SCAM ALERT: "Mastercoin" Official Launch (Exodus address) (read first)

[spiral_mind]

So I've been posting in "dacoinminister"'s thread about "Mastercoin". He asks people to send him coins directly in exchange for "1000 mastercoins" but there's currently no client and no source code. Once he gets "enough money to develop full time" he'll get around to making those he says.

Could this be any more obvious of a scam?

-He controls the creation of "mastercoins"
-You send him Bitcoins directly in exchange for a promise of future "mastercoins"
-He then develops the project at his own pleasure with no way to keep him honest
-Nothing stopping him from running with your Bitcoins or making as many mastercoins as he wants
-He deletes any posts criticizing his project

YOU CAN'T MAKE A VIABLE ALT COIN BASED UPON CLOSED SOURCE AND GIVING ONE GUY A BUNCH OF MONEY

Can you say nigerian prince scam?

He deleted the following post over 10 times rather than reply to it:

This is a scam. He keeps deleting my posts hoping someone else will send money to his scam.

"@dacoinminster: In order to succeed as an open source project leader, you will need to keep this in mind: http://youtu.be/ZSFDm3UYkeE"

ITS NOT OPEN SOURCE. There is no source code. There are no "mastercoins". He will take your money and run because there's NOTHING keeping him honest.

Unfortunately, Reddit remains (mostly) a swirling cesspool of ignorance.

I think what you really meant to say is you're butthurt because I exposed your bullshit on Reddit and you can't self moderate the thread.

I'm sorry you have lost faith in the basic decency of most people.  You are right there is risk in sending him money, but people have the right to spend their money how they want.  Your concerns have been voiced (he left my quote of you), and you are derailing productive discussion.

We shouldn't have to have faith in the creator if the protocol is sound. We didn't have to have faith in Satoshi Nakamoto or buy Bitcoins from him. The rules of the system create the system. He's set this system up to let him cheat as much as he wants with nothing keeping him honest so that's what is going to happen. This is a fatal flaw with the "project" not a "concern".

He's going to keep deleting this post and I'm going to keep posting it. If he had a valid answer to any of these criticisms he'd reply instead of deleting.

SCAM. STAY AWAY.

Mods please move his post to the "scams" section. Link to original (SCAM don't send him coins): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.0

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[jimbobway]

I disapprove of spiral_mind and this thread.

[spiral_mind]

I disapprove of spiral_mind and this thread.

Another sock puppet account of dacoinminister?

Any particular reason you disapprove of me? Let me guess. Because I exposed your bullshit before you had very many people send you coins at all.

Impressive how many "hero member" sock puppets you've accumulated. That's not very difficult though considering you've been planning this scam for a long time and "hero member" status is based only upon number of posts.

Care to share any thoughts as to why I'm wrong?

[torba]

This seems like an investment risk more than a scam.
His "coin" is similar to ripple, whoever buys in will probably know the risk of a single-minted close-source altcoin. Let it be.

[spiral_mind]

This seems like an investment risk more than a scam.
His "coin" is similar to ripple, whoever buys in will probably know the risk of a single-minted close-source altcoin. Let it be.

He's asking for money before anything has actually been created. Ripple gave out free ripples and let people voluntarily assign them value.

This is nothing like ripple. It's a scam. It's not a "risky investment" it's him asking for cash money right now in exchange for promises of future money. It's a nigerian prince scheme masquerading as an alt-coin.

[adamstgBit]

I disapprove of spiral_mind and this thread.

me too


spiral_mind thanks for the warning, but i think your wrong.

first, every Mastercoin TX will recorded on the block chain so it wont be hard to see if he starts creating them out of thin air.
second, the protocol he plans on implementing will be open-source, i'll read the source code, and not this conspiracy theory

This seems like an investment risk more than a scam.
His "coin" is similar to ripple, whoever buys in will probably know the risk of a single-minted close-source altcoin. Let it be.

Mastercoin ( if implemented like he said he would ) will offer perfect information to all participants at all times.

It should put ripple to shame.

[spiral_mind]

spiral_mind thanks for the warning, but i think your wrong.

first, every Mastercoin TX will recorded on the block chain so it wont be hard to see if he starts creating them out of thin air.
second, the protocol he plans on implementing will be open-source, i'll read the source code, and not this conspiracy theory

-There is currently no source code yet he's asking for money right now in exchange for promises alone
-It's not a conspiracy theory, this is what the creator has said about his project
-Putting messages on the blockchain is useless unless someone actually values those messages somehow. Since there's nothing keeping the creator honest besides fear that his fake money will be devalued these blockchain records are useless. He'll just run off with his real money (Bitcoins) and post some lame message about how "he can't afford to keep developing since he's too poor"

Mastercoin ( if implemented like he said he would ) will offer perfect information to all participants at all times.

It should put ripple to shame.

And now it's pretty obvious this is a sock puppet account as well.
You were one of the only people in the other thread to post positively about it.
Is it really so unlikely that someone would create a few hero member sockpuppets in order to scam people out of a lot of money? Nope it's not unlikely at all.

[cbeast]

The idea is pretty neat. It's understandable to ask for early adopters to crowd fund the project. He has not released any code other than pseudocode, but that is still more than Opencoin has done.

[dacoinminster]

Are you guys really all my sock puppets?? Dang, I wish I had known - I could have used you a lot of times in the past!

[adamstgBit]

spiral_mind thanks for the warning, but i think your wrong.

first, every Mastercoin TX will recorded on the block chain so it wont be hard to see if he starts creating them out of thin air.
second, the protocol he plans on implementing will be open-source, i'll read the source code, and not this conspiracy theory

-There is currently no source code yet he's asking for money right now in exchange for promises alone
-It's not a conspiracy theory, this is what the creator has said about his project
-Putting messages on the blockchain is useless unless someone actually values those messages somehow. Since there's nothing keeping the creator honest besides fear that his fake money will be devalued these blockchain records are useless. He'll just run off with his real money (Bitcoins) and post some lame message about how "he can't afford to keep developing since he's too poor"

Mastercoin ( if implemented like he said he would ) will offer perfect information to all participants at all times.

It should put ripple to shame.

And now it's pretty obvious this is a sock puppet account as well.
You were one of the only people in the other thread to post positively about it.

-There is currently no source code yet he's asking for money right now in exchange for promises alone
 yes this is somewhat worrying, I am excited about the project, but will refrain from investing until i can be sure he can actually do it ( but if he can't someone else will, this is a powerful idea)

-It's not a conspiracy theory, this is what the creator has said about his project
 there was no mention about the hole project being a scam in the other thread.

-Putting messages on the blockchain is useless unless someone actually values those messages somehow. Since there's nothing keeping the creator honest...
 I really don't need to trust him, the blockchain will record every tx, and i can reimplement this protocol, and make my own client.

- He'll just run off with his real money (Bitcoins) and post some lame message about how "he can't afford to keep developing since he's too poor"
Yes, investing early ( before the client is up and running ) is quite risky,

lol, I am not a sock puppet... I created Abstract Coin!  


anyway, risky investment is risky, but calling it a flat out scam is not cool.

[spiral_mind]

Are you guys really all my sock puppets?? Dang, I wish I had known - I could have used you a lot of times in the past!

Interesting how many single line posts that don't add anything to the discussion the people who say positive things about Mastercoin have. If you use a VPN we'd never really be able to know for sure they were your sockpuppets, but from the post history on all of these accounts it definitely appears to be an astroturfing operation. I'm sure you figured that if enough hero members said it sounded worthwhile you'd get plenty of noobs with coins to send them right to you. Accounts are bought and sold all the time on this forum, and your member status is determined only by your number of posts making it easy to fake yourself.

I thought you were going offline for a while? You must have gotten tired of posting on your sock puppets, or couldn't stand seeing my reply in your other thread linger so long. I'm sure you'll delete it and make me re-post it.

Feel free to tell everyone what is going to keep you honest besides the hypothetical devaluation of your promise money.

[adamstgBit]

Are you guys really all my sock puppets?? Dang, I wish I had known - I could have used you a lot of times in the past!

Interesting how many single line posts that don't add anything to the discussion the people who say positive things about Mastercoin have. If you use a VPN we'd never really be able to know for sure they were your sockpuppets, but from the post history on all of these accounts it definitely appears to be an astroturfing operation. I'm sure you figured that if enough hero members said it sounded worthwhile you'd get plenty of noobs with coins to send them right to you. Accounts are bought and sold all the time on this forum, and your member status is determined only by your number of posts making it easy to fake yourself.

I thought you were going offline for a while? You must have gotten tired of posting on your sock puppets, or couldn't stand seeing my reply in your other thread linger so long.

oh come on i'm not a sock puppet!

or am i?    mind blow!

[jimbobway]

I am a sock puppet.  U got me spiral!

[spiral_mind]

oh come on i'm not a sock puppet!

or am i?    mind blow!

Well it's impossible to prove. So that's why I keep asking dacoinminister or anyone else who thinks its such a great idea to debate the points that I've raised rather than attack me personally or just say something blandly positive about mastercoin being an investment. Even calling it an investment at all is using very loaded language considering what you're proposing (sending money blindly to an account in exchange for a promise of future money).

Let's bring some substance to this debate. What's going to keep this guy honest at all? By sending him your coins you don't even really own anything and he hasn't promised that he will even complete the project or set a goal. He linked a LinkedIn account but anyone could link anyone's LinkedIn account so that is meaningless. He's nothing more than a forum identity and those are bought and sold and faked easily.

Now all the accounts he's posted with are posting one line responses. Looks great man nice defense there. Tell me how you're not a nigerian prince scam and I'll stop posting.

[cbeast]

Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.

[spiral_mind]

Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.

Do you even know what a sock puppet is? It means you've got multiple accounts posting as if they were different people. They're used to create a fake appearance of support or obscure a discussion.

You've dismissed the concern about money being sent to an address the creator controls before he has developed anything again. What do you think about that? Let me guess its a "risky investment".

No. It's not an investment. It's sending this guy money for promises and nothing even as good as kickstarter or the credit card companies to help you out.

[cbeast]

Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.

Do you even know what a sock puppet is? It means you've got multiple accounts posting as if they were different people. They're used to create a fake appearance of support or obscure a discussion.

You've dismissed the concern about money being sent to an address the creator controls before he has developed anything again. What do you think about that? Let me guess its a "risky investment".

No. It's not an investment. It's sending this guy money for promises and nothing even as good as kickstarter or the credit card companies to help you out.

I agree with you that caution is warranted with sending money. I don't even recommend buying Bitcoin with money you can't afford to lose. Do you have any reason to believe that his 'fake address' scheme of tracking transactions won't work?

[spiral_mind]

Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.

Do you even know what a sock puppet is? It means you've got multiple accounts posting as if they were different people. They're used to create a fake appearance of support or obscure a discussion.

You've dismissed the concern about money being sent to an address the creator controls before he has developed anything again. What do you think about that? Let me guess its a "risky investment".

No. It's not an investment. It's sending this guy money for promises and nothing even as good as kickstarter or the credit card companies to help you out.

I agree with you that caution is warranted with sending money. I don't even recommend buying Bitcoin with money you can't afford to lose. Do you have any reason to believe that his 'fake address' scheme of tracking transactions won't work?

Good job glossing over the fact that he is currently accepting money into an account without releasing any source code. You have no way to take possession of your "mastercoins" even if he says you have them.

This isn't like investing in an alt-coin. It's not risky because it's an online transaction. It's not about whether or not you can "afford to lose the money" (you keep saying that a lot). It's risky because you're sending money directly to a pseudonymous user for nothing but a promise of more money in the future. Aka Nigerian prince scam.

The fake address scheme is irrelevant until you explain what is stopping the owner of the "Exodus address" from simply keeping the Bitcoins and walking away.

[cbeast]

Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.

Do you even know what a sock puppet is? It means you've got multiple accounts posting as if they were different people. They're used to create a fake appearance of support or obscure a discussion.

You've dismissed the concern about money being sent to an address the creator controls before he has developed anything again. What do you think about that? Let me guess its a "risky investment".

No. It's not an investment. It's sending this guy money for promises and nothing even as good as kickstarter or the credit card companies to help you out.

I agree with you that caution is warranted with sending money. I don't even recommend buying Bitcoin with money you can't afford to lose. Do you have any reason to believe that his 'fake address' scheme of tracking transactions won't work?

Good job glossing over the fact that he is currently accepting money into an account without releasing any source code. You have no way to take possession of your "mastercoins" even if he says you have them.

This isn't like investing in an alt-coin. It's not risky because it's an online transaction. It's not about whether or not you can "afford to lose the money" (you keep saying that a lot). It's risky because you're sending money directly to a pseudonymous user for nothing but a promise of more money in the future. Aka Nigerian prince scam.

The fake address scheme is irrelevant until you explain what is stopping the owner of the "Exodus address" from simply keeping the Bitcoins and walking away.

So you are claiming that he is not the panelist at the San Jose convention sitting next to Jeff Garzik. Fair enough. Let's investigate this.

[spiral_mind]

Spiral, you made no points to debate that have not been addressed. Moderating to reduce noise is fine. Your thread will be entertained by concerned folks *if* there are valid discussion points. It's a little early to accuse this of being a scam. I would suggest changing your alert to something less dramatic unless of course you are a sock puppet yourself.

Do you even know what a sock puppet is? It means you've got multiple accounts posting as if they were different people. They're used to create a fake appearance of support or obscure a discussion.

You've dismissed the concern about money being sent to an address the creator controls before he has developed anything again. What do you think about that? Let me guess its a "risky investment".

No. It's not an investment. It's sending this guy money for promises and nothing even as good as kickstarter or the credit card companies to help you out.

I agree with you that caution is warranted with sending money. I don't even recommend buying Bitcoin with money you can't afford to lose. Do you have any reason to believe that his 'fake address' scheme of tracking transactions won't work?

Good job glossing over the fact that he is currently accepting money into an account without releasing any source code. You have no way to take possession of your "mastercoins" even if he says you have them.

This isn't like investing in an alt-coin. It's not risky because it's an online transaction. It's not about whether or not you can "afford to lose the money" (you keep saying that a lot). It's risky because you're sending money directly to a pseudonymous user for nothing but a promise of more money in the future. Aka Nigerian prince scam.

The fake address scheme is irrelevant until you explain what is stopping the owner of the "Exodus address" from simply keeping the Bitcoins and walking away.

So you are claiming that he is not the panelist at the San Jose convention sitting next to Jeff Garzik. Fair enough. Let's investigate this.

If he really is that guy it's still a scammy proposal. He gives no guarantees or goals for his project, releases no source, yet expects cash now. I just don't think someone would be stupid enough to post their real identity when running a scam like this. You never know though, he might think he's smarter than everyone else, criminals often do. In the other thread you posted "if he can convince people to send him the coins he deserves them". Total sociopathic thinking there.