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[almightyruler]

block 412301 proof-of-stake trust = 19742642560
block 412302 proof-of-stake trust = 19743691137 (after PoW blocks on hard fork chain reversed)

Difference : 1048577

So it looks like a PoS block adds more than a million to trust, but a PoW block only adds 1 (one!)

This probably means that in the short term - until people with substantial ORB holdings upgrade their client - each PoS block is going to wipe out all newly mined PoW blocks? It's impossible to mine 1048577 PoW blocks before a PoS block is generated.

This is the same problem CDC has, PoS blocks regularly reversing all PoW blocks.



edit: second reversal, around 519 PoW blocks discarded. There is probably no point mining this coin at this time.

[1714928236]

1714928236

[1714928236]

1714928236

[Mad_Max]

Does this mean that older PoS clients are overriding the new hard fork?

edit: difficulty back down to 0.00026726... I guess until the next network reversal

Yes this correct - this continue until one of the 2 conditions:
- older PoS clients produce one more "bad"(invalid) block(same as cause fail of PoW mining)  - it will be rejected by all new clients and make sync to old "PoS-only" chain impossible
- new clients start produce more PoS blocks and will "outweigh" the old chain - new chain became primary/canonical

[Mad_Max]

block 412301 proof-of-stake trust = 19742642560
block 412302 proof-of-stake trust = 19743691137 (after PoW blocks on hard fork chain reversed)

Difference : 1048577

So it looks like a PoS block adds more than a million to trust, but a PoW block only adds 1 (one!)

This probably means that in the short term - until people with substantial ORB holdings upgrade their client - each PoS block is going to wipe out all newly mined PoW blocks? It's impossible to mine 1048577 PoW blocks before a PoS block is generated.

This is the same problem CDC has, PoS blocks regularly reversing all PoW blocks.



edit: second reversal, around 519 PoW blocks discarded. There is probably no point mining this coin at this time.

Yes you got situation correctly. PoS adds tons of trust - original ORB dev reduced weight of PoW Mining to almost zero (it only used for the issue of new coins)

But important refinement - not every block in old PoS chain rolls back all PoW blocks - for new clients PoS mining works too and adds same trust (>= 1 mill each) too.
And some PoS miner already work on new clients in new chain (including my own wallet with lots of relative old coins)
So rolls back happens only when old clients manages to create a longer chain of PoS blocks.

[Mad_Max]

edit: second reversal, around 519 PoW blocks discarded. There is probably no point mining this coin at this time.

Yes

PoW Mining at new client currently makes little sense - if only for the test(make sure it works), curiosity or just some fun - with small hashing power.
For example i connect only one my weakest card (HD 5770 ~ 150 kh/s). All other (now i have 7 card in 2 comps total) mining LiteCoin and other more stable ALTs

Now we need to increase production of PoS blocks first.
If you want to help with this - I can give advice how to produce more PoS blocks- welcome to PM.  

[testbug]

@Mad_Max

once again nice work man

I think it's good, haveing you around orbitcoin

The solo mining seems to be working again, also hashrate just increased to 7MH/s on the total pool.

But, i send some coins as a test to my trading acc on crypts and coins-e and they didnt show up yet.

I have the bad feeling, that we are just creating a total new independet blockchain and all transactions, being established, to old wallets will get lost.

Please tell me that this isn't right, i am a sth like a noob for coins

Greetings and a NICE WEEKEND =)=)=)

[leahayay]

@Mad_Max

once again nice work man

I think it's good, haveing you around orbitcoin

The solo mining seems to be working again, also hashrate just increased to 7MH/s on the total pool.

wow coin revived, party time thanks

[almightyruler]

But, i send some coins as a test to my trading acc on crypts and coins-e and they didnt show up yet.

I have the bad feeling, that we are just creating a total new independet blockchain and all transactions, being established, to old wallets will get lost.

Same. I can mine, and I sent a small amount to cryptsy (existing balance, NOT newly mined), but it's not showing.

[testbug]

But, i send some coins as a test to my trading acc on crypts and coins-e and they didnt show up yet.

I have the bad feeling, that we are just creating a total new independet blockchain and all transactions, being established, to old wallets will get lost.

Same. I can mine, and I sent a small amount to cryptsy (existing balance, NOT newly mined), but it's not showing.

I still have that issue. Also coins-e.com transaction id verification isnt accepting my transaction ID.
Maybe this will just need some time, until other wallets are getting updated. Transaction from my virtuall machine test wallets on new version are working perfectly, also from my old wallet to my new test wallet.

[Mad_Max]

@Mad_Max

once again nice work man

I think it's good, haveing you around orbitcoin

The solo mining seems to be working again, also hashrate just increased to 7MH/s on the total pool.

But, i send some coins as a test to my trading acc on crypts and coins-e and they didnt show up yet.

I have the bad feeling, that we are just creating a total new independet blockchain and all transactions, being established, to old wallets will get lost.

Please tell me that this isn't right, i am a sth like a noob for coins

Greetings and a NICE WEEKEND =)=)=)

Of course we creating new blockchain now.
But it is not total new - up to some point of time (near 11-12 Jan 2014 i think, need to compare chains to figure out concrete block number from which there was a division) it is a 100% 1:1 copy of original blockchain. After this moment(now) it is separate and independent.

Any transaction to exchanges will not pass as long as they use the old(official) versions of the client.

In cryptocoins world no any transaction/coins never lost until you lost your wallet.dat(private keys for coins) or send it to a nonexistent address.

In particular this coins from example (send from new client to service or user who use old client and can not see this transaction right now) will be available to the payee as soon as he updates its client software and rescan new blockchain.
Or as alternative if exchanges and main part of other Orb user refuse to upgrade to the new version you can always downgrade (install an older official version) and use old wallet.dat from bacup and all the coins are in place (as in the old blockchain the respective transactions is absent and coins not spend).
Excluding coins received in last days from PoW mining of course (because PoW does not exist in the old ver) - these coins will disappear after downgrade.

[Mad_Max]

Think i found point of blockchain fork for official(PoS only) and new (with PoW fixed)

Code:

hash=fb62148fa9a6fbebf83dc1ef748fa6b10f92645716ad866d23c8d4d02693f437  height=412348  trust=19791931471  date=01/10/14 07:38:26

It was another "time traveling block"

..................
1cc6da2ef20005762ac22b76bc08ced73f4a12454f82428b269374c8eb8b1af9  height=412343  trust=19786685690  date=01/10/14 07:32:47
9b88065a229c80a60f11ff95e6be7ca5804d546f79fbbb435b1f977488e00496  height=412344  trust=19787734267  date=01/10/14 07:33:37
0e7e6bc8b243f336f159c5b2850660a17a2b794d05081495b12bdea9e50778e7  height=412345  trust=19788782844  date=01/10/14 07:35:34
6d9667e4a2006910daaab4b9c180cbfecabbbe2e98cb2f43d6d0292ff2106c26  height=412346  trust=19789831421  date=01/10/14 07:35:59
090d5bb1d7e1a04e3d641f1486320f08ced44dc98277dde3c3c52892ab670e0f  height=412347  trust=19790882894  date=01/10/14 07:38:38
fb62148fa9a6fbebf83dc1ef748fa6b10f92645716ad866d23c8d4d02693f437  height=412348  trust=19791931471  date=01/10/14 07:38:26
..................

Same as ruined PoW mining in previos time (at 30/31 Dec 2013) (although at that time deviation of time was much more - near an hour)
So it was corrected in my version by added patch and NOT corrected in old official versions.
This led to differences in all subsequent blocks after #412384  and the impossibility of further synchronization between old and new versions

[Mad_Max]

If anybody need here fresh list of nodes running new clients (for clean install or if any difficulties with sync):

Code:

addnode=95.24.6.40
addnode=122.150.39.166
addnode=89.28.89.80
addnode=137.116.129.120
addnode=24.47.5.209
addnode=79.130.27.252
addnode=46.175.28.101
addnode=92.112.193.46
addnode=122.150.54.85
addnode=178.27.212.144
addnode=94.153.88.241
addnode=79.227.29.59
addnode=79.130.29.35
addnode=217.149.245.226
addnode=37.197.139.221
addnode=85.73.238.16
addnode=176.14.86.146
addnode=83.82.139.178
addnode=62.43.129.239
addnode=46.53.195.144
addnode=176.215.208.217
addnode=146.255.2.70
addnode=77.186.193.245
addnode=146.90.107.117

[AltCurrency]

Wow orb is skyrocketing!!!

[Mad_Max]

Wow orb is skyrocketing!!!

And price is fall back (~ 3 times) already
But somebody already bought ~40k coins. This is the way nearly half of all issued coins (except premine)
Probable it is first part of 'buy-back' operation from original dev (TheRedMist).
And all story with PoW mining down, mythical stories about attacks on the network, artificial long delays with fix, the release of non-working patches, disappearance from the Internet for more than a week, ignoring all questions and appeals and so on - just parts of plan for sow some panic / disbelief in coin to crash exchange rates and buy coins very cheap.
And then all wishing to sell will end - the developer will appear "in shining armor on a white horse" and finally release a working version fixes and begin to address other issues. And start pumping the exchange rate.

[Mad_Max]

Hmm

Looks like some of the people using new ver somehow stuck on the side blockchain.
Last 2 days I see strange activity in the new network - some clients with fewer block count (about 100-400 blocks behind) and lower levels of trust score are connecting but instead to be synced with the latest the longest chain instead try to send their own blocks from shorter chain.
Or start to download part of longest blockchain many times in a circle (somewhere in the 411k to 421k, then back to ~411к, download to ~421k, back to 411k and so on ) .

Maybe it's some kind of sabotage to new fork (this situation creates a lot of parasitic traffic on the network and create a high load on CPU where new client running ) but possibly a just some failure/glitch and of these clients for some reason just can not sync normally...

Owners of the following ip addresses should pay attention:
137.116.129.120   
203.45.89.214
89.28.89.80
31.17.16.109

If you do NOT do  something special (such as tests of their own modified versions of the client) check the logs - you may have to redownload the whole blockchain again. (delete blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat from data folder, add fresh list of nodes and start again, -rescan wallet after sync)
If while you are mining PoW now - stop it - all mined blocks will be orphaned. In fact they already orphans now, just for some reason your client can not synchronize with the main chain.
For the record - the current best chain for the unofficial (1.3.2) client:

Code:

new best=6ae14cd4b9e7cc092519c17e00bfeb1098aafb0ffd3850537b86314e77d25cd1  height=427915  trust=20093010506  date=01/15/14 17:27:52

(time is GMT/UTC)

[breakbeater]

I added the new nodes, deleted blockchain (2 times), but my client synced only until block 427654.
You said -  "the current best chain height=427915"
What can i do?

[andrewha2010]

Hmm

Looks like some of the people using new ver somehow stuck on the side blockchain.
Last 2 days I see strange activity in the new network - some clients with fewer block count (about 100-400 blocks behind) and lower levels of trust score are connecting but instead to be synced with the latest the longest chain instead try to send their own blocks from shorter chain.
Or start to download part of longest blockchain many times in a circle (somewhere in the 411k to 421k, then back to ~411к, download to ~421k, back to 411k and so on ) .

Maybe it's some kind of sabotage to new fork (this situation creates a lot of parasitic traffic on the network and create a high load on CPU where new client running ) but possibly a just some failure/glitch and of these clients for some reason just can not sync normally...

Owners of the following ip addresses should pay attention:
137.116.129.120   
203.45.89.214
89.28.89.80
31.17.16.109

If you do NOT do  something special (such as tests of their own modified versions of the client) check the logs - you may have to redownload the whole blockchain again. (delete blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat from data folder, add fresh list of nodes and start again, -rescan wallet after sync)
If while you are mining PoW now - stop it - all mined blocks will be orphaned. In fact they already orphans now, just for some reason your client can not synchronize with the main chain.
For the record - the current best chain for the unofficial (1.3.2) client:

Code:

new best=6ae14cd4b9e7cc092519c17e00bfeb1098aafb0ffd3850537b86314e77d25cd1  height=427915  trust=20093010506  date=01/15/14 17:27:52

(time is GMT/UTC)

It is certainly a glitch, because I mine solo with new wallet 1.3.2.0 (one of mentioned IPs is mine) and nothing I send to cryptsy or coinse is valid. And I burned the electricity for nothing as I understand from your message and I certainly do nothing special with the client. I'm re-downloading the chain now..

[Mad_Max]

I added the new nodes, deleted blockchain (2 times), but my client synced only until block 427654.
You said -  "the current best chain height=427915"
What can i do?

Not sure what is happening and what is the cause of problems with synchronization...
If problem still persist (i sow what 2 client from my warning list now synced OK, may be one of them you) you can also try to connect to one of the fully synchronized node directly and see what comes of it.
In Orbitcoin.conf replace temporarily
all addnode= by one connect=
as ip try first 2 from my list above (its online, fully synced and ports is open for inbound connections at time as i write this post)
If even this not help i would like have a look at the file debug.log from data folder. If the problem persists and you do not mind sharing some personal information also contained in it (like ip address, folder where client installed, time when it is run) and send me a link to the archive via PM.
I will try to determine the cause of such behavior.

P.S.
Generally there is a simple, fast and 100% working way to catch up with the current chain - I can just upload to online storage archive with files  blk0001.dat and blkindex.dat from fully synchronized client.
But this is the wrong/bad way to sync ...

[Mad_Max]

It is certainly a glitch, because I mine solo with new wallet 1.3.2.0 (one of mentioned IPs is mine) and nothing I send to cryptsy or coinse is valid. And I burned the electricity for nothing as I understand from your message and I certainly do nothing special with the client. I'm re-downloading the chain now..

I warn about risk of PoW mining in new fork from beginning: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265555.msg4426523#msg4426523

Number of nodes online with new client running and port is open(by ISP,router,firewall,settings in client) for incoming connection is still too low to form stable well interconnected network...

My guess what happened - a few clients(nodes) appeared in an isolated sub-network - with active connections to each other (which allows you to start mining and the client indicates that it is synchronized with the network) but with no links to the rest of the network. Later when such a link established something prevented  client from dropping the current (lagging) chain and synchronize with the main (for example number of blocks to be orphaned my be somehow limited, and ORB  produce a lot of blocks fast - just one day in "isolation" = near 3000 blocks differences between the chains, which the client would try to replace at one time if connect to client with other longer chain) . And since this nodes fail to sync to main chain they continued to build its own separate chain in parallel...

About exchanges read my other post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265555.msg4426523#msg4426523

[almightyruler]

About exchanges read my other post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265555.msg4426523#msg4426523

Sent you a PM about that 6 days ago.

[Mad_Max]

Code:

[quote author=almightyruler link=topic=265555.msg4539881#msg4539881 date=1389852226]
Sent you a PM about that 6 days ago. ;)
[/quote]
Sorry, have missed this message.
Sent recommendations to PM. 

Update to list of nodes with new client (1.3.2) running (although only part of them have open ports for inbound connects)

addnode=94.181.77.215
addnode=85.17.81.169
addnode=85.9.211.234
addnode=95.24.7.97
addnode=209.173.81.165
addnode=81.99.211.24
addnode=72.221.71.145
addnode=173.88.48.75
addnode=203.214.145.50
addnode=46.246.89.30
addnode=94.153.88.241
addnode=162.243.9.179
addnode=87.236.196.77
addnode=217.149.245.226
addnode=76.95.191.10
addnode=203.45.89.214
addnode=96.52.20.52
addnode=108.185.77.100
addnode=185.15.248.81
addnode=106.68.188.152
addnode=23.226.229.149
addnode=84.46.24.244
addnode=122.150.39.166
addnode=89.28.89.80
addnode=206.188.78.215
addnode=137.116.129.120
addnode=24.47.5.209
addnode=69.165.133.70
addnode=82.24.30.12
addnode=79.130.27.252
addnode=46.175.28.101
addnode=92.112.193.46
addnode=124.169.206.182
addnode=178.27.212.144
addnode=79.227.29.59
addnode=37.197.139.221
addnode=85.73.238.16
addnode=176.14.86.146

Current best chain

Code:

new best=0000001b01e02d943a96abed3ca8d728dac67dff48219e141be60a33f3771f89  height=506593  trust=21606793339  date=02/13/14 05:39:25