SEC Charges Bitcoin Savings and Trust (BTCST) as Ponzi Scheme

[burnside]

Wow.

Burnside...
Not a cool thing to do as a site operator.

I'm gonna take a break for a few hours.

I suggest everyone chills a bit. 

[velacreations]

yeah, he didn't say that, so stop acting like you had a valid reason to panic when someone is just discussing a HYPOTHETICAL

And, IMO, this whole discussion is completely overreacting to something that is unlikely to happen, ie. the SEC taking notice of bitcoin exchanges.

But, thanks for the panic, I do appreciate cheap share prices, guys!  

[ffssixtynine]

I thought from your previous posts that you were an experienced, level headed business person, but the above suggests otherwise. It's an incredibly irresponsible, reactionary, stream of nonsense.

I posted that *after* engaging a lawyer to discuss SEC exposure to exchanges, funds, and how to mitigate the risk. I don't have a fund but I am worried about my money being in exchanges and assets/shares, and I was vaguely considering a fund.

Everything else I posted was before.

It is also based on the assumption of Burnside's personal or server exposure in the US (based on his own concerns expressed here).

If he doesn't, the situ is rather different and risks much lower as the US couldn't really touch him.

[btcdrak]

@burnside - please put this all in perspective. The SEC has rightly charged a fraudster. That's a good thing. You are not a fraudster nor do you have the intent. You are not in their gun sights. As for the whole US thing - it's simple, just do what S.DICE. You should relocate your server ANYWAY, just like any gambling sites.

You DO need to create confidence because there is clearly evidence of panic on BTC-TC atm. So please release a statement soon and don't paint doom. I would gladly take over your site, I am not afraid to run a system like that nor get involved with all the legal stuff (and I can code to boot).

[AngelSky]

Eh, there's more here than meets the eye if you know where to look.

And where do you suggest we go to find the people who have more knowledge on the subject?  A person could spend weeks interviewing local lawyers and not find one who'd heard of Bitcoin, let alone has practiced law around it.  Even then, you almost need a team of lawyers, as we're all human and there's a risk of missing something important.

Still, I do see your point and will try to be more careful going forward.

You're actually running a business (a big one in the btc world) and your questions/messages are read here. I understand that you need to communicate with the bitcoin community about what's comming next and get advices, but maybe you can do that in a more PR way like any other prof. business. Your words have a weight because people have BTCs on your website, and some of them have a lot.

Please, next time you communicate, think about the impact your words will have.

Patrick

EDIT: even if I agree with you about the "natural selection"

[Pale Phoenix]

Burnside has said that he's going to take a step back, get advice, and evaluate the situation. He's not making any changes or planning to block US users at this time, so perhaps we can just leave it at that for now. Stocks seem to be in recovery mode... everything will be fine.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

yeah, he didn't say that, so stop acting like you had a valid reason to panic when someone is just discussing a HYPOTHETICAL

And, IMO, this whole discussion is completely overreacting to something that is unlikely to happen, ie. the SEC taking notice of bitcoin exchanges.

But, thanks for the panic, I do appreciate cheap share prices, guys!  

You are delusional if you don't think the SEC is reading this thread right now.

They regulate securities exchanges.

[KCBitcoin]

Burnside has said that he's going to take a step back, get advice, and evaluate the situation. He's not making any changes or planning to block US users at this time, so perhaps we can just leave it at that for now. Stocks seem to be in recovery mode... everything will be fine.

+1

[usagi]

Burnside has said that he's going to take a step back, get advice, and evaluate the situation. He's not making any changes or planning to block US users at this time, so perhaps we can just leave it at that for now. Stocks seem to be in recovery mode... everything will be fine.

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3vadh5/

[freedomno1]

Move the servers to Canada Eh

[stslimited]

a foreign exchange has no liability with the SEC, its the companies listed on them. ISSUING securities is what the SEC watches

that being said, I've warned US issuers (BASIC-MINING) about this issue weeks and months ago.

Keep the exchange open, or you'll lose all your market share to someone that understands this stuff (me.)

Oh your computers are on a cloud server in the US? Stop your FUD and tell me exactly what part of the securities act of 1933 and securities exchange act of 1934 you are concerned about.

[superduh]

yeah, he didn't say that, so stop acting like you had a valid reason to panic when someone is just discussing a HYPOTHETICAL

And, IMO, this whole discussion is completely overreacting to something that is unlikely to happen, ie. the SEC taking notice of bitcoin exchanges.

But, thanks for the panic, I do appreciate cheap share prices, guys!  

You are delusional if you don't think the SEC is reading this thread right now.

They regulate securities exchanges.

Security exchanges operating in the USA. this is 100% out of their jurisdiction. however, i fully support SEC going after FRAUDSTERS. scammers and fraudsters and certain manipulators and ponzi people should all be behind bars regardless of what country they reside in and what organization puts them behind bars.

[dexX7]

If I recall correctly, the SEC was almost instantly involved in this since the pirateat40 thing blew up.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/willardfoxton2/100007836/bitcoin-pirate-scandal-sec-steps-in-amid-allegations-that-the-whole-thing-was-a-ponzi-scheme/

http://www.bitcointrading.com/forum/talk-bitcoin/sec-investigating-btcst-pirateat40/

They were going after him in 2012. And now, after a year, they address this incident again. Unexpected? Not really.

I'm not in the position to say "calm down, guys", but at least I can say: "don't overreact, please".

[onecent]

People: What I ask for is a petition to our Bitcoin stock exchanges to allow stocks download to our PCs.

Petition to Bitcoin stock exchanges:

I ask you to find a decentralized solution for investors to be able to store our stock shares offline, in case of catastrophe and if this site goes down.

One possibility: Investigate "colored BitcoinX" to download stock shares to our computers and store offline, like Bitcoins. It allows to "paint" fractional bitcoins into IOUs, stocks and financial assets and will write our asset possessions right into the block-chain.
Another option, is to develop a new block-chain for stocks and other assets.

This will greatly reduce shareholder risks, -and- allow investors to invest more money.
(The goal is to proof the exchanges vs. government regulatory attacks, hackers, and to keep our freedom)

-Technologov

very good idea, espcially for those exchanges run by Americans

nice idea, everything related to btc should be decentralize, if the stock exchange and currency exchange are running as a client on computers or cellphones, there is no way the gov has the chance to shut them down

[Exocyst]

nice idea, everything related to btc should be decentralize, if the stock exchange and currency exchange are running as a client on computers or cellphones, there is no way the gov has the chance to shut them down

Your idea is nice as well but there are practical/technical concerns to be addressed:

• Who pays for the development of said decentralized securities exchange?
• Who moderates offerings to reduce likely scams? (A proof of stake voting system might work but is subject to manipulation)
• How are transactions secured? (Are we looking at yet another alt-coin?)
• How do you handle rapid order creation/destruction/fulfillment?
• How do you facilitate rapid order fulfillment when transactions consist of entities with different temporal constraints? (in other words, how do you create a p2p marketplace where users can trade BTC for securities when BTC can only be securely transferred over a period of 30—60 min depending on your risk tolerance?)

I am wholeheartedly behind the creation of said decentralized securities exchange but there are serious technical hurdles to be overcome.

[dance4x]

Couldn't Open Transactions be used for issuing assets in the future?

[MonkeyMarcel]

There is no need to panic.

The SEC is not going to pursue some guy mining coins in his garage and, barring fraud, the chance that they will pursue an exchange, or anyone at all, is very small.

Exposure to Regulation D is not new, it's been there all along, and anyone paying attention has known that. But the regulations around crowdfunding will soon change, and it's extremely unlikely that any sort of enforcement will happen before they are sorted out. Not to mention, without evidence of fraud, any enforcement is likely to come in the form of a cease and desist letter, not criminal charges.

Burnside, I'd urge you to stop speculating in public about what you may or may not do, as you are needlessly spooking the markets. Take some time to think about reducing your risk, get some advice, and come up with a plan that can be implemented over time without permanently damaging the exchange.

May cooler heads prevail!

What a boss reply.

[lunarboy]

Couldn't Open Transactions be used for issuing assets in the future?

I think Open transactions can't get here soon enough.
decentralise the BTC exchanges and decentralise all BTC denominated assets.

Game over jurisdiction.

[Lohoris]

The answer so far as I can tell is that no, I cannot use my bitcoin in the real world.  I cannot hold them, I cannot buy starbucks with them, I cannot trade them at any shop in town that I am aware of.  I cannot call my broker and buy them or buy anything tangible using them.  For me and 99.9% of americans they're still an imaginary experiment.

This line of reasoning is quite weak, since it's easy to exchange them for USD and then spend the USD.
You can also use them directly to buy prepaid credit cards...

[foxykah]

Couldn't Open Transactions be used for issuing assets in the future?

I think Open transactions can't get here soon enough.
decentralise the BTC exchanges and decentralise all BTC denominated assets.

Game over jurisdiction.

+1, but the implementation of this decentralisation is way beyond our capacities, the creation of such a system would rival that of the BTC system in terms of complexity.