Anti Premine People Are Stoopid

[StephenJH]

You're the type of person who wants your website to buy you a new car but you won't pay your web designer what you pay your mechanic. The end.

[1715275965]

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[frga13]

You are true!
Now go back to sleep  

[Walt Sobchak]

They came looking for the premine, but they had the wrong Lebowski.

[GSnak]

Brilliant thread.

[StephenJH]

You should seriously pin this. I am astute.

FYI...

as·tute 
/əˈst(y)o͞ot/
Adjective
Having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage: "an astute businessman".
Synonyms
shrewd - sly - wily - crafty - canny - artful - sharp

[usahero]

You're the type of person who wants your website to buy you a new car but you won't pay your web designer what you pay your mechanic. The end.

Yes, and the XPM volume agrees with you....

Not.

[FiiNALiZE]

You should seriously pin this. I am astute.

FYI...

as·tute 
/əˈst(y)o͞ot/
Adjective
Having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage: "an astute businessman".
Synonyms
shrewd - sly - wily - crafty - canny - artful - sharp

Wow, look at you being all ostentatious and using big words. 

[GSnak]

You're the type of person who wants your website to buy you a new car but you won't pay your web designer what you pay your mechanic.

Just as an FYI, this makes no sense.

[krasnyoktyabr]

There's nothing about developing a new cryptocurrency that deserves a premine. If a developer is doing a good job, they will be able to get donations from the miners of their coins. A premine for payment is presumptuous and damaging to the currency. You can earn that money by working hard and being a solid developer. We also don't need premines for bounties. Look at IFC, all of the bounties there were provided by miners like me. It builds a community.

Any developer that thinks they deserve a premine for personal gain doesn't have the right outlook. This shouldn't be about maximizing profits. If you create good services and write good code, the miners and money will come.

[markm]

Mining, though is all about the profits?

Or are you maybe suggesting all the people who aren't profit-oriented so lose out in the mining game by sticking to a coin to secure its blockchain should just go become developers and leave mining to the profit-oriented folk?

Why should developers be all about altruistic service hoping maybe someone might tip them a nickel here and there but mining be about raping the suckers and making all the chains less secure?

-MarkM-

[erpbridge]

A premine is understandably biased on a coin that has a quickly sliding diff scale, static reward, and fixed coin quantity cap and starts with a low diff. It can even be biased in some aspects if the coin quantity cap isn't as fixed. If someone can premine to a point where they have a significant percentage of the entire fluid value of the coin to date at any early time, then... well, its just not as valuable to the rest who hold the coin to know that their holdings can be quickly devalued at any one time by a mass selloff.

Now, perhaps, there may be a fair premine. I'm not really good on coin theory, so I'm sure whatever I say will be loaded with holes.

Maybe a coin where the initial diff and reward are fixed for a number of months, rather than effectively a number of hours based on load... and the premine is limited for the amount of time it is premined. After the initial time after premine, and after launch, then switching to a more sliding scale based on load. This theory obviously lets the persons with the largest hashing power acquire the most coins, but doesn't immediately mean that miner zero has accumulated 10 percent of the total coins on a lower diff before the first public diff.

Tons of holes, but one possible thought train... there are many other ways of approaching this.

Another possible way of seeking recompense for developing a coin is maybe something akin to a pay-for-play, although this too is a loaded issue due to a hijacking possibility. Perhaps the coin is developed so that with each trade, a dust portion of the trade fee that is paid is sent toward the dev's wallet address. Like I said, way too easy for that wallet address to be compromised, or perhaps even the protocol changed by a rogue to change the dev reward address.

[digitalindustry]

as•tute 
/əˈst(y)o͞ot/
Adjective
Having or showing an ability to accurately assess situations or people and turn this to one's advantage: "an astute businessman".
Synonyms
shrewd - sly - wily - crafty - canny - artful - sharp

""IFC PUMP!!!!???wow WTF is mean this buy power!!!" - Sambotaella639"

[lucasjkr]

There's nothing about developing a new cryptocurrency that deserves a premine. If a developer is doing a good job, they will be able to get donations from the miners of their coins. A premine for payment is presumptuous and damaging to the currency. You can earn that money by working hard and being a solid developer. We also don't need premines for bounties. Look at IFC, all of the bounties there were provided by miners like me. It builds a community.

Any developer that thinks they deserve a premine for personal gain doesn't have the right outlook. This shouldn't be about maximizing profits. If you create good services and write good code, the miners and money will come.

How many coins had satoshi premined before he provided information to the public? Honest question, I don't know the answer. But I have to believe that it was a number that was somewhat higher than zero. Even if it wasn't, the low difficulty and low level of interest initially would have allowed him to mine quite a bit before miners came in and raised the stakes.

Contrast that to today. A dev spends time and develops a coin with no premine. Releases it, mines the genesis block, and then BAM! everyone hops in, difficulty sky rockets and the dev is completely out gunned. So unless a developer also happens to have a professional mining operation, there's little incentive to do anything, unless they want to beg for scraps afterwards.

I know some will think that's fine, they don't want to see any other coins but the one and only Bitcoin.

I'm fine with the idea of a premine by a developer; however, I think it should be a sensible number. Not to name names, but Cloudcoin recently launched with a 100 million coin cap and a 1 million coin pre-mine. I don't know about any one else, but 1% of the total currency ever to be circulated seems, well out of hand. I don't know what the right number is, but that number seems far and away too higher.

Note, that the dev is giving away some coins here and there to "foster adoption". Id think that adoption might have gone faster had the premine been a more sensible amount. But basically, I think an equilibrium should exist, where devs can premine their creation a little as their way of taking pay. That doesnt' mean go hog wild. And miners/early adopters should take a step back and breathe before crying foul. I saw some people getting ripped about someone elses 20 minute premine that resulted in a few ordinary sized blocks going to the dev.

Obviously its an issue that isn't going away anytime soon.

[iGotSpots]

I am 100% anti-premine and will not ever support a coin that is. Guess that makes me stupid with a double-o

Profits should come from goods or services being provided for a percentage of the transactions

[markm]

Since normally there are at least four or five blocks per second at launch of the usual everyday scamcoin, and maybe way more than that actually, we just know it tends to be several blocks per second, not exactly how vastly many blocks per second, twenty minutes is how many weeks of normal target time between them blocks?

Even if one of the idiots who pretends to the title of developer while really just being some moron who had a thirty second flash in the pan brainwave of how to get rich quick, followed by many minutes, heck maybe adding up to entire hours, emailing a get-a-scamcoin-quick hacker, were to be rewarded like a real developer who actually slaved over a hot keypunch 40 hours a week all year punching out code for a development corporation, that would be what, say, a hundred and fifty thousand dollars?

Add in the fact that unless their flash in the pan was actually a good idea and/or they actually carry it to success it would be a waste of 150,000 dollars to pay them that much and isn't it clear that 150,000 coins should be plenty, a massive fortune in fact unless their stupid scamcoin is so worthless that it won't ever reach a dollar a coin or more...

Surely 150,000 coins is a massive fortune in fact, given that even an only mildly successful coin such as bitcoin sells for somewhere in the range of a hundred to two hundred dollars a coin, even while it is still in only the early stages of development, only four years into the project?

Hmm yeah maybe 150,000 coins is way too much in fact...

-MarkM-

[bcp19]

There's nothing about developing a new cryptocurrency that deserves a premine. If a developer is doing a good job, they will be able to get donations from the miners of their coins. A premine for payment is presumptuous and damaging to the currency. You can earn that money by working hard and being a solid developer. We also don't need premines for bounties. Look at IFC, all of the bounties there were provided by miners like me. It builds a community.

Any developer that thinks they deserve a premine for personal gain doesn't have the right outlook. This shouldn't be about maximizing profits. If you create good services and write good code, the miners and money will come.

How many coins had satoshi premined before he provided information to the public? Honest question, I don't know the answer. But I have to believe that it was a number that was somewhat higher than zero. Even if it wasn't, the low difficulty and low level of interest initially would have allowed him to mine quite a bit before miners came in and raised the stakes.

Contrast that to today. A dev spends time and develops a coin with no premine. Releases it, mines the genesis block, and then BAM! everyone hops in, difficulty sky rockets and the dev is completely out gunned. So unless a developer also happens to have a professional mining operation, there's little incentive to do anything, unless they want to beg for scraps afterwards.

I know some will think that's fine, they don't want to see any other coins but the one and only Bitcoin.

I'm fine with the idea of a premine by a developer; however, I think it should be a sensible number. Not to name names, but Cloudcoin recently launched with a 100 million coin cap and a 1 million coin pre-mine. I don't know about any one else, but 1% of the total currency ever to be circulated seems, well out of hand. I don't know what the right number is, but that number seems far and away too higher.

Note, that the dev is giving away some coins here and there to "foster adoption". Id think that adoption might have gone faster had the premine been a more sensible amount. But basically, I think an equilibrium should exist, where devs can premine their creation a little as their way of taking pay. That doesnt' mean go hog wild. And miners/early adopters should take a step back and breathe before crying foul. I saw some people getting ripped about someone elses 20 minute premine that resulted in a few ordinary sized blocks going to the dev.

Obviously its an issue that isn't going away anytime soon.

The answer to how much Satoshi pre-mined:

http://cryptometer.org/bitcoin_90_day_charts.html

50 BTC by day 5... looks like a massive premine lol

[mustyoshi]

You're the type of person who wants your website to buy you a new car but you won't pay your web designer what you pay your mechanic. The end.

I'll pay my web designer only if the site they produce me is of good quality.