[SOLD]: 3 x BFL MR500 Preorder - Paydate: 08/15/12

[rustyh17]

My group purchased 1 x 1500GH BFL Mini-rig on August 15th, 2012.

BFL is currently shipping 3 x MR500's to fill these orders. We are placing all 3 pre-orders for immediate
sale.

REV 02 - Price starts at 150 BTC each and increments by 10 BTC per bid thereafter. Bidding will cease at
10 am Central Time (GMT -6) on Friday, August 2nd, 2013. We offer a BUY IT NOW price of 300 BTC
each in case you really don't want to risk not winning these early pre-orders.

Terms:

REV 01 - 50% down payment required paid to us directly in BTC AFTER mutually trusted third party verification.

REV 01 - 50% balance held in escrow until re-shipped to your address upon receipt at our facilities.

REV 01 - We have modified escrow terms in Post #5 below


(We are near BFL, so we shouldn't lose many mining days. We can even host these units for the first
few months to maximize your return. We pay low electrical rate, and would only charge about $10/day
for hosting each MR500 at our facility.)

768 chip credits have been donated to Mr Teal's chip purchase, so you could potentially jump on that
bandwagon and the "benefit" would be passed from our group name to your's. (Of course, the 768 chip
credits would be split 3 ways to 256 credits per MR500.)

Shipping: Buyer will pay shipping at cost plus insurance (payable in BTC to seller). This will be mutually
agreed at time of re-shipment to your satisfaction.

Fees: All escrow fees will be born by seller. A reputable escrow company (like John K.) would need to be
utilized. We are willing to provide full disclosure details to any escrow company to verify both our purchase
and our identity/location as necessary to allow you to bid with confidence.

Delivery: BFL continues to state that they will have everything caught up by September. We are relatively
early in the queue. Presently, they are still shipping JUN/23/12 mini-rig orders. It has been stated that the
schedule is heavily front loaded. Our own risk assessment places delivery at late August. Note: We are
selling the "pre-order", not the "equipment in hand". This means that you will pay a discounted price, but
you will assume the delivery date risk. We will require that the buyer sign a delivery date waiver at time of
purchase. In the very remote chance that BFL never delivers, we will refund your full purchase price less
any escrow fees.

We realize you do not know that we are who we say we are and that we will follow through with the terms
of this sale, however, we do offer this "preliminary proof" of our order position and confirmation:

Let us re-emphasize one point. We are who we say we are. We have to sell what we say we have to sell.
We are committed to selling what we say we are. This is a no nonsense strictly business transaction. We
are perfectly willing to enter into a formal business contract for sale with any potential buyer.

Thank you for your interest in our offering!

[rustyh17]

FAQ:

Q: Why wouldn't you accept 100% escrow?

A:  The down payment clause was instituted to ensure that the buyer has sufficient
     commercial incentive to complete the transaction. The down payment amount is
     negotiable to the satisfaction of both parties.

A: We have replaced the down payment clause with our response to thebrit's question
     below (see Post #5). We are selling a pre-order, not equipment in hand.

[dogie]

Why wouldn't you accept 100% escrow?

[thebrit]

Why wouldn't you accept 100% escrow?

Concur with dogie. 100% escrow and I would be interested. You logic makes no sense at to why it isn't acceptable to you.

[rustyh17]

REV 01 - Terms: We would agree to 100% escrow with John K. (or equal) if the conditions for release of the escrow did not include waiting for physical delivery of the unit to the buyer. If physical delivery of the unit were required, we might as well wait and sell at an "equipment in hand" price.

We would consider the conditions for release of the escrow to include third party verification:

• of seller control of the BFL pre-order account,
• of the BFL pre-order information and payment,
• that reasonable control of the BFL pre-order account was shared/turned over to the buyer (within BFL policy limits).

A 5% escrow retainage would be acceptable to ensure that the seller has assisted the buyer in having the equipment delivered to the buyer either directly or by immediate reshipment. This final escrow retainage would be released upon proof of shipping dispatch to buyer.

In case of reshipment, seller would consult buyer for instructions. Cost for reshipment and any applicable taxes, duties, or customs clearance fees would be borne by buyer.

[rustyh17]

We have lowered entry point price.

[dogie]

We would agree to 100% escrow with John K. (or equal) if the conditions for release of the escrow did not include waiting for physical delivery of the unit to the buyer. If physical delivery of the unit were required, we might as well wait and sell at an "equipment in hand" price.

Then that isn't escrow. You're asking the buyer to take over all risk that this item never exists. The reason you are selling now is to lock in a price. You won't sell with these terms, feel free to prove me wrong though.

[rustyh17]

We would agree to 100% escrow with John K. (or equal) if the conditions for release of the escrow did not include waiting for physical delivery of the unit to the buyer. If physical delivery of the unit were required, we might as well wait and sell at an "equipment in hand" price.

Then that isn't escrow. You're asking the buyer to take over all risk that this item never exists. The reason you are selling now is to lock in a price. You won't sell with these terms, feel free to prove me wrong though.

Yes, we're asking the buyer to take the exact same risk that we took when we first purchased the pre-order. Selling now versus waiting until receipt virtually guarantees we are taking a lower price than we would for equipment in hand. If you need evidence of that, go look at the equipment pricing for in hand items versus pre-order items. In hand prices are king. You should know with all the AsicMiner items you have brokered. It is possible that we will not sell our pre-orders under the current terms, however, paying a pre-order price while waiting until delivery to actually release funds is double-dipping. There is no discounted price without assuming the original buyer's risk. Thank you for your comment and position on our current offering. If you change your mind, we have 4.3TH of equipment pre-orders for sale.

[Spacewaya]

420BTC for all 3

[rustyh17]

420BTC for all 3

Spacewaya, noted. Thank you for your offer. Currently, the minimum bid is 150BTC each.

On another point, we assume that your offers across multiple equipment sales are additive.
Please confirm or note otherwise.

[rustyh17]

Current group buy bid for BFL and Bitfury equipment has been received.

[yochdog]

Alarm bells are ringing.  Would be very cautious on this one. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bu5sIR7Vxq8&t=110

[rustyh17]

Sorry if this added information was some sort of breech of etiquette. I guess it is non-verifiable so maybe I could be lying. Well, since there are no public qualifying bids yet on this offering, I guess it could just close out with no public bids. I am trying to remain professional here and above reproach (which is difficult in this community). Yochdog, if you feel this was major cause for alarm, I'll lock this offering and close it out early for public bidding. I will continue to take PM bids up until original closing but I will make no additional public feedback posts until after the original closing date. Yochdog, your vote will decide.

[yochdog]

I am not trying to cast aspersions on you personally, but the terms warrant a lot of caution.  You are relatively new to the community, you are not offering real escrow, and the minimum bid is MUCH lower than what other MR are going for.  That last part is counter-intuitive, but is a hallmark of many scams in the past. 

I think you can bury all doubt by simply agreeing to full escrow through John K., to be released on physical delivery.  It really is that simple. 

[rustyh17]

I am not trying to cast aspersions on you personally, but the terms warrant a lot of caution.  You are relatively new to the community, you are not offering real escrow, and the minimum bid is MUCH lower than what other MR are going for.  That last part is counter-intuitive, but is a hallmark of many scams in the past. 

I think you can bury all doubt by simply agreeing to full escrow through John K., to be released on physical delivery.  It really is that simple. 

If I sold the units today with delivery risk factored into the price (i.e. discounted), but I couldn't get paid until the delivery risk was eliminated (i.e. unit in hand), how does that make sense?

If I came to this forum in 3 weeks upon delivery with 3 x MR500's for sale, they'd likely go for 300-500BTC each. I'm not asking for a delivered market price. I am asking for the buyer to assume delivery risk in return for a selling price substantially below market price.

Would it make more sense for me to offer this deal 2 ways? Full price for 100% escrow and discounted price for current terms?

I would think that some people would want to assume delivery risk for a discounted price.

[Spacewaya]

I am not trying to cast aspersions on you personally, but the terms warrant a lot of caution.  You are relatively new to the community, you are not offering real escrow, and the minimum bid is MUCH lower than what other MR are going for.  That last part is counter-intuitive, but is a hallmark of many scams in the past.  

I think you can bury all doubt by simply agreeing to full escrow through John K., to be released on physical delivery.  It really is that simple.  

If I sold the units today with delivery risk factored into the price (i.e. discounted), but I couldn't get paid until the delivery risk was eliminated (i.e. unit in hand), how does that make sense?

If I came to this forum in 3 weeks upon delivery with 3 x MR500's for sale, they'd likely go for 300-500BTC each. I'm not asking for a delivered market price. I am asking for the buyer to assume delivery risk in return for a selling price substantially below market price.

Would it make more sense for me to offer this deal 2 ways? Full price for 100% escrow and discounted price for current terms?

I would think that some people would want to assume delivery risk for a discounted price.

I could care less about escrow or whatever.  Before you getting my hard earned money, we are going to talk and I plan to do my own due diligence on you which will require probably talking to a lawyer in your area.  So I guess if you're not comfortable with being fully open with this community, you're not going to get anywhere.

with that being said, 450BTC for all 3. 

[rustyh17]

...  

...

I could care less about escrow or whatever.  Before you getting my hard earned money, we are going to talk and I plan to do my own due diligence on you which will require probably talking to a lawyer in your area.  So I guess if you're not comfortable with being fully open with this community, you're not going to get anywhere.

with that being said, 450BTC for all 3. 

I have no problem whatsoever with you knowing who I am and doing your own local due diligence. I'll even work with you on an actual binding business contract if that's what you need to feel good about the integrity of the deal. I will PM you with further information on how to contact me in person. Thank you for your offering.

[cp1]

What's the point of escrow then -- it just seems like it's adding unnecessary fees.

[rustyh17]

What's the point of escrow then -- it just seems like it's adding unnecessary fees.

If you actually trust the seller, then escrow is "wasted money". Any seasoned buyer in this community with all the scams running around has been burned often enough that the escrow fee is worth the money in order to avoid losing 100%. It is kind of like insurance. Nobody wants to pay for insurance, but they sure are glad they did when a hurricane is on its way.

If you do your due diligence and even enter into a formal business contract, then escrow may be unnecessary. The funny thing is that writing up a formal business contract complete with notarization etc., ends up costing about as much as the silly escrow service would have to start with. In the business world, garnering trust costs money.

Disclaimer: The above have just been my personal experience. Opinions are worth exactly jack squat and mine is no different.

[rustyh17]

Group purchase for all BFL and Bitfury equipment has been completed. Thank you for participating!