Entitlement Mentality

[the joint]

In Chicago, IL fast food workers are striking, protesting and demanding $15/hr where the state minimum wage is $8.25/hr.

The average profit margin for a company is about 5-10% and these idiots want their salaries nearly doubled, arguing that they're not receiving a livable wage.

Um, no.  I'm getting a bit sick of this attitude of entitlement floating around the USA, and keep in mind I work in the field of social services.

When I graduated and began work as a counselor in the adult psychiatric unit of a Chicago hospital, I made $15/hr with a post-graduate degree and was sent to the emergency room twice for being assaulted on the job within a period of 6 months.

So, what did I do?  Did I bitch and complain and protest about my salary or my work conditions?  No.  Instead,  I updated and revised my résumé and began sending it directly to the email addresses of the hiring managers at a variety of agencies.  Within 2 months I secured a new job where I am under-qualified and overpaid, and I love my new job.  I'm proud of it, and proud of myself for doing what I needed to do to adapt and thrive.

Thoughts?

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[vampire]

In Chicago, IL fast food workers are striking, protesting and demanding $15/hr where the state minimum wage is $8.25/hr.

The average profit margin for a company is about 5-10% and these idiots want their salaries nearly doubled, arguing that they're not receiving a livable wage.

I am familiar with the situation, since one of my acquaintance is one of the owners of a start up food place in Chicago. These people can strike, we cannot forbid them not to. If enough people refuse to work then the labor is too cheap and the companies need to raise their salaries. Of course I am against a government participation in this negotiation.

From top of my head, in my acquaintance's company there are ways of increasing your salary to ~$11 by taking appropriate certifications.

Um, no.  I'm getting a bit sick of this attitude of entitlement floating around the USA, and keep in mind I work in the field of social services.

I feel that I'm entitled to a certain salary too, I do ask for promotions once in awhile! So am I entitled? :-)

[FirstAscent]

If they can strike, more power to them. Maybe it will weed out the fast food restaurants that aren't popular due to crummy food. In-n-Out pays well above minimum wage to start, and they do quite well, because they offer a superior product.

Maybe you shouldn't be bitching about what other workers seek in the world, but instead about the idea that any business should succeed, even if they produce a lousy product.

And don't pull the line about how it's going to make lunch prices go up. In-n-Out offers a soda, a delicious cheeseburger and delicious fries (all from fresh ingredients trucked to the store daily) for about $5.00.

It's not the workers' fault here. It's businesses which choose not to streamline their process and offer a superior product and service that are at fault.

Essentially, it sounds like you're advocating a sloppy and lazy business plan. Quit your whining, enjoy your job, and instead of complaining about workers seek in this world, why don't you go enjoy a nice lunch somewhere?

[tvbcof]

In Chicago, IL fast food workers are striking, protesting and demanding $15/hr where the state minimum wage is $8.25/hr.

The average profit margin for a company is about 5-10% and these idiots want their salaries nearly doubled, arguing that they're not receiving a livable wage.

Um, no.  I'm getting a bit sick of this attitude of entitlement floating around the USA, and keep in mind I work in the field of social services.

When I graduated and began work as a counselor in the adult psychiatric unit of a Chicago hospital, I made $15/hr with a post-graduate degree and was sent to the emergency room twice for being assaulted on the job within a period of 6 months.

So, what did I do?  Did I bitch and complain and protest about my salary or my work conditions?  No.  Instead,  I updated and revised my résumé and began sending it directly to the email addresses of the hiring managers at a variety of agencies.  Within 2 months I secured a new job where I am under-qualified and overpaid, and I love my new job.  I'm proud of it, and proud of myself for doing what I needed to do to adapt and thrive.

Thoughts?

Different people whine/brag in different ways.  Some choose bitcointalk.org forum for example.

I am 'entitled' to social security because I've put in probably at least several hundred large.  In the unlikely event that the system does not collapse completely, I only really expect to get back what I need.  If I don't need my full 'investment' back it means that I've been lucky enough to remain healthy.  If I genuinely need more than I put in it means that I have had some mis-fortune and am probably living in misery.  I'd much prefer the former.

Would I prefer to not be forced into this insurance policy but be free to make my own choice?  Obviously yes, but human nature is such that it is simply not a workable scheme.  I cannot force myself to take up residence in Libertarian la-la-land, though it seems like a cozy area if I could.

Alas, what we have (I strongly believe) is a situation where well connected insiders have managed to abscond with my SS contributions and it is entirely unlikely that I will see anything near a 'fair' return whether I have a true need or not.  Sucks, but it makes no sense for me to 'go postal' about it.  It would just make my life less pleasant and would not solve the problem.  At this point I am comfortable making alternate plans to protect my own ass (like Bitcoin for instance) and trying to support the minority of decent politicians with the wisdom to set up for the best possible outcome (for us plebs) when the shit does finally hit the fan.

In the mean time, my strategy is to arrange my life such that I can go through periods of not making a lot of money and thus not paying a lot into an 'entitlement' system which I strongly believe will ultimately fail me (and the rest of us who are not in the higher echelons of the modern financial capital system.)  Doing that now.  It's great!

[the joint]

If they can strike, more power to them.

Agreed.

Maybe it will weed out the fast food restaurants that aren't popular due to crummy food. In-n-Out pays well above minimum wage to start, and they do quite well, because they offer a superior product.

I'm struggling to find the relevance here.  Maybe it will, maybe it won't.  In-n-Out is tasty though

Maybe you shouldn't be bitching about what other workers seek in the world, but instead about the idea that any business should succeed, even if they produce a lousy product.

My issue is more with the idea that my intuition tells me that this is an inefficient use of the strikers' time.  I don't have a problem with people striking, but consider the following: the last time this happened, McDonald's workers in the area got a 10 cent raise.  This means that if a worker was to go on strike for a single day, it would take >500 hours or about 3 months of working for that 10 cent raise to earn them back their lost wages.  I wonder what percentage of those workers receiving that 10 cent raise remained employed for at least three months after the fact.

On a side note, ever drive through bumper-to-bumper traffic and realize the only reason the traffic jam is there is because some group is protesting about something you don't care about?  When it starts affecting (objectively) the flow of my day, that's when I feel inclined to give my input.

And don't pull the line about how it's going to make lunch prices go up. In-n-Out offers a soda, a delicious cheeseburger and delicious fries (all from fresh ingredients trucked to the store daily) for about $5.00.

I wasn't even thinking it.

It's not the workers' fault here. It's businesses which choose not to streamline their process and offer a superior product and service that are at fault.

To me, this isn't an issue about placing blame. Rather, I see it as a failure-to-adapt problem.  Let me be clear first off by stating that I would never even propose a dichotomy of "workers' fault vs. employers' fault."  Instead, to me, the situation appears as follows:

There are some fast food workers who are dissatisfied with either pay, working conditions, or both.  Three things are absolutely certain:  1) They applied for their current job on their own free will, 2) there were preexisting factors or conditions that led them to decide to apply for their current job, and 3) they currently have other options to choose from, and striking is at least one of those options.

I simply believe that out of the options available to them, striking is not an optimal one.  Of course this is all my opinion.

Essentially, it sounds like you're advocating a sloppy and lazy business plan. Quit your whining, enjoy your job, and instead of complaining about workers seek in this world, why don't you go enjoy a nice lunch somewhere?

Holy non-sequitor.

[Lethn]

This isn't a problem with entitlement, it's a problem with the economy and the people, if you want higher pay then you should get a different job, there's only so much you can pay a fast food worker, if you can't live comfortably on the amount you're being given, then that means it's either being inflated away and you don't have enough purchasing power or you need to adjust your lifestyle.

To me, this kind of thing screams inflation.

[Schleicher]

Looks like some people still assume that there are enough jobs available for everyone.
Many people can't find a different job. Or find one at all.

[the joint]

Looks like some people still assume that there are enough jobs available for everyone.
Many people can't find a different job. Or find one at all.

Not only are there jobs out there, there are DREAM jobs out there.  You know why most people don't get hired for those jobs?  They submit their credentials to monster.com or some agency website and get tossed into a stack with everyone else.  Accordingly, they don't stick out in any way and they fight for the same spot with dozens of other people.

I always get responses (and usually a job offer to boot) when i send a custom cover letter directly to a hiring manager's email address.  I skip ahead of all the uncreative ones and my assertiveness demonstrates to the employer that I'm a go-getter.  Demanding a better wage or position is an inferior approach to demonstrating why it is deserved.  

[tinus42]

When I graduated and began work as a counselor in the adult psychiatric unit of a Chicago hospital, I made $15/hr with a post-graduate degree and was sent to the emergency room twice for being assaulted on the job within a period of 6 months.

When was that? $15 was worth more ten years ago than it is now due to inflation.

[crumbs]

Looks like some people still assume that there are enough jobs available for everyone.
Many people can't find a different job. Or find one at all.

Not only are there jobs out there, there are DREAM jobs out there.  You know why most people don't get hired for those jobs?  They submit their credentials to monster.com or some agency website and get tossed into a stack with everyone else.  Accordingly, they don't stick out in any way and they fight for the same spot with dozens of other people.

I always get responses (and usually a job offer to boot) when i send a custom cover letter directly to a hiring manager's email address.  I skip ahead of all the uncreative ones and my assertiveness demonstrates to the employer that I'm a go-getter.  Demanding a better wage or position is an inferior approach to demonstrating why it is deserved.  

Entitlement mentality.  
Entitlement to avoid backed up traffic caused by plebs striking for a living wage or, as you so eloquently put it, "protesting about something you don't care about"?  Next time you feel the need to share your views on cover letter optimisation, pull over and share with the picketers.  I'm sure they'll appreciate it more than i.

[the joint]

When I graduated and began work as a counselor in the adult psychiatric unit of a Chicago hospital, I made $15/hr with a post-graduate degree and was sent to the emergency room twice for being assaulted on the job within a period of 6 months.

When was that? $15 was worth more ten years ago than it is now due to inflation.

Last year.

[FirstAscent]

Essentially, it sounds like you're advocating a sloppy and lazy business plan. Quit your whining, enjoy your job, and instead of complaining about workers seek in this world, why don't you go enjoy a nice lunch somewhere?

Holy non-sequitor.

Not at all. It's been demonstrated that fast food restaurants can afford higher wages. They just have to be a successful business, such as In-n-Out. Of course, if you're less successful, or let's just plain say, "unsuccessful", you can still get your business to survive if you pay below a living wage.

If your food is of low quality, and your service sucks, you can't pack your restaurant at lunch time. Ergo, you're not selling to capacity, and your bottom line is not so good, so you have to pay low wages. That just about sums it up for most fast food restaurants.

[the joint]

Looks like some people still assume that there are enough jobs available for everyone.
Many people can't find a different job. Or find one at all.

Not only are there jobs out there, there are DREAM jobs out there.  You know why most people don't get hired for those jobs?  They submit their credentials to monster.com or some agency website and get tossed into a stack with everyone else.  Accordingly, they don't stick out in any way and they fight for the same spot with dozens of other people.

I always get responses (and usually a job offer to boot) when i send a custom cover letter directly to a hiring manager's email address.  I skip ahead of all the uncreative ones and my assertiveness demonstrates to the employer that I'm a go-getter.  Demanding a better wage or position is an inferior approach to demonstrating why it is deserved.  

Entitlement mentality.  
Entitlement to avoid backed up traffic caused by plebs striking for a living wage or, as you so eloquently put it, "protesting about something you don't care about"?  Next time you feel the need to share your views on cover letter optimisation, pull over and share with the picketers.  I'm sure they'll appreciate it more than i.

The comment about being backed up in traffic had to do with other protests, not this one specifically.  That's why I said it was a "side note."

I'm saying that it's the demanding nature of the protest and the context that makes me believe the attitude is one of collective entitlement that is undeserved.  When that entitlement carries so far as to disturb others going about their daily lives, it becomes just that -- a disturbance.

You're entitled to your opinion, though I'm not sure why you seem so offended by mine.

[FirstAscent]

Looks like some people still assume that there are enough jobs available for everyone.
Many people can't find a different job. Or find one at all.

Not only are there jobs out there, there are DREAM jobs out there.  You know why most people don't get hired for those jobs?  They submit their credentials to monster.com or some agency website and get tossed into a stack with everyone else.  Accordingly, they don't stick out in any way and they fight for the same spot with dozens of other people.

I always get responses (and usually a job offer to boot) when i send a custom cover letter directly to a hiring manager's email address.  I skip ahead of all the uncreative ones and my assertiveness demonstrates to the employer that I'm a go-getter.  Demanding a better wage or position is an inferior approach to demonstrating why it is deserved.  

Entitlement mentality.  
Entitlement to avoid backed up traffic caused by plebs striking for a living wage or, as you so eloquently put it, "protesting about something you don't care about"?  Next time you feel the need to share your views on cover letter optimisation, pull over and share with the picketers.  I'm sure they'll appreciate it more than i.

The comment about being backed up in traffic had to do with other protests, not this one specifically.  That's why I said it was a "side note."

I'm saying that it's the demanding nature of the protest and the context that makes me believe the attitude is one of collective entitlement that is undeserved.  When that entitlement carries so far as to disturb others going about their daily lives, it becomes just that -- a disturbance.

You're entitled to your opinion, though I'm not sure why you seem so offended by mine.

You're being arbitrary when you discuss entitlement. It's arbitrary for you to say that working all day, regardless of the skill, is worth less than a hundred dollars than more than a hundred dollars.

[the joint]

Essentially, it sounds like you're advocating a sloppy and lazy business plan. Quit your whining, enjoy your job, and instead of complaining about workers seek in this world, why don't you go enjoy a nice lunch somewhere?

Holy non-sequitor.

Not at all. It's been demonstrated that fast food restaurants can afford higher wages. They just have to be a successful business, such as In-n-Out. Of course, if you're less successful, or let's just plain say, "unsuccessful", you can still get your business to survive if you pay below a living wage.

If your food is of low quality, and your service sucks, you can't pack your restaurant at lunch time. Ergo, you're not selling to capacity, and your bottom line is not so good, so you have to pay low wages. That just about sums it up for most fast food restaurants.

It's a non-sequitur because you're saying I'm implying something that absolutely doesn't follow from what I said.  My statements apply to those employed by both 'sloppy' and efficient businesses.   What you said would be like me suggesting that you're now implying that every business should only be allowed to profit a certain amount and the rest should necessarily be distributed to employees.  But that, of course, would be silly...

[FirstAscent]

Essentially, it sounds like you're advocating a sloppy and lazy business plan. Quit your whining, enjoy your job, and instead of complaining about workers seek in this world, why don't you go enjoy a nice lunch somewhere?

Holy non-sequitor.

Not at all. It's been demonstrated that fast food restaurants can afford higher wages. They just have to be a successful business, such as In-n-Out. Of course, if you're less successful, or let's just plain say, "unsuccessful", you can still get your business to survive if you pay below a living wage.

If your food is of low quality, and your service sucks, you can't pack your restaurant at lunch time. Ergo, you're not selling to capacity, and your bottom line is not so good, so you have to pay low wages. That just about sums it up for most fast food restaurants.

It's a non-sequitur because you're saying I'm implying something that absolutely doesn't follow from what I said.  My statements apply to those employed by both 'sloppy' and efficient businesses.   What you said would be like me suggesting that you're now implying that every business should only be allowed to profit a certain amount and the rest should necessarily be distributed to employees.  But that, of course, would be silly...

Incorrect. If I said that, In-n-Out's owner would have to distribute her billion dollar plus fortune to its workers. Ridiculous.

As for your statement - you admitted it. You advocate both 'sloppy' and efficient businesses. I advocate efficient and well run businesses myself.

[the joint]

Looks like some people still assume that there are enough jobs available for everyone.
Many people can't find a different job. Or find one at all.

Not only are there jobs out there, there are DREAM jobs out there.  You know why most people don't get hired for those jobs?  They submit their credentials to monster.com or some agency website and get tossed into a stack with everyone else.  Accordingly, they don't stick out in any way and they fight for the same spot with dozens of other people.

I always get responses (and usually a job offer to boot) when i send a custom cover letter directly to a hiring manager's email address.  I skip ahead of all the uncreative ones and my assertiveness demonstrates to the employer that I'm a go-getter.  Demanding a better wage or position is an inferior approach to demonstrating why it is deserved.  

Entitlement mentality.  
Entitlement to avoid backed up traffic caused by plebs striking for a living wage or, as you so eloquently put it, "protesting about something you don't care about"?  Next time you feel the need to share your views on cover letter optimisation, pull over and share with the picketers.  I'm sure they'll appreciate it more than i.

The comment about being backed up in traffic had to do with other protests, not this one specifically.  That's why I said it was a "side note."

I'm saying that it's the demanding nature of the protest and the context that makes me believe the attitude is one of collective entitlement that is undeserved.  When that entitlement carries so far as to disturb others going about their daily lives, it becomes just that -- a disturbance.

You're entitled to your opinion, though I'm not sure why you seem so offended by mine.

You're being arbitrary when you discuss entitlement. It's arbitrary for you to say that working all day, regardless of the skill, is worth less than a hundred dollars than more than a hundred dollars.

I'd hardly call it being arbitrary when I defined the context as entitlement being equivalent to demanding something that is undeserved (and impracticality so).  I think you're calling it 'arbitrary' because you don't share the same opinion(i.e. that the demands are undeserved) and thus find it hard to resonate with.

[the joint]

Essentially, it sounds like you're advocating a sloppy and lazy business plan. Quit your whining, enjoy your job, and instead of complaining about workers seek in this world, why don't you go enjoy a nice lunch somewhere?

Holy non-sequitor.

Not at all. It's been demonstrated that fast food restaurants can afford higher wages. They just have to be a successful business, such as In-n-Out. Of course, if you're less successful, or let's just plain say, "unsuccessful", you can still get your business to survive if you pay below a living wage.

If your food is of low quality, and your service sucks, you can't pack your restaurant at lunch time. Ergo, you're not selling to capacity, and your bottom line is not so good, so you have to pay low wages. That just about sums it up for most fast food restaurants.

It's a non-sequitur because you're saying I'm implying something that absolutely doesn't follow from what I said.  My statements apply to those employed by both 'sloppy' and efficient businesses.   What you said would be like me suggesting that you're now implying that every business should only be allowed to profit a certain amount and the rest should necessarily be distributed to employees.  But that, of course, would be silly...

Incorrect. If I said that, In-n-Out's owner would have to distribute her billion dollar plus fortune to its workers. Ridiculous.

As for your statement - you admitted it. You advocate both 'sloppy' and efficient businesses. I advocate efficient and well run businesses myself.

Read it again.  I am indeed saying it would be ridiculous for me to suggest that is what you implied, just as its ridiculous that you're saying I'm implying anything about 'advocating' sloppy businesses.  

I will say that there simply ARE businesses that are sloppier than others, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

[tvbcof]

When I graduated and began work as a counselor in the adult psychiatric unit of a Chicago hospital, I made $15/hr with a post-graduate degree and was sent to the emergency room twice for being assaulted on the job within a period of 6 months.

When was that? $15 was worth more ten years ago than it is now due to inflation.

A year or two ago this guy was on this forum boo-hoo'ing about being a broke student as I remember things.  Maybe he was not whining about that, but there was something fairly trivial that he made a notable stink about.  Anyway, I remember how I felt when I had my first 'well paying' job.  It was like walking on air and a big confidence booster and a strode the earth like Goliath for a few weeks.  It is understandable now that the guy would be crowing about his success...albeit a little ugly that he would be berating an entire class of people who don't have the wherewithal to go get one of the countless 'dream jobs' that abound.

[FirstAscent]

Essentially, it sounds like you're advocating a sloppy and lazy business plan. Quit your whining, enjoy your job, and instead of complaining about workers seek in this world, why don't you go enjoy a nice lunch somewhere?

Holy non-sequitor.

Not at all. It's been demonstrated that fast food restaurants can afford higher wages. They just have to be a successful business, such as In-n-Out. Of course, if you're less successful, or let's just plain say, "unsuccessful", you can still get your business to survive if you pay below a living wage.

If your food is of low quality, and your service sucks, you can't pack your restaurant at lunch time. Ergo, you're not selling to capacity, and your bottom line is not so good, so you have to pay low wages. That just about sums it up for most fast food restaurants.

It's a non-sequitur because you're saying I'm implying something that absolutely doesn't follow from what I said.  My statements apply to those employed by both 'sloppy' and efficient businesses.   What you said would be like me suggesting that you're now implying that every business should only be allowed to profit a certain amount and the rest should necessarily be distributed to employees.  But that, of course, would be silly...

Incorrect. If I said that, In-n-Out's owner would have to distribute her billion dollar plus fortune to its workers. Ridiculous.

As for your statement - you admitted it. You advocate both 'sloppy' and efficient businesses. I advocate efficient and well run businesses myself.

Read it again.  I am indeed saying it would be ridiculous for me to suggest that is what you implied, just as its ridiculous that you're saying I'm implying anything about 'advocating' sloppy businesses.  

I will say that there simply ARE businesses that are sloppier than others, but this has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

Everything I've said is indeed implicit in your OP.

Mediocre fast food restaurants fail (and thus need to pay lower wages) because they offer a substandard product and thus get less customers per store. These restaurants employ one half to one fourth the employees per store that In-n-Out employs, and serve one half to one fourth the customers at any given time. They fail precisely because they have bad service and bad food.

Note that they require two to four times as many stores to create the same revenue that one In-n-Out store creates. And so, because of their poor product, they pay their expenses out to real estate costs and building costs, instead of to the employees.

Is this an entitlement issue with regard to the employees? No, it isn't. If you want to look to why these crappy businesses exist, look to the minimum wage.