[BTC-TC] BTC Growth: Capital Growth via Hedge Fund-Style Investing

[Peter Lambert]

Valueing everything at bid price is a bad way to do things at the moment.

It's exactly the right thing to do at the moment, because that -- and only that -- provides an indication of the fund's liquid net value. When some assets are likely to be wiped out entirely (BTC-TRADING-PT, for example), nobody cares what the 7-day moving average or 30-day moving average might be.

I took the time to release a special interim report immediately so that participants could have quantitative facts in front of them, right now, telling them exactly where we stand. Will things change over the next few hours and days? Of course they will, and hopefully for the better -- but that doesn't make it "a bad way to do things" to have given the specific, quantitative information as quickly as humanly possible.

OK, I see your point, it is the only meaningful observable data to assign a number to the portfolio value. I guess my point is more that the situation is in a state of high flux, and that number will change rapidly as people learn about the order book being wiped and start to add more bids at higher and higher points, so selling now at 80% price would be unwise for people holding this fund.

[Deprived]

Valueing everything at bid price is a bad way to do things at the moment.

It's exactly the right thing to do at the moment, because that -- and only that -- provides an indication of the fund's liquid net value. When some assets are likely to be wiped out entirely (BTC-TRADING-PT, for example), nobody cares what the 7-day moving average or 30-day moving average might be.

I took the time to release a special interim report immediately so that participants could have quantitative facts in front of them, right now, telling them exactly where we stand. Will things change over the next few hours and days? Of course they will, and hopefully for the better -- but that doesn't make it "a bad way to do things" to have given the specific, quantitative information as quickly as humanly possible.

OK, I see your point, it is the only meaningful observable data to assign a number to the portfolio value. I guess my point is more that the situation is in a state of high flux, and that number will change rapidly as people learn about the order book being wiped and start to add more bids at higher and higher points, so selling now at 80% price would be unwise for people holding this fund.

It's far better to give a slightly pessimistic valuation now - then see it get a bit better - than to give an optimistic valuation now and then have to keep reducing it.

Valuations of funds should ALWAYS be based on what you're pretty certain you can realise - which, right now, isn't much for some securities on BTC-TC/LTC-Global.

[Esh]

Greg

I'd like to add to the chorus encouraging you to do all that you can to re-list on another exchange and continue if possible. If anything, the happenings at BTC-TC speak powerfully to the importance of hedging in this space and the need for a fund such as this one.

[Vexual]

I believe this will have significant knock-on effects across the Bitcoin asset market.

the vast majority of the fund's capital is immune to BTC-TC's closure.

Way to hedge

[DrGregMulhauser]

Two quick updates...

First, following some developments with other securities on both BTC-TC and Litecoin Global, I would like to make two points clear to participants in BTC-GROWTH:

• Whatever the eventual disposition of the fund -- continuing on another exchange or closing up shop -- I will make every effort to treat all participants in our fund equally. I will emphatically not be discriminating on the basis of position size.
• I have no intention of suspending trading in the fund. We're all grown-ups here, and participants do not need me forcibly restricting their liquidity.

Second, I have been in contact with another of the exchange operators, and that operator has indicated they will be in discussion with their legal team shortly regarding the potential listing of the fund. I will post an update on this if and when I have something meaningful to report.

[nexxai]

This is the first time I've invested in a fund such as this, so I apologize if this is a stupid question - as the current investments have been made via semi-anonymous "user IDs" on BTCT, how will you know how to tie an investment to the same person on a new exchange?

[Rannasha]

This is the first time I've invested in a fund such as this, so I apologize if this is a stupid question - as the current investments have been made via semi-anonymous "user IDs" on BTCT, how will you know how to tie an investment to the same person on a new exchange?

BTCT asset issuers have access to shareholder-lists containing:
- email address
- number of shares
- public BTC address (new feature, if you haven't set this yet, do so quickly)

With this information it is easy (though still requiring some work) to link people to their shares.

[DrGregMulhauser]

This is the first time I've invested in a fund such as this, so I apologize if this is a stupid question - as the current investments have been made via semi-anonymous "user IDs" on BTCT, how will you know how to tie an investment to the same person on a new exchange?

It's a good question. The exchange emails all issuers with a list of current participants in their assets. A new exchange would provide some means of importing that list, such that old numbers would match up with new ones.

Although I've just said in an earlier note that I have no intention to suspend trading in the fund, in the case of a transfer to a new exchange, we would announce a planned suspension of trading -- and not a surprise one coming out of the blue "for your own good" -- so that we could secure a current participant list. With that list in hand, we could then begin a move to a different exchange.

EDIT: Whoops, I should have paid more attention to that notice saying the thread had been updated while I was typing, as it looks like Rannasha has already done a good job of covering this.

[Rannasha]

This is the first time I've invested in a fund such as this, so I apologize if this is a stupid question - as the current investments have been made via semi-anonymous "user IDs" on BTCT, how will you know how to tie an investment to the same person on a new exchange?

It's a good question. The exchange emails all issuers with a list of current participants in their assets. A new exchange would provide some means of importing that list, such that old numbers would match up with new ones.

Although I've just said in an earlier note that I have no intention to suspend trading in the fund, in the case of a transfer to a new exchange, we would announce a planned suspension of trading -- and not a surprise one coming out of the blue "for your own good" -- so that we could secure a current participant list. With that list in hand, we could then begin a move to a different exchange.

EDIT: Whoops, I should have paid more attention to that notice saying the thread had been updated while I was typing, as it looks like Rannasha has already done a good job of covering this.

I know that BitFunder has some option to recover/import shares already. On the account page, there's an option to "claim shares", where in my case it says that no shares were found linked to my email address (which is true) and there's an option to fill in a different email address to claim shares from (presumably it will send some verification code to that email address to verify ownership). I don't know if Havelock has a similar feature.

[DrGregMulhauser]

I know that BitFunder has some option to recover/import shares already. On the account page, there's an option to "claim shares", where in my case it says that no shares were found linked to my email address (which is true) and there's an option to fill in a different email address to claim shares from (presumably it will send some verification code to that email address to verify ownership). I don't know if Havelock has a similar feature.

IIRC, that was set up specifically for GLBSE.

[Rannasha]

I know that BitFunder has some option to recover/import shares already. On the account page, there's an option to "claim shares", where in my case it says that no shares were found linked to my email address (which is true) and there's an option to fill in a different email address to claim shares from (presumably it will send some verification code to that email address to verify ownership). I don't know if Havelock has a similar feature.

IIRC, that was set up specifically for GLBSE.

I can imagine it will be extended to also include BTCT imports now.

[Peter Lambert]

I know that BitFunder has some option to recover/import shares already. On the account page, there's an option to "claim shares", where in my case it says that no shares were found linked to my email address (which is true) and there's an option to fill in a different email address to claim shares from (presumably it will send some verification code to that email address to verify ownership). I don't know if Havelock has a similar feature.

IIRC, that was set up specifically for GLBSE.

I can imagine it will be extended to also include BTCT imports now.

There was one asset, Bakewell, which transfered from BTCT to BitFunder several months ago, the process was pretty quick and easy. The issuer of that asset later tried to run away with the shareholders money, but that is a different issue entirely.

[bobboooiie]

We're all grown-ups here

Well this is a first false statement you have ever wrote here (you probably dont follow actm or labcoin thread)

[Vycid]

Greg,

You have both my respect and my endorsement for the way you have handled the BTCT shutdown. These events are precisely why I never chose to attempt to start my own fund, but your navigation of what could easily have been a complete disaster demonstrates the burgeoning potential for a responsible actor to diversify risk in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

Best wishes for future success.

Vycid

[DrGregMulhauser]

You have both my respect and my endorsement for the way you have handled the BTCT shutdown. These events are precisely why I never chose to attempt to start my own fund, but your navigation of what could easily have been a complete disaster demonstrates the burgeoning potential for a responsible actor to diversify risk in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

Best wishes for future success.

Many thanks for your kind words and encouragement, Vycid -- I appreciate it.

[nexxai]

Greg,

You have both my respect and my endorsement for the way you have handled the BTCT shutdown. These events are precisely why I never chose to attempt to start my own fund, but your navigation of what could easily have been a complete disaster demonstrates the burgeoning potential for a responsible actor to diversify risk in the Bitcoin ecosystem.

Best wishes for future success.

Vycid

Yeah, basically this.  I don't understand how you are able to deal with the constant stream of BS, but you have done so masterfully thus far.  It's situations like this that make me that much more confident in leaving my investments in your hands.

[thy]

"Move the entire fund management infrastructure to another exchange" Is definately the best option for the investors i think.

[bobboooiie]

BTW are you actively trading right now? Because it seems like there is a lot of chances to make some profits.

[MPOE-PR]

Participants should be asbolutely clear about this: depending on the underlying reasons for the closure of BTC-TC, it is entirely possible that no other exchange will be able to take over BTC-TC assets; nobody yet knows the answer to this question. If no other exchange offers a credible plan, it is not possible to continue with the fund anyway.

Your ignorant approach to the matter is pretty much the reason you find yourself in this sad situation.

Pretending like "there are no solutions" because you don't actually have what it takes to use the solutions is a very flimsy excuse for your own inability.

[Code_red]

Participants should be asbolutely clear about this: depending on the underlying reasons for the closure of BTC-TC, it is entirely possible that no other exchange will be able to take over BTC-TC assets; nobody yet knows the answer to this question. If no other exchange offers a credible plan, it is not possible to continue with the fund anyway.

Your ignorant approach to the matter is pretty much the reason you find yourself in this sad situation.

Pretending like "there are no solutions" because you don't actually have what it takes to use the solutions is a very flimsy excuse for your own inability.

You’re truly one to talk about lack of ability.