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Author Topic: When botnet becomes self aware... What happens to miners?  (Read 3642 times)
Palmdetroit
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July 05, 2011, 08:13:16 AM
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Will since it's my theory that botnet will soon become self aware and create its own pools with millions of zombie pcs, my question is simple.  Does the bitcoin system have anyway to prevent this?

And what happens when it overtakes everyone else % wise?


Really just curious, seems millions of machines (just cpus, I'm sure GPus will be targeted eventually) would easily surpass all current mining, and since there is lots of motivation for the botnet to sell instantly at any price massive amounts of coin.. well you get the idea.. thoughts?







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July 05, 2011, 08:15:25 AM
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Will since it's my theory that botnet will soon become self aware and create its own pools with millions of zombie pcs, my question is simple.  Does the bitcoin system have anyway to prevent this?

And what happens when it overtakes everyone else % wise?


Really just curious, seems millions of machines (just cpus, I'm sure GPus will be targeted eventually) would easily surpass all current mining, and since there is lots of motivation for the botnet to sell instantly at any price massive amounts of coin.. well you get the idea.. thoughts?




lol. no.
V4Vendettas
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July 05, 2011, 08:24:54 AM
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SKYNET



Duh.

Thats why I keep my mining farm in a cage.

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July 05, 2011, 01:06:31 PM
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With some luck it won't evolve into skynet but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachikoma instead.
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July 05, 2011, 01:48:00 PM
 #5

SKYNET



Duh.

Thats why I keep my mining farm in a cage.

I though it was a faraday cage to avoid the EMP. Im confused now...
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July 05, 2011, 01:59:21 PM
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I don't see botnets as an issue, if they become too often there are ways to prevent them for pools (and if they begin using there own pools there could always be changes in the bitcoin client to prevent this).

What is killing mining for an average user is the hardcore users (obviously). I mean, the output from an average user in BTC no matter its worth is so ridicously low compared to someone that will own a whole mining server.
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July 05, 2011, 02:18:24 PM
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I don't see botnets as an issue, if they become too often there are ways to prevent them for pools (and if they begin using there own pools there could always be changes in the bitcoin client to prevent this).

What is killing mining for an average user is the hardcore users (obviously). I mean, the output from an average user in BTC no matter its worth is so ridicously low compared to someone that will own a whole mining server.

Dear god. I hope your trolling.
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July 05, 2011, 02:27:34 PM
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I don't see botnets as an issue, if they become too often there are ways to prevent them for pools (and if they begin using there own pools there could always be changes in the bitcoin client to prevent this).

What is killing mining for an average user is the hardcore users (obviously). I mean, the output from an average user in BTC no matter its worth is so ridicously low compared to someone that will own a whole mining server.

Dear god. I hope your trolling.

+1

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July 05, 2011, 03:59:26 PM
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Will since it's my theory that botnet will soon become self aware and create its own pools with millions of zombie pcs, my question is simple.  Does the bitcoin system have anyway to prevent this?

Some of the most capable minds working for IBM can make a computer that plays chess or Jeopardy very well.  We're a very long way from computers that have a true concept of self.  An ad hoc network put together by a bunch of people running open source software to compute SHA hashes is about as far away from self awareness as my toaster.

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July 05, 2011, 04:12:26 PM
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Will since it's my theory that botnet will soon become self aware and create its own pools with millions of zombie pcs, my question is simple.  Does the bitcoin system have anyway to prevent this?

Some of the most capable minds working for IBM can make a computer that plays chess or Jeopardy very well.  We're a very long way from computers that have a true concept of self.  An ad hoc network put together by a bunch of people running open source software to compute SHA hashes is about as far away from self awareness as my toaster.

QFFT +1
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July 05, 2011, 05:57:25 PM
 #11

How do you know you are self aware ?

You could be the figment of someone else's imagination !

everything you think you know, feel, and experience, could just be someone's big fekked up dream !!

now, where did I put that joint Huh? ahhh, it wasn't real !!!!!! ahhhh, neither am I !!!!! ahhhh, then who is typing this !!!!!!!!!!!! not me, the dreamer !?!?!?!

LOLOL
nebiki
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July 05, 2011, 06:22:19 PM
 #12

hm? descartes has said something which falsifies your statement.

You could be the figment of someone else's imagination !

if you replace "someone else's" with "my", it works, though.

edit: although i vaguely remember his "self" is described as 2 different things. idk, read meditationes de prima philosophia.

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Nirth
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July 06, 2011, 12:50:47 AM
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Dear god. I hope your trolling.

Why? I know it's self explanatory but it sucks knowing that you can't get by at all by having a card or two when there are people with 20 to 40 cards or even more running.
XIU
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July 06, 2011, 02:02:47 AM
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Dear god. I hope your trolling.

Why? I know it's self explanatory but it sucks knowing that you can't get by at all by having a card or two when there are people with 20 to 40 cards or even more running.

Well it "sucks" that people buying special hardware which costs a lot of money that they make more money, but the part about preventing that a botnet could mine for itself is ridiculous, otherwise none of the pools should be allowed...

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Cluster2k
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July 06, 2011, 07:16:03 AM
 #15

1) Can the network defend against this?
2) Botnet will be selling all btc open market prices, since cost is $0 even $.01 a btc is profit, how will this effect miners?
3) What happens when botnet>all legit miners

Someone with access to a million PCs, with maybe 10% having good graphics cards, could easily create more hashes than anyone else.  If that would happen they could do one of the following:

1. Be a nuisance on the network.  With 50%+ hashing power they can deny everyone else's transactions.

2. Generate more blocks than anyone else, but there is a limit until the next difficulty level is reached.  The network would auto adjust at the next difficulty increase.

3. Related to 2, someone could do this for lols: use a million PCs to hash and drive the difficulty level ridiculously high until the next 2016 block reset, then turn off their botnet.  Difficulty could be driven into the many millions, placing electricity costs much higher than the return per bitcoin generated.  Difficulty is only reset when the next 2016 blocks are computed.  With a difficulty level high enough, it could be a very long time until it could fall.  Anyone attempting to trade the price up would be driven back down again by the botnet owner selling his new BTCs.

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jrussell
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July 06, 2011, 08:16:23 AM
 #16

What if the botnets are used in the complete opposite way everyone is thinking now, what if they are used to bring down pools just before the new difficulty (I see last night the networks speed on http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/ went to less than 9 Thash and I think its because of btcguild). What if the botnets are just used to bring down pools before the difficulty change to drop the difficulty? and then they either mine themselves with the lower difficulty, or they bring down the difficulty for someone/people with serious farms...

Also, how does the difficulty change work? Is it "reset" every 2016 blocks or will it trend either up or down sortof like an average? And also, is it based on the networks speed over the previous 2016 blocks?

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July 06, 2011, 08:34:28 AM
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This is so great, my stomach hurts! Do you have a BC address?  Grin

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jrussell
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July 06, 2011, 08:41:55 AM
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sure do..

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 Smiley

Raoul Duke
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July 06, 2011, 09:16:04 AM
 #19

I think bot herders should start doing what the OP described... Probably they would be easier to find and be arrested when they wanted to cash out the bitcoins. Smiley

Chucksta
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July 06, 2011, 09:46:42 AM
 #20

hm? descartes has said something which falsifies your statement.

You could be the figment of someone else's imagination !

if you replace "someone else's" with "my", it works, though.

edit: although i vaguely remember his "self" is described as 2 different things. idk, read meditationes de prima philosophia.

ah, but what if I am also a figment of another's imagination ?
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