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Author Topic: 0.01 transaction fee required for 0.38 BT transactoin?  (Read 1912 times)
pdki
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July 06, 2011, 06:23:49 PM
 #1

Hi,

my client tells me a 0.01 transaction fee is required for 0.38 BT transaction, because of its size, complexity or use of recently received funds. This is roughly 3% transaction fee, nearly what paypal charges. Can someone tell me why this is required for such a small transaction?

I am using the mac client 0.321-beta.

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Bitcoin Swami
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July 06, 2011, 06:24:39 PM
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maybe you need the newest version.  The old version will still charge you .01 .. now its like .0005 or something.
dunand
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July 06, 2011, 06:26:12 PM
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Go with the 0.3.23 client.

It will be a little bit less.
vectorvictor
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July 06, 2011, 06:37:03 PM
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I have the same problem, with 0.3.21-beta for Mac OS X.  I haven't been able to send, even 0.01, because "This transaction is over the size limit".

Really?  A penny is so huge that it requires a 100% transaction fee?  This isn't a bug?  I thought bitcoin could be sent for free, but it might take longer (lower priority)?

I will upgrade, but I would still like to know how it's supposed to work.  Thanks.


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July 06, 2011, 06:38:32 PM
 #5

Get a newer client, problem solved. (Well, reduced to 0.0005)

The size limit is the transaction size, not teh value in BTC. If you received the 0.38BTC as many small transactions, you'll have a large transaction.
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July 06, 2011, 06:49:04 PM
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I have the same problem, with 0.3.21-beta for Mac OS X.  I haven't been able to send, even 0.01, because "This transaction is over the size limit".

Really?  A penny is so huge that it requires a 100% transaction fee?  This isn't a bug?  I thought bitcoin could be sent for free, but it might take longer (lower priority)?
it prevents transaction spam. also, if a transaction has too little or no fee, other nodes may not accept it, causing 0/unconfirmed forever

It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

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vectorvictor
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July 07, 2011, 01:57:25 AM
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Okay, thanks for the clarification guys.



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July 09, 2011, 02:20:40 AM
 #8

How large a transaction must one make not to have to pay the fee?

Mine is .0005 for a .001 which I find patently absurd.

So much for "we're trading free".

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
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July 09, 2011, 05:34:51 AM
 #9

How large a transaction must one make not to have to pay the fee?

Mine is .0005 for a .001 which I find patently absurd.

So much for "we're trading free".

Who said anything about trading for free?
these fees are less costly then pay pal or the bank for that matter Cheesy
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July 09, 2011, 05:42:58 AM
 #10

How large a transaction must one make not to have to pay the fee?

Mine is .0005 for a .001 which I find patently absurd.

So much for "we're trading free".

Who said anything about trading for free?
these fees are less costly then pay pal or the bank for that matter Cheesy

When I write a check that is free.

When I hand over cash that is free

When I do a paypal to paypal with two non business accounts that is free

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Xenland
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July 09, 2011, 07:28:31 AM
 #11

Ah see when you say it like that, that makes more sense to me.
But what if someone dosnt take paypal, isnt their a fee to transfer to your bank account?
And you surely must pay taxes?(dont have to answer that one Tongue)
Also i did not know about the checks being transaction free, i think i might start to use that then credit/debit cards. stupid overdafts fees the really shouldn't let anybody take out more then they have, is there and overdraft fee for checks where you bank at?

How large a transaction must one make not to have to pay the fee?

Mine is .0005 for a .001 which I find patently absurd.

So much for "we're trading free".

Who said anything about trading for free?
these fees are less costly then pay pal or the bank for that matter Cheesy

When I write a check that is free.

When I hand over cash that is free

When I do a paypal to paypal with two non business accounts that is free

gentakin
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July 09, 2011, 11:42:37 AM
 #12

All transactions with at least 1 output below 0.01BTC require a mandatory fee or won't be forwarded by the network, AFAIK. So you will have to pay a fee for 0.001BTC transactions, but not always for transactions of 1BTC, for example.

If you have some coins sitting in your wallet for a longer time, then you might not have to pay a fee at all. It depends on the size of your transaction (=> number of inputs, so if you received a lot of small transactions and then want to send all of them at once, that transaction will have a fee!), how long those coins have been sitting in your wallet, and if the amount is below 0.01BTC. If all that is fine, the transaction is free. AFAIK.

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July 09, 2011, 02:46:47 PM
 #13

After doing some testing I think you are right that for a "mature" account (I have one two weeks old with about a dozen inputs, all small) 0.1 or over has no fee. But for a new account 2 days old with two inputs 0.1 still requires a payment. My guess right now is when the 0.1 input has more than 100 confirmations it will probably allow feeless transfer.

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gochk
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July 10, 2011, 02:35:38 AM
 #14

What?  Huh
I just came across this thread ... there's a fee for transferring btc out? How about from mining pool to my account? I haven't paid much attention so far because I wasn't getting much to begin with; and there's a fee?

And why and how a different bitcoin client determines the fee?

So does that mean I should keep my btc in my pool until it's really high to minimize the fees? I don't trust any pools; so I have been transferring btc out once it's confirmed. Should I stop doing that?
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July 10, 2011, 03:12:47 AM
 #15

What?  Huh
I just came across this thread ... there's a fee for transferring btc out? How about from mining pool to my account? I haven't paid much attention so far because I wasn't getting much to begin with; and there's a fee?

And why and how a different bitcoin client determines the fee?

So does that mean I should keep my btc in my pool until it's really high to minimize the fees? I don't trust any pools; so I have been transferring btc out once it's confirmed. Should I stop doing that?


There is some unknown formula that i have not figured out yet. I can transfer .01 out  of my two week old account with a dozen or so transactions no problem.

My new wallet about three days old with two transactions wants to charge me a fee no matter what I try.

GRRR!

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
JoelKatz
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July 10, 2011, 03:52:06 AM
 #16

If you're transferring a very small amount from multiple sources using funds that haven't sat around for very long, there will be a fee. If you're willing to wait longer, there will be no fee.

In order to exchange bitcoins with someone, you must induce a miner to include your transaction in a block. That's the way bitcoins work.

I am an employee of Ripple.
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July 10, 2011, 11:31:33 AM
 #17

If you're transferring a very small amount from multiple sources using funds that haven't sat around for very long, there will be a fee. If you're willing to wait longer, there will be no fee.

In order to exchange bitcoins with someone, you must induce a miner to include your transaction in a block. That's the way bitcoins work.

I was hoping to get a more numerically definitive idea of "small ammount" and "very long".

It's obvious that there is lots and lots to learn about this new game. 8^)

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
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July 12, 2011, 08:58:13 PM
 #18

I tried to send 0.0000001 to someone and was prompted with the 0.01 fee notice.

I waited a while (a day?), and was able to send the 0.0000001 later without paying a fee. I figured the fee was to keep transactions down.

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July 13, 2011, 06:26:58 AM
 #19

How large a transaction must one make not to have to pay the fee?
Mine is .0005 for a .001 which I find patently absurd.
So much for "we're trading free".

All outputs must be at least 0.01 or you'll need a 0.0005 fee for the transaction.

If you want to make transactions that pay less than 0.01, then you ought to use sendmany to make a single transaction with many small outputs at once and then pay only one fee.

Without the anti-DOS behavior imposed by relaying and mining nodes, a single system of mine could saturate the cpus of just about every client in the network, and in in a week add a gigabyte of data to the blockchain that every client must currently download, store, and process.   Go spin up a miner on testnet with the fee rules disabled. You'll see it spewing 1MB blocks as fast as it mines them.

The fees are less than a penny in value (unless you're running old software, stop doing that!), which is pretty cheap for an operation which will be saved forever by all full nodes of bitcoin— and are only imposed against transactions which objectively look similar to attack patterns  (very tiny outputs, quick turnarounds, and or/lots of data).

As far as the 0.38 transaction goes:  Either it's comprised of lots of 0.01 inputs, in which case, it's taking a kilobyte of data to represent, thus getting subjected to a fee.  Or it's a quick turn around of an input that just landed in the wallet.  If it's the latter then simply waiting a bit (a day or so most likely) will make it work fee-less.

The bitcoin software tries to use the oldest inputs available to make new transactions (in order to get the highest priority),  but if coins which just landed in your wallet are all you have then thats what it will use, and your activity will look too indistinguishable from an attack where someone is ping-ponging coins between wallets quickly for the system to allow it without a fee.

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July 13, 2011, 03:19:02 PM
 #20

How large a transaction must one make not to have to pay the fee?
Mine is .0005 for a .001 which I find patently absurd.
So much for "we're trading free".

All outputs must be at least 0.01 or you'll need a 0.0005 fee for the transaction.

If you want to make transactions that pay less than 0.01, then you ought to use sendmany to make a single transaction with many small outputs at once and then pay only one fee.

Without the anti-DOS behavior imposed by relaying and mining nodes, a single system of mine could saturate the cpus of just about every client in the network, and in in a week add a gigabyte of data to the blockchain that every client must currently download, store, and process.   Go spin up a miner on testnet with the fee rules disabled. You'll see it spewing 1MB blocks as fast as it mines them.

The fees are less than a penny in value (unless you're running old software, stop doing that!), which is pretty cheap for an operation which will be saved forever by all full nodes of bitcoin— and are only imposed against transactions which objectively look similar to attack patterns  (very tiny outputs, quick turnarounds, and or/lots of data).

As far as the 0.38 transaction goes:  Either it's comprised of lots of 0.01 inputs, in which case, it's taking a kilobyte of data to represent, thus getting subjected to a fee.  Or it's a quick turn around of an input that just landed in the wallet.  If it's the latter then simply waiting a bit (a day or so most likely) will make it work fee-less.

The bitcoin software tries to use the oldest inputs available to make new transactions (in order to get the highest priority),  but if coins which just landed in your wallet are all you have then thats what it will use, and your activity will look too indistinguishable from an attack where someone is ping-ponging coins between wallets quickly for the system to allow it without a fee.


Nice straightforward explanation. Thanks!

Feel like investing in a Miner?:
http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=30044.msg377773#msg377773
A soup to nuts newbee system for a secure, portable USB wallet (free instructions):
NoobHowTo: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=27088.msg341387#msg341387
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