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Author Topic: 2013-07-28 Aftenposten.no: Slik Road has doubled since 2012  (Read 1372 times)
Rockefoten
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July 29, 2013, 06:35:47 AM
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Norwegian national daily Aftenposten had an article yesterday stating that Silk Road probably has doubled in size since 2012. Source is Nicolas Christin, who did a study of Silk Road's turnover last year.

Quote
The researcher Nicolas Christins work received international attention when he published a study of the digital, illicit trade market "Silk Road" last fall.

During the first six months of 2012, he gathered information about sales and purchases on the site, and could ultimately estimate that it was trading at over 90 million a year.

But traffic has increased tremendously after the study was completed, and purchases and sales in 2013 are much higher.

It says Christin told Aftenposten.

- I'll be very surprised if there is not at least twice as many transactions today. I think it's even more.

Christin reports that dopselgere the Silk Road over the last 12 months has increased from 564 to 1,200, while the number of available products has increased from 6,500 to 16,000.

The article continues with interviews of sellers on Silk Road, and finishes with speculation on how Atlantis might actually be a police operation.

Here's the original article:
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/Forsker---Internetts-storste-dopmarked-har-doblet-seg-siden-i-fjor-7260638.html

Google translate:
http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aftenposten.no%2Fnyheter%2Furiks%2FForsker---Internetts-storste-dopmarked-har-doblet-seg-siden-i-fjor-7260638.html

Note: When the article mentions "dopselgere" this means drug dealers/sellers on Silk Road.
When the article says Long he/guy this means the dealer (wrong translation from Norwegian "langer(en)".
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J603
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July 29, 2013, 04:23:33 PM
 #2

This article is very interesting. In particular, the small section about the site "Atlantis" peaked my interest. Could it really be the police? Are the police allowed to sell drugs? I thought that they could only pretend to be interested in buying them in order to catch dealers.
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July 29, 2013, 04:34:26 PM
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This article is very interesting. In particular, the small section about the site "Atlantis" peaked my interest. Could it really be the police? Are the police allowed to sell drugs? I thought that they could only pretend to be interested in buying them in order to catch dealers.

lol laws dont apply to the police. look that police is breaking the law quick call the police!

Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041
If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?
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July 29, 2013, 04:39:41 PM
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This article is very interesting. In particular, the small section about the site "Atlantis" peaked my interest. Could it really be the police? Are the police allowed to sell drugs? I thought that they could only pretend to be interested in buying them in order to catch dealers.

At least in the US the courts have found that the police can use deception, lies, trickery, etc to catch criminals.  Undercover police officers pose as prostitutes so posing as a drug dealer wouldn't be materially different.
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July 29, 2013, 05:01:17 PM
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This article is very interesting. In particular, the small section about the site "Atlantis" peaked my interest. Could it really be the police? Are the police allowed to sell drugs? I thought that they could only pretend to be interested in buying them in order to catch dealers.

At least in the US the courts have found that the police can use deception, lies, trickery, etc to catch criminals.  Undercover police officers pose as prostitutes so posing as a drug dealer wouldn't be materially different.

It is true that they can use deception, but I was under the impression that they could not actually sell drugs, because if they did they would be committing a worse crime than what they're trying to stop. It's counter-intuitive. They can pose as prostitutes, but they can't have sex with the client. The cop can't say "Hello I am a prostitute pay me money for sex", they have to stand around looking whorish and hope that someone tries to solicit them. Similarly, I can't see how Atlantis could be cops. They can't offer (or ship) drugs and then arrest people- they would be guilty of drug trafficking, whereas the person they caught would technically be innocent of all crimes, since the police can't prove that it was that person who ordered the drugs.

Now what I could see is the police posing as buyers, getting drugs shipped and then tracking the package back to the source. They could potentially catch some people, but I doubt that sellers ship from the same town in which they live.
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July 29, 2013, 05:54:55 PM
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Nice article. It's pretty amazing to see a website anyone can access where you can order just about any illegal thing and there's no way for governments to stop it. It shows that we are heading with giant leaps into a brave new world.

But SR is still small fish, it is not even one percent of one percent of the total world-wide drug trade. And hence it is a shame how Bitcoin gets a bad reputation because it makes ignorant people easily dismiss it as criminal when they don't think of the fact that cash is being used for the same to a greater extent and that cartels are using high street banks for drug money transactions to an even greater extent.

One thing about the article though: it seems to be confusing turnover and profits. Dread Pirate Roberts not yet making 183 million NOK in profits - just seven percent of that.

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July 29, 2013, 06:05:51 PM
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This article is very interesting. In particular, the small section about the site "Atlantis" peaked my interest. Could it really be the police? Are the police allowed to sell drugs? I thought that they could only pretend to be interested in buying them in order to catch dealers.

What a joke. LEOs can lie, bag up drugs, possess drugs, distribute drugs, and it's only illegal for you to receive them from them or to express verbal interest, etc. They are not held to any such standard, and if they claim it so, it is a fabrication.



Also, anyone who thinks "they can't stop it" is silly. Research how massively the United States is invading your privacy via postal mail since 9/11. It is bad.

BTC Long.
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July 29, 2013, 06:26:47 PM
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Also, anyone who thinks "they can't stop it" is silly. Research how massively the United States is invading your privacy via postal mail since 9/11. It is bad.

I forgot to add "without checking every single mail item sent". Do you have a link for this?

Anyhow, even if they check one in ten mail sent, they would still only stop a small part of the drugs buy spending insane amounts of money checking most mail which of course is legal. And as the article says, they won't be able to press charges on anyone when they can't prove who paid for the drugs.
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July 29, 2013, 06:35:50 PM
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So it looks like "reverse stings" are legal, but the buyers can get away with it with a pretty lame excuse (the lawyer argued that since the police never intended for the buyers to get away, they were never in possession).

http://www.kpho.com/story/22102426/police-reverse-sting-operations-under-scrutiny-by-az-supreme-court

Also, I know in the state of Maryland and I think Virginia as well, the cops will not sell real drugs. Because buying fake drugs with the intent to distribute as if they were real is illegal, they do this instead.

Finally, trying to sell drugs through an anonymous market would be pointless, as they can't prove that it was the recipient of the package who placed the order. Plus, it seems counterintuitive to distribute drugs to stop distributors...
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July 30, 2013, 02:49:32 AM
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So it looks like "reverse stings" are legal, but the buyers can get away with it with a pretty lame excuse (the lawyer argued that since the police never intended for the buyers to get away, they were never in possession).

http://www.kpho.com/story/22102426/police-reverse-sting-operations-under-scrutiny-by-az-supreme-court

Also, I know in the state of Maryland and I think Virginia as well, the cops will not sell real drugs. Because buying fake drugs with the intent to distribute as if they were real is illegal, they do this instead.

Finally, trying to sell drugs through an anonymous market would be pointless, as they can't prove that it was the recipient of the package who placed the order. Plus, it seems counterintuitive to distribute drugs to stop distributors...

The risk is likely low but it isn't zero.  Receiving the drugs would likely be sufficient evidence to get a search warrant for home and computers.  How many drug users have 0 (as in passes a CSI inspection) evidence of drug use in their home.  Home many bitcoin users are so perfect in their security that no evidence of bitcoin transactions can be found.  If you graphed these two populations how often would they intersect.

Most people are "safe" because Police are more interested in major dealers not end users and such stings would be expensive and manpower intensive for little gain.  However potential users shouldn't confuse Police "not" doing something with an "inability" to do something.
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July 30, 2013, 03:03:44 AM
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but I was under the impression that they could not actually sell drugs, because if they did they would be committing a worse crime than what they're trying to stop.

You are definitely under the wrong impression about what the purpose of the State is. Forget selling relatively harmless things like drugs and instead think about massive heavy automatic weapons trafficking like the ATF gunwalking scandal.

After all, if the drug cartels are not armed to the teeth and wrecking all types of violence then why would we need the State to protect us from them?

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July 30, 2013, 06:50:22 PM
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So it looks like "reverse stings" are legal, but the buyers can get away with it with a pretty lame excuse (the lawyer argued that since the police never intended for the buyers to get away, they were never in possession).

http://www.kpho.com/story/22102426/police-reverse-sting-operations-under-scrutiny-by-az-supreme-court

Also, I know in the state of Maryland and I think Virginia as well, the cops will not sell real drugs. Because buying fake drugs with the intent to distribute as if they were real is illegal, they do this instead.

Finally, trying to sell drugs through an anonymous market would be pointless, as they can't prove that it was the recipient of the package who placed the order. Plus, it seems counterintuitive to distribute drugs to stop distributors...

The risk is likely low but it isn't zero.  Receiving the drugs would likely be sufficient evidence to get a search warrant for home and computers.  How many drug users have 0 (as in passes a CSI inspection) evidence of drug use in their home.  Home many bitcoin users are so perfect in their security that no evidence of bitcoin transactions can be found.  If you graphed these two populations how often would they intersect.

Most people are "safe" because Police are more interested in major dealers not end users and such stings would be expensive and manpower intensive for little gain.  However potential users shouldn't confuse Police "not" doing something with an "inability" to do something.

Receiving the drugs is not sufficient evidence to search the home. I used to have a friend that got packages of a certain herb (not from SR or Atlantis) and one day, due to poor handling of the package at the post office, the contents were revealed and he was brought in for questioning. He simply denied everything. Mind you, he doesn't keep everything out in the open anyways, but I doubt most users of SR are morons who leave stuff all over the place. You don't have to believe me, but a simple google search will show many people in the same situation.

Because the police have no proof that it was you, they have no way of acquiring a warrant. Even if they did somehow get a warrant, and went straight to the computer (which they would need a specific warrant to do so), you have a strong case against them. You could easily say that the police ordered a package of drugs to your house and then raided it. Unless they can prove that it was you that ordered it (impossible because of Tor), there is no way that they can get you for anything. Imagine how ridiculous it would look to a judge or jury when the police try to arrest you for drugs that they shipped without your (supposed) knowledge.

I do agree with your second paragraph- it is stupid to think that just because they haven't doesn't mean that they won't. However, seeing as there is only one confirmed report of someone being arrested because of SR related activities I think that it is very hard to get someone for this kind of thing.
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