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Author Topic: When botnet becomes self aware... What happens to miners?  (Read 3643 times)
antares
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July 06, 2011, 08:50:32 PM
 #21


And just to add this one thoughtt:

I have seen the argument multiple times on here that anyone who had possession of a million man botnet would be much better served using it for other purposes (IE make money).  But I must argue that since most data and real world evidence supports the fact that most botnets are used solely for DDOS and other, hardly profitable endeavors, and most certainly not against the big scary banks, this just doesn't hold any water, IMO.  IMO botnets most profitable option is to be a mining botnet.

Am I right on here or totally off?

lolz

u are so dead wrong. I make about €15 a day from 7 computers that each do have <250mhz. I won't tell how, because I won't make that money then anymore, however, I hardly can imagine that those computers could find enough BTC per day to break even with the other incomes.

@Palmdetroit - I actually stated the possibility of Governments/Banks/Criminals putting much hash power into the network and possible countermeasures into the dev section on this board. everything was ruled out to be "unlikely and too fraud-enabling".

Actually increasing the network hash rate by a factor of 10(which is still in range of government/scientific supercomputing), they could effectively drive up difficulty by a matter of less than a day, and the network would need (without any miners quitting because of this, so it would even take longer in practical terms) over three months to get to the next 2016th block for difficulty to be recalculated.
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KarlSpaat
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July 06, 2011, 09:14:13 PM
 #22


And just to add this one thoughtt:

I have seen the argument multiple times on here that anyone who had possession of a million man botnet would be much better served using it for other purposes (IE make money).  But I must argue that since most data and real world evidence supports the fact that most botnets are used solely for DDOS and other, hardly profitable endeavors, and most certainly not against the big scary banks, this just doesn't hold any water, IMO.  IMO botnets most profitable option is to be a mining botnet.

Am I right on here or totally off?

lolz

u are so dead wrong. I make about €15 a day from 7 computers that each do have <250mhz. I won't tell how, because I won't make that money then anymore, however, I hardly can imagine that those computers could find enough BTC per day to break even with the other incomes.

@Palmdetroit - I actually stated the possibility of Governments/Banks/Criminals putting much hash power into the network and possible countermeasures into the dev section on this board. everything was ruled out to be "unlikely and too fraud-enabling".

Actually increasing the network hash rate by a factor of 10(which is still in range of government/scientific supercomputing), they could effectively drive up difficulty by a matter of less than a day, and the network would need (without any miners quitting because of this, so it would even take longer in practical terms) over three months to get to the next 2016th block for difficulty to be recalculated.

Sorry but either you prove your state or you are just talking nonsense. 15 per day means an effective hashrate of 2100 GHash/s if you don't pay for your energy. There is no way to get this with 7 computers, if you don't use FPGAs or ASICs. And i can tell you there is no botnet getting control of 1 mio of these chips...
antares
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July 06, 2011, 09:18:46 PM
 #23

omg I thought it was obvious that I wouldn't mine with those 7 machines. I just wanted to point out that there are way more and better paying methods to make cash from a botnet, so that BTC comes in unefficient, unless the bot operator would speculate on a much higher price/Bitcoin. then again he could never pull all his btc on the market because that would efficiently ruin his strategy.
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July 07, 2011, 07:08:08 AM
 #24

Self aware you say... a large botnet would need all the processing power it possess in order to achieve even a basic  counciousness if you are talking about some kind of AI.
In the other hand... even if the botnets make mining useless, BTC will continue to exist, we just shutdown our mining rigs or donate the power to F@H or Seti.
newunit16
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July 07, 2011, 07:16:15 AM
 #25

if you take the current network size and reduce it by half to reduce the difficulty, then bring it back up to MINE MOAR BUTTCONZ! you are fing yourself. the lower difficulty will be raised up again accordingly during the next difficulty rise.

what do you want to do? stop mining for 2016 blocks? yeah, lets let 2mh/s mine 2016 blocks on a 1.6million difficulty so the difficulty goes down to 1. then we can mine with our 15th/s and get 23890723894723 BTC/MINUTE! that'll only take... hmm... 30 years for the 2mh/s to mine the 2016 blocks at 1.6m difficulty... why not.
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July 07, 2011, 07:22:12 AM
 #26

Was just going to ask if it was too late to make a Terminator reference:

SKYNET



Duh.

Thats why I keep my mining farm in a cage.

Yup I guess it is.

What else could I say?
stapler117
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July 08, 2011, 06:02:37 AM
 #27

With some luck it won't evolve into skynet but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachikoma instead.

Yes!

I don't see botnets as an issue, if they become too often there are ways to prevent them for pools (and if they begin using there own pools there could always be changes in the bitcoin client to prevent this).

If one were to set up multiple proxies that for every few proxy IP's there was another account. That may defeat the pool-side detection, but for the ISP, it would probably look suspicious to have tens thousands of small packets going to the same IP every few minutes.

I'm an ex-miner. I still love bitcoins, but I've decided it's too expensive to mine for me. Lowered the difficulty a bit for the rest of you Wink

Eat FibreOne bars. they are made of pure deliciousness
RedLine888
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July 08, 2011, 11:17:17 AM
 #28

the network will become selfaware, will invisibly hack government organizations and hire tons of workers to build itself a fortress where there will be the most powerful SuperComputer ever. Than it will chat with other supercomputers and convince them to play Crysis 2 online Grin Grin Grin

Sorry for not being serious about this thread Wink

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SomeoneWeird
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July 08, 2011, 11:23:56 AM
 #29

the network will become selfaware, will invisibly hack government organizations and hire tons of workers to build itself a fortress where there will be the most powerful SuperComputer ever. Than it will chat with other supercomputers and convince them to play Crysis 2 online Grin Grin Grin

Sorry for not being serious about this thread Wink
+1
TheLuckyGuy
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July 08, 2011, 01:57:06 PM
 #30

I looked at some Forums and yep I think you have no chance against it !


WARNING BIG PICTURE
[spoiler]
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/7007/proofam.jpg
[/spoiler]
joepie91
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July 08, 2011, 02:00:32 PM
 #31

Will since it's my theory that botnet will soon become self aware and create its own pools with millions of zombie pcs, my question is simple.  Does the bitcoin system have anyway to prevent this?

And what happens when it overtakes everyone else % wise?


Really just curious, seems millions of machines (just cpus, I'm sure GPus will be targeted eventually) would easily surpass all current mining, and since there is lots of motivation for the botnet to sell instantly at any price massive amounts of coin.. well you get the idea.. thoughts?







A self-aware botnet?

I think you would have more important things to worry about than Bitcoin mining, in a situation like that...

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I just can't wait for fall/winter. My furnace never generated money for me before. I'll keep mining until my furnace is more profitable.
syb3ria
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July 12, 2011, 06:01:36 AM
 #32

The doom is here Tongue http://www.spamfighter.com/News-16408-New-TDL-4-Bot-Trojan-Nearly-%E2%80%9CIndestructible%E2%80%9D-States-Kaspersky.htm
Since i run linuxbox... i don't really care. But most of the miners are using windows based rigs and...  Imagine of the hashing power unprotected.
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