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Author Topic: should I just get used to this?  (Read 2456 times)
mishrahsigni
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July 27, 2013, 02:47:05 AM
 #1

Hi,
so i am wondering if the lack of anything that even closely resembles customer support or even semi-ethical behaviour is simply something I have to get used is I choose to play in th ebitcoins world.

** My account  (and many others) was hacked at BTCE, and their responsce was "Nope"
** Bitcoins-24 closed my account and took all my coins, and have not respoced to one request for their return
** And the latest, my double password protected account at blockchain was emptied of all bitcoins two weeks ago and my ticket asking them if anything had gone wrong is still in the "This request is awaiting assignment to a support agent" queue

I was under the impression that Blockchain was one of the more 'professional' outfits out there.

So far, the only organization that has made any effort in responding to my queries is MtGox.  in fact, they were very helpful in protecting my account after my BTCE account was hacked (as I made the mistake of using the same password on MtGox as BTCE).   

you would think that an industry already suspected my MSM of being overpopulated and driven by money laundering criminals, drug dealers, terrorists and child molesters would make SOME effort to to up their image, and not respond (if they respond) with a "yeah, sucks for you" response, even when their own incompetence is to blame.
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Ninshatamoto
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July 27, 2013, 02:50:09 AM
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I hate to say it, but I have used all three of those services without any sort of problem, is it possible that your computer has had a security breach?
mishrahsigni
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July 27, 2013, 04:31:03 AM
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I hate to say it, but I have used all three of those services without any sort of problem, is it possible that your computer has had a security breach?

I had no problem either, until I did.

isn't this like saying "hey, I also drive a car and I have never had an accident"?

I seriously doubt my heavily firewalled with encrypted FS (where my bitcoin info is) linux is compromised, but even if it was, the 2nd password on blockchain uses a virtual keyboard to thwart keyloggers.   But more to your point, I have taken steps to insure my security locally.   Really, it is just blockchain that shocks me.  BTCE has been hacked up one side and down the other (a google search will confirm this, no flames please), and bitcoin-24 was flirting with legal disaster from the beginning, so loosing money to those guys is not a big surprise.
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July 27, 2013, 05:18:19 AM
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I hate to say it, but I have used all three of those services without any sort of problem, is it possible that your computer has had a security breach?

I had no problem either, until I did.

isn't this like saying "hey, I also drive a car and I have never had an accident"?



To follow your analogy,  you've had 3 car accidents driving 3 separate cars, and I've driven those 3 cars just fine without an issue.  Not saying that I will never have an issue....just saying that I haven't yet.
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July 27, 2013, 08:01:45 AM
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Yes, you should get used to it. Or you can just choose to stop giving your decentralized cash away to strangers.
If you're so aware of the safety of information on you computer, why does it seem to be impossible to manage your own Bitcoin? Storing Bitcoin with third parties, is not something I recommend anybody with a 'heavily firewalled with encrypted FS linux'.

To get back to the car analogy. Showing of you know what side of the road you are supposed to drive on doesn't make you a good driver. And if you're such a good driver: Drive the thing yourself and don't use e-wallets.

.
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July 27, 2013, 03:23:02 PM
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It is really not right to blame victims but... Do you have a learning deficiency? Stop giving other people control and complete trust.
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July 27, 2013, 04:49:16 PM
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OP FWIW I've watched scam sites come and go. There are sites which don't fit the scam mold IMO. BTC-e, Blockchain.info, and MtGox don't fit. At the end of the day it's up to the operator(s) of the site to not cheat their clients, because there is no regulation other than what the free market itself provides.

BTC-e was hacked early on (at least that's the story we were told) and had many coins stolen. This happened to many sites, but BTC-e was one of the few that replaced the lost coins out of their own profits. They seemed to be looking longer term. This was long before they were as popular as they are now. They couldn't have been making much at the time. I've also watched their site go offline without warning from DDoS etc., a classic start to a site disappearing with coins, but they come back. They are now the biggest exchange site for mixed bitcoin/alt-coin trading, moving hundreds of thousands of dollars daily. They are clearly profiting well now. It would hurt their exchange profits to lose customers over trust issues.

Am I saying people should give them full trust? Heck no. I don't say that about any exchange. Any site can pack up at anytime and disappear. That's why I've always said never keep more coins than you can afford to lose in any online service for the longer term. However, you can look at track record to get an idea of how much trust a service might receive. Same thing applies to Gox and Blockchain.info.
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July 27, 2013, 06:44:48 PM
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In short, the answer to your question is yes. However, just as the American West has been mostly tamed, the Bitcoin industry will eventually become mostly regulated, and the consumer experience will improve (at a huge cost, of course).

Regarding Blockchain.info: do you run the Blockchain.info app on a rooted Android phone?

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mishrahsigni
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July 28, 2013, 12:07:21 AM
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In short, the answer to your question is yes. However, just as the American West has been mostly tamed, the Bitcoin industry will eventually become mostly regulated, and the consumer experience will improve (at a huge cost, of course).

Regarding Blockchain.info: do you run the Blockchain.info app on a rooted Android phone?


I did at one time, yes...  but i un-installed it before changing both my passwords on blockchain.
mishrahsigni
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July 28, 2013, 12:11:36 AM
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It is really not right to blame victims but... Do you have a learning deficiency? Stop giving other people control and complete trust.

well, i tried trading bitcoins without having any in my online accounts, but it didn't really work so well.  Perhaps it's my learning disability that prevents me from figuring this out.  Please help me and explain it like you were talking to a 3 year old.  Thank you
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July 28, 2013, 12:18:26 AM
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OP FWIW I've watched scam sites come and go. There are sites which don't fit the scam mold IMO. BTC-e, Blockchain.info, and MtGox don't fit. At the end of the day it's up to the operator(s) of the site to not cheat their clients, because there is no regulation other than what the free market itself provides.

BTC-e was hacked early on (at least that's the story we were told) and had many coins stolen. This happened to many sites, but BTC-e was one of the few that replaced the lost coins out of their own profits. They seemed to be looking longer term. This was long before they were as popular as they are now. They couldn't have been making much at the time. I've also watched their site go offline without warning from DDoS etc., a classic start to a site disappearing with coins, but they come back. They are now the biggest exchange site for mixed bitcoin/alt-coin trading, moving hundreds of thousands of dollars daily. They are clearly profiting well now. It would hurt their exchange profits to lose customers over trust issues.

Am I saying people should give them full trust? Heck no. I don't say that about any exchange. Any site can pack up at anytime and disappear. That's why I've always said never keep more coins than you can afford to lose in any online service for the longer term. However, you can look at track record to get an idea of how much trust a service might receive. Same thing applies to Gox and Blockchain.info.

For the record, I do not think these are scam sites.  If I did I never would have used them at all.  My complaint had to do with the "sucks for you" attitude these major sites have... other than mtgox.  BTCE support, feedback, help, etc... was/is abysmal.  Not saying they are scams, just really crappy at communication.  Bitcoin-24 and Blockchain are worse. Where as BTCE replied with a basic "No", blockchain and bitcoinc-24 did not even look at my ticket.  Again, not saying they are a scam, just support challenged.
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July 28, 2013, 12:38:31 AM
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I was around through the BTC-E hacking, trading at the time, where someone managed to inject thousands of dollars in "fake USD" and then used those to buy Bitcoins at hundreds of dollars, at a time when BTC had never reached more than $32. BTC-E Took a $40,000 loss that day, and refunded anyone who sold their BTC for the fake USD. That being said, I think the difference here is, what do you want them to do for you in this case? If it was their fault that you lost your money, aka a security breach, I'm sure they would refund you, but since someone hacked your account by phishing, keylogger, whatever theres not much they can do for you. Its not like a real bank, or visa/mastercard, or whatever that can say, ok you aren't liable, because we can then go procecute whoever stole your funds and make them pay a 10x larger fine, if they refunded everyone who had their accounts hacked due to a password theft, they would also have to refund those people who were careless with their passwords and were just begging to be hacked.

Its true, BTC-E's communication isn't great for the most part, they don't write out eliquent messages explaining the situation, I believe because of the language barrier, but they do tend to reply with some sort of message, even if its just a, "we can't help you, sorry."

That being said, as others have said, the only safe place for your coins is on a properly managed/backed up/encrypted wallet client on your own personal computer, leaving any coins in any exchanges or services long term is just not a good idea, because eventually, the site will get hacked, or someone will get your password, or something, and its not a good situation to be in. The trick to trading, is send your coins, do your trade, and get out of there.
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July 28, 2013, 03:26:11 AM
 #13

2 factor authentication now on BTCe

Any opinions on that ?


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July 28, 2013, 03:26:47 AM
 #14

2 factor authentication now on BTCe

Any opinions on that ?



hop on it asap if you're a BTCe user.

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mishrahsigni
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July 30, 2013, 08:19:56 PM
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2 factor authentication now on BTCe

Any opinions on that ?



they could be a little clearer on what "enter your one time password" means... but other then that, very good!
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July 30, 2013, 08:49:18 PM
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It is really not right to blame victims but... Do you have a learning deficiency? Stop giving other people control and complete trust.

well, i tried trading bitcoins without having any in my online accounts, but it didn't really work so well.  Perhaps it's my learning disability that prevents me from figuring this out.  Please help me and explain it like you were talking to a 3 year old.  Thank you

You're funny!  Grin
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July 31, 2013, 04:49:42 AM
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You most likely have either a password problem or a computer security problem.  The common thing between the three services is you.
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July 31, 2013, 05:27:50 AM
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When the Mrs and I started getting serious about our bitcoins, we bought a laptop only to be used to mine bitcoins and perform bitcoin transactions. We never use it for anything else and keep it updated. Never had a problem with any site or service, but then we dont allow any of them to hold any money or coin for more than a few hours. We use it immediately and either send the coins to our own bitcoins wallets, or we send the cash to our bank - which is a bitcoin-only account. Also, when signing up for sites and services, use long passwords with lower case, upper case, numbers, and special characters. I use KEEPASS for name/password combinations that are long, then its simply a matter of copy and paste. Lastly, we have our laptop hard drive encrypted with truecrypt and have many backups of our wallets saved to hard drive, memory cards, cds, usb drives, and online in the cloud a few places, and of course we have copies cached in all of our online email accounts.
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July 31, 2013, 02:16:13 PM
 #19

2 factor authentication now on BTCe

Any opinions on that ?

Great, at last. What type of two factor authentication is this? I'm guessing it uses google authenticator and is time based? Where can I find a guide to use it?

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July 31, 2013, 10:35:24 PM
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When the Mrs and I started getting serious about our bitcoins, we bought a laptop only to be used to mine bitcoins and perform bitcoin transactions. We never use it for anything else and keep it updated. Never had a problem with any site or service, but then we dont allow any of them to hold any money or coin for more than a few hours. We use it immediately and either send the coins to our own bitcoins wallets, or we send the cash to our bank - which is a bitcoin-only account. Also, when signing up for sites and services, use long passwords with lower case, upper case, numbers, and special characters. I use KEEPASS for name/password combinations that are long, then its simply a matter of copy and paste. Lastly, we have our laptop hard drive encrypted with truecrypt and have many backups of our wallets saved to hard drive, memory cards, cds, usb drives, and online in the cloud a few places, and of course we have copies cached in all of our online email accounts.

Now you just need to stop running that damn mouth off of yours! Now i know i just need to steal your clipboard contents for passwords...
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