTC you can buy without blasting the share price, the market is extremely non liquid for both cog and bASIC

if kleek or whatever said something useful without bashing creavtix for doing his job and doing nothing wrong but speaking out when Burnside dropped "news" he could have kept behind closed doors til he knew more then I wouldnt have said anything, Burnside should realize the power he has considering he is the owner of BTCT but obviously didnt think about the effect of the weight of his words (or did he?)

either way the situation could have been handled better by Burnside and kleek can enjoy expressing his opinion while I express mine

[tinus42]

luckily I am no longer living in the US. the EU countries for now seem to be much more accommodating to these businesses.

Depends where you live. The Netherlands is very subservient to multinational business interests. They close down "pirate sites" for Hollywood's sake but allow predatory practices by banks and multinationals and offer them cheap tax incentives.

[burnside]

Wow. Markets Move thats great you sound like you know what your talking about when it comes to trading, there is a difference between news and dropping speculation if Burnside had definite answers about what he was doing without having to say, " I need to contact lawyers" then it would be a different story

also Wow, rebound? the guys share price was much higher than .45 previous to all the unnecessarily CAUSED PANIC, this was not news this was induced

you are so smart 

BTC-TC is first and foremost a community exchange.  Open discourse is going to happen and I primarily respond when and where necessary to reduce the speculation, not increase it.  You have to understand that the strength of BTC-TC is largely within this process... that is, we discuss things and generate ideas BEFORE taking action.  It's easy for one man to make huge mistakes acting entirely of his own accord.  Open discussion with a group of level-headed individuals is worth it's weight in gold.

Also, If I recall correctly, I suggested that rather than doing anything knee-jerk we would explore our options and do everything we could to act responsibly.  Imagine what the next few days would have been like if I had not responded at all to the post suggesting that we need to shut the door "immediately".

There is no need to panic.

The SEC is not going to pursue some guy mining coins in his garage and, barring fraud, the chance that they will pursue an exchange, or anyone at all, is very small.

Exposure to Regulation D is not new, it's been there all along, and anyone paying attention has known that. But the regulations around crowdfunding will soon change, and it's extremely unlikely that any sort of enforcement will happen before they are sorted out. Not to mention, without evidence of fraud, any enforcement is likely to come in the form of a cease and desist letter, not criminal charges.

Burnside, I'd urge you to stop speculating in public about what you may or may not do, as you are needlessly spooking the markets. Take some time to think about reducing your risk, get some advice, and come up with a plan that can be implemented over time without permanently damaging the exchange.

May cooler heads prevail!

Thank you, very good post.

[ajk]

Why are you asking the BTC community who here has any real advice to give that can actually be taken with credit and not a grain of salt

im just saying that the situation could have been handled better with people who have more knowledge on the subject than a bunch of speculative investors

[burnside]

Why are you asking the BTC community who here has any real advice to give that can actually be taken with credit and not a grain of salt

im just saying that the situation could have been handled better with people who have more knowledge on the subject than a bunch of speculative investors

Eh, there's more here than meets the eye if you know where to look.

And where do you suggest we go to find the people who have more knowledge on the subject?  A person could spend weeks interviewing local lawyers and not find one who'd heard of Bitcoin, let alone has practiced law around it.  Even then, you almost need a team of lawyers, as we're all human and there's a risk of missing something important.

Still, I do see your point and will try to be more careful going forward.

[kleeck]

Why are you asking the BTC community who here has any real advice to give that can actually be taken with credit and not a grain of salt

im just saying that the situation could have been handled better with people who have more knowledge on the subject than a bunch of speculative investors

No, you're whining, plain and simple. It's outrageous that you would come onto a forum made for discussing securities and events around securities and ridicule someone who is discussing a major event that has a direct impact on BTC securities. You're a joke and you're annoying.

Continuing to say the same thing over and over will not change that.

To cheap shares! 

[ajk]

Eh, there's more here than meets the eye if you know where to look.

And where do you suggest we go to find the people who have more knowledge on the subject?  A person could spend weeks interviewing local lawyers and not find one who'd heard of Bitcoin, let alone has practiced law around it.  Even then, you almost need a team of lawyers, as we're all human and there's a risk of missing something important.

Still, I do see your point and will try to be more careful going forward.

Ive no clue but it also isnt my responsibility since I do not operate or own an exchange, obviously this wasnt a foreseeable circumstance hence why we are in the current situation trying to pick apart the pieces, I appreciate you taking the time to respond and that things will be handled with better care,

Really hope the exchange doesnt have to do anything and can continue as is but that is just hope

[Mabsark]

Wow. Markets Move thats great you sound like you know what your talking about when it comes to trading, there is a difference between news and dropping speculation if Burnside had definite answers about what he was doing without having to say, " I need to contact lawyers" then it would be a different story

also Wow, rebound? the guys share price was much higher than .45 previous to all the unnecessarily CAUSED PANIC, this was not news this was induced

you are so smart 

BTC-TC is first and foremost a community exchange.  Open discourse is going to happen and I primarily respond when and where necessary to reduce the speculation, not increase it.  You have to understand that the strength of BTC-TC is largely within this process... that is, we discuss things and generate ideas BEFORE taking action.  It's easy for one man to make huge mistakes acting entirely of his own accord.  Open discussion with a group of level-headed individuals is worth it's weight in gold.

Also, If I recall correctly, I suggested that rather than doing anything knee-jerk we would explore our options and do everything we could to act responsibly.  Imagine what the next few days would have been like if I had not responded at all to the post suggesting that we need to shut the door "immediately".

There is no need to panic.

The SEC is not going to pursue some guy mining coins in his garage and, barring fraud, the chance that they will pursue an exchange, or anyone at all, is very small.

Exposure to Regulation D is not new, it's been there all along, and anyone paying attention has known that. But the regulations around crowdfunding will soon change, and it's extremely unlikely that any sort of enforcement will happen before they are sorted out. Not to mention, without evidence of fraud, any enforcement is likely to come in the form of a cease and desist letter, not criminal charges.

Burnside, I'd urge you to stop speculating in public about what you may or may not do, as you are needlessly spooking the markets. Take some time to think about reducing your risk, get some advice, and come up with a plan that can be implemented over time without permanently damaging the exchange.

May cooler heads prevail!

Thank you, very good post.

Your response basically said that you would most likely block US citizens from using the site. Because of your statement, a load of US citizens  sold their shares in a panic. Your statement was directly responsible for that.

Unless you make some sort of statement to reassure US users instead of scaring the shit out of them, you may as well kiss your site goodbye.

[ajk]

No, you're whining, plain and simple. It's outrageous that you would come onto a forum made for discussing securities and events around securities and ridicule someone who is discussing a major event that has a direct impact on BTC securities. You're a joke and you're annoying.

Continuing to say the same thing over and over will not change that.

To cheap shares! 

Alright cockblock. enjoy making your pennies off the ill liquid securities instead of investing in them when no one else was, gonna pop my ignore cherry after this so congratulations to you,

heres why I even said anything to you, You shat on Creavtix who doesnt deserve it considering he had just lost money, you essentially were kicking a man when hes down and I do not appreciate that hence why I spoke up,

You are cool. Goodbye

[SoylentCreek]

My official gameplan for this evening:

[redbeans2012]

Your response basically said that you would most likely block US citizens from using the site. Because of your statement, a load of US citizens  sold their shares in a panic. Your statement was directly responsible for that.

Unless you make some sort of statement to reassure US users instead of scaring the shit out of them, you may as well kiss your site goodbye.

+1

[burnside]

Your response basically said that you would most likely block US citizens from using the site. Because of your statement, a load of US citizens  sold their shares in a panic. Your statement was directly responsible for that.

Unless you make some sort of statement to reassure US users instead of scaring the shit out of them, you may as well kiss your site goodbye.

Maybe I could have been clearer, but maybe you just missed this:

- I'd do it over 30 days.  (for 30 days you could buy and sell)
- US (non-issuer) accounts would always be able to sell after that.  The block would be on buying.  This way we don't screw anyone over.
- I'd have an override in the accounts section saying "I do solemnly swear that I am not a resident of the US" for people that get mistakenly detected as being US residents or who pass their traffic through US tor nodes or proxies.  (Why you'd do that is beyond me... just makes you an NSA target.)  You'd have to e-sign to get the block lifted from your account.

This is by no means set it stone, don't get too jumpy yet if you're in the US.    I've been discussing things with Ukyo, as he's been working on some legal approaches to liberating Bitcoin exchanges and I want to make sure we don't harm anyone unnecessarily as we bring things into compliance.

If you read that and jumped off a bridge then I'm going to have to call it natural selection.

[ar9]

Wow.

Burnside...
Not a cool thing to do as a site operator.