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Author Topic: I'm sick of losing to the Blockchain  (Read 200 times)
gregeryb
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December 31, 2017, 02:19:34 PM
 #1

The blockchain is a disaster, there are more ways to lose your money than Las Vegas and that's not even counting trading losses.

Dumb Contracts

You can have a wallet which is run on a smart contract and not know it, then you transfer from an exchange that doesn't work with smart contracts but doesn't tell you then your money is gone. And support will call you an idiot after they get back to you in 2 weeks. Putting the word "smart" in front of something so dumb can only happen in the crypto world.


Notice that every ICO warns against purchasing from an exchange. The principle of mislaid property has been around for thousands of years since ancient Greece, property accidentally misplaced must be returned when the owner claims it. If you purchase tokens using an exchange account the exchange will simply keep your tokens claiming they own the address. This is blatantly illegal but I hear people in the crypto world justify it all the time.

Look at Coinbase flagrantly breaking the law and calling it policy:
https://support.coinbase.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2829461-altcoins-and-icos

I'm synced to the blockchain, man, fuck the world.

Crosschained to oblivion

We all know about BitCoin and BitCoin cash, if you mistake BitCoin Cash as a synonym for BitCoin then welcome to crosschain hell where your hard earned coin will burn for eternity. And did you know there's also ReddCoin and RedCoin, FUEL and FUEL? But similar names aren't the only problem because lazy developers only change the first letter of addresses instead of changing the checksum to avoid cross chaining. LiteCoin and LunaCoin is another fatal combination. My Android wallet asks for clarification from among dozens of coins when I enter an address because even the software has know idea how to resolve these ambiguous addresses.

These exchanges put 100s of defective and financial loss causing products on the market and then guess what? They blame you if something goes wrong. Even though those responsible for the defect must compensate for the defect we get tripe like this:

https://support.bittrex.com/hc/en-us/articles/115000961172-Bittrex-s-Crosschain-Recovery-Policy

Where they claim "Recovering coins crosschain is an inherently dangerous and time consuming process" without a hint of irony: For the customer using your exchange is an inherently dangerous and time consuming process. Crosschain losses should never occur and the fact they do occur is a defect in the platform that customers are entitled to be compensated for.

Your CrypoKitties are crap because if you buy your kids one they will lose it to an Ethereum bug after it's stuck in pending status for 4 months.

Your ICO coin is worthless, even if the creator was well meaning, because when put into production status customers will be losing to the block chain and raising support tickets until the company goes into hiding.

Just look at Cryptopia, they have a support queue of 14,000 complaints and take two weeks to even respond. That's 7,000 people per week who are going to be told they are idiots by support staff and that it's all their fault. Crypto currencies are built to be dangerous and unforgiving, justified by Libertarians who see any problem as individual sovereign risk. If you got it wrong you deserve the consequences. But what do you think will happen when this is unleashed on the masses?

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December 31, 2017, 08:39:56 PM
 #2

Well that put me off trusting alt-coins based on top of ETH for sure so thanks for sharing and
I am starting to come across more and more complaints of coins vanishing into thin air and
yes I know Coinbase are scammers and they would not pay me my $10 joining fee

if you have a $50 note and it gets destroyed then the government is $50 better off and it's the
same in Crypto-land too and yes the developers are useless as i am learning the more that I
look and BTC team now seems to be in bed with the banksters and won't do naff all about the
$45 extortion fee that we use to call "Transaction fee"

it said "Near free transaction fees" in the original white paper
so what are they doing to fix it and who believes a word they say anyway because it was obvious to anyone
spending the time to look that BTC would not scale and they can save the sales spin about LN fixing anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g

Help me hold the fort here because some people have been taken in by the concepts behind the
design of the Block-Chain sox-ware and will see or hear no evil when the obvious is pointed out
to them

Mining is CPU-wars and Intel, AMD like it nearly as much as big oil likes miners wasting electricity. Is this what mankind has come too.
Spendulus
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January 01, 2018, 05:43:01 AM
 #3

The blockchain is a disaster, there are more ways to lose your money than Las Vegas and that's not even counting trading losses.......
Just look at Cryptopia, they have a support queue of 14,000 complaints and take two weeks to even respond. That's 7,000 people per week who are going to be told they are idiots by support staff and that it's all their fault. Crypto currencies are built to be dangerous and unforgiving, justified by Libertarians who see any problem as individual sovereign risk. If you got it wrong you deserve the consequences. But what do you think will happen when this is unleashed on the masses?


Satoshi wrote a paper describing a peer to peer currency with no need for trusted intermediaries.

Sounds like you have problems with trusted intermediaries.
Kakmakr
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January 01, 2018, 08:11:49 AM
 #4

The blockchain is a disaster, there are more ways to lose your money than Las Vegas and that's not even counting trading losses.......
Just look at Cryptopia, they have a support queue of 14,000 complaints and take two weeks to even respond. That's 7,000 people per week who are going to be told they are idiots by support staff and that it's all their fault. Crypto currencies are built to be dangerous and unforgiving, justified by Libertarians who see any problem as individual sovereign risk. If you got it wrong you deserve the consequences. But what do you think will happen when this is unleashed on the masses?


Satoshi wrote a paper describing a peer to peer currency with no need for trusted intermediaries.

Sounds like you have problems with trusted intermediaries.

This must be one of my most favorite answers to a question like this on this forum. People blame Satoshi's technology for the flaws and mistakes that are done by third party services. The same thing happened with MtGox and Silkroad and all the other exchanges that got hacked over the years.

They are simply using bitcoins as a currency on their service. DO NOT blame the technology, blame the service or intermediaries with their weak code and bad policies.

cr1776
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January 01, 2018, 02:37:41 PM
 #5

The blockchain is a disaster, there are more ways to lose your money than Las Vegas and that's not even counting trading losses.......
Just look at Cryptopia, they have a support queue of 14,000 complaints and take two weeks to even respond. That's 7,000 people per week who are going to be told they are idiots by support staff and that it's all their fault. Crypto currencies are built to be dangerous and unforgiving, justified by Libertarians who see any problem as individual sovereign risk. If you got it wrong you deserve the consequences. But what do you think will happen when this is unleashed on the masses?


Satoshi wrote a paper describing a peer to peer currency with no need for trusted intermediaries.

Sounds like you have problems with trusted intermediaries.

Exactly.  People deal with un-trusted intermediaries and don't like the results.  So, don't deal with them.

Plus it sounds like OP has a problem with "lazy developers only change the first letter of addresses".  Why trust lazy developers?   

Adults have to be responsible for themselves:  if they don't know the difference between "bitcoin" and "bitcoin cash" don't blame bitcoin, blame either the person who didn't bother to find out what they were buying or blame the developers who chose names that were confusingly similar (although how anyone would be confused about two different names if they can read is difficult to understand).

I don't have such a negative view of "the masses" as OP, I tend to think that people are smart enough to see the difference between well tested software from non-lazy developers and untested, poorly written software from lazy developers.  Not to mention see the difference between a third party service and bitcoin.

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January 01, 2018, 03:23:37 PM
 #6

The blockchain is a disaster, there are more ways to lose your money than Las Vegas and that's not even counting trading losses.......
Just look at Cryptopia, they have a support queue of 14,000 complaints and take two weeks to even respond. That's 7,000 people per week who are going to be told they are idiots by support staff and that it's all their fault. Crypto currencies are built to be dangerous and unforgiving, justified by Libertarians who see any problem as individual sovereign risk. If you got it wrong you deserve the consequences. But what do you think will happen when this is unleashed on the masses?


Satoshi wrote a paper describing a peer to peer currency with no need for trusted intermediaries.

Sounds like you have problems with trusted intermediaries.

Exactly.  People deal with un-trusted intermediaries and don't like the results.  So, don't deal with them.

Plus it sounds like OP has a problem with "lazy developers only change the first letter of addresses".  Why trust lazy developers?   

Adults have to be responsible for themselves:  if they don't know the difference between "bitcoin" and "bitcoin cash" don't blame bitcoin, blame either the person who didn't bother to find out what they were buying or blame the developers who chose names that were confusingly similar (although how anyone would be confused about two different names if they can read is difficult to understand).

I don't have such a negative view of "the masses" as OP, I tend to think that people are smart enough to see the difference between well tested software from non-lazy developers and untested, poorly written software from lazy developers.  Not to mention see the difference between a third party service and bitcoin.


The curious thing is that Satoshi AGREES WITH THE OP POSTER(insofar as the risks of third parties)!!!!!

Abstract. A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution. Digital signatures provide part of the solution, but the main benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required to prevent double-spending. We propose a solution to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer network. The network timestamps transactions by hashing them into an ongoing chain of hash-based proof-of-work, forming a record that cannot be changed without redoing the proof-of-work. The longest chain not only serves as proof of the sequence of events witnessed, but proof that it came from the largest pool of CPU power. As long as a majority of CPU power is controlled by nodes that are not cooperating to attack the network, they'll generate the longest chain and outpace attackers. The network itself requires minimal structure. Messages are broadcast on a best effort basis, and nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the longest proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone.

https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf


But Satoshi would note and it must be agreed that the poster's anger is incorrectly directed at the blockchain and should be directed at the third parties.

The blockchain is the solution not the problem. The problems noted appear to all be "off blockchain."

bulldogtattoo
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January 01, 2018, 03:47:33 PM
 #7

The blockchain is a disaster, there are more ways to lose your money than Las Vegas and that's not even counting trading losses.......
Just look at Cryptopia, they have a support queue of 14,000 complaints and take two weeks to even respond. That's 7,000 people per week who are going to be told they are idiots by support staff and that it's all their fault. Crypto currencies are built to be dangerous and unforgiving, justified by Libertarians who see any problem as individual sovereign risk. If you got it wrong you deserve the consequences. But what do you think will happen when this is unleashed on the masses?


Satoshi wrote a paper describing a peer to peer currency with no need for trusted intermediaries.

Sounds like you have problems with trusted intermediaries.

This must be one of my most favorite answers to a question like this on this forum. People blame Satoshi's technology for the flaws and mistakes that are done by third party services. The same thing happened with MtGox and Silkroad and all the other exchanges that got hacked over the years.

They are simply using bitcoins as a currency on their service. DO NOT blame the technology, blame the service or intermediaries with their weak code and bad policies.

Innovators develop technologies, imitators make use of them, idiots misuse them...
dado7
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January 03, 2018, 03:28:51 PM
 #8

Well, I wouldn't blaim it on the blockchain technology as it is. I would blame it as always - on people and our mistakes.

Blockchain is a genius technology, a finally revelead "next big thing" that was sought after a long time. And in the right time (or being provoked by it) - at the end of the big world cash-flow crisis that have indeed ended, but with the financial world still being fundamentally in the much bigger crisis - when we needed a new system of transactions; one that will provide more reliable and secure, and honest system then the current system of creating and allocation of money which is almost solely in the hands of private bankers.

However, as with any great idea there are problems.
1. Reliability and security. As you mentioned - there is hardly anything secure and user-friendly out there. However, hardly anything was with any new technology in the human history. And yes, this technology is new, and prone to more mistakes because it is an open community. An open community is self-correctable which is a good thing, but also anyone can work on it which is both good and bad thing.
2. Honesty. Justice? Hardly any of the systems out there are not centralised. Even those that claim they are not centralised are centralised because they have whales - and big ones too.

Point 1. is solvable - by learning, hard work and time.
Point 2. Is it solvable? I don't know. It is the human nature, it doesn't change easily.

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January 03, 2018, 04:05:20 PM
 #9

what you're saying is true, but no reason to blame on blockchain. It's middleman causing your troubles. the way we're using blockchain today, many times we still rely on third party what makes the whole network centralized to some extend, that's where the troubles arise
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January 03, 2018, 04:05:30 PM
 #10

Its a new technology, and need some time to mature. Yes, there will be glitches in the start but its pretty much usable as it is now and it will only keep getting better.
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January 04, 2018, 02:12:47 AM
 #11

never had a single issue with anything related to crypto...but I tend to double/triple check everything I do sooooo this all sounds more like a end-user issue to me

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January 04, 2018, 12:28:51 PM
 #12

The blockchain is a disaster, there are more ways to lose your money than Las Vegas and that's not even counting trading losses.......
Just look at Cryptopia, they have a support queue of 14,000 complaints and take two weeks to even respond. That's 7,000 people per week who are going to be told they are idiots by support staff and that it's all their fault. Crypto currencies are built to be dangerous and unforgiving, justified by Libertarians who see any problem as individual sovereign risk. If you got it wrong you deserve the consequences. But what do you think will happen when this is unleashed on the masses?


Satoshi wrote a paper describing a peer to peer currency with no need for trusted intermediaries.

Sounds like you have problems with trusted intermediaries.


Well it does appear the OP put trust, where TRUST doesn't belong.

Here I will help OP.

Never use any exchanges or wallets, only use the core sw as provided for all activity, if you mine, write your own miner.

Some +90% of all BTC loss is wallet, exchange, mining-pool, ... etc, ... all 3rd party criminal activity, the OP is right, BTC because of its libertarian 'non-recourse' opinions is a haven for criminals, and thus u have mt-gox, and nicehash, and 100's of ppl where here they'll tell u it was incompetence, but IMHO as a life-long professional sw developer I see 100% criminal activity.

TRUST in an environment of criminals is like taking your virgin daughter to an orgy and expecting her to remain a virgin, its the wild-west and you should know that before entering, there are many signs; Trust in any website, or wallet-sw, or anything outside of the core-dev team is just asking for having your coins stolen.

As an active miner, I can tell u that 99% of all the mining pools are ran by criminals, the trick in this wild-west zoo is to give a little bait to all and figure out WHO to trust, sounds like U already learned a few ppl who not to trust, so your on your way, but don't go back, once someone rips you off don't be a fool and return, and don't waste your time on the phone or email, with a Bangalore call center who have no power to return your stolen money.

Just give out small amounts and test ppl in this zoo.
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