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Author Topic: Has anyone sold BTC won here in sig campaigns? how does tax work?  (Read 435 times)
pereira4
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December 31, 2017, 06:01:01 PM
 #1

In the future I would like to buy some property with my BTC once it's worth a lot. Even small amounts made on signature campaigns in here could be worth a lot and may I want to diversify into real state in say 5 years or so.

I was wondering how would this be done? Im scared because we get daily news of any bank account that has to do with Bitcoin being frozen. I wouldn't like to be treated a criminal when I obtained my Bitcoin posting here... any help?
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December 31, 2017, 07:29:54 PM
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I have been selling my bitcoins earned from signature campaigns for more than a year now and never faced any problems with it. I sell them to local merchants in Localbitcoins.com and get the funds in my desired bank account and then i cash them out on ATM. There are no regulations regarding Bitcoin in my country and maybe that is the reason why i was never bothered by the bank or any authorities, but someone might have to answer a few questions if there are regulations implemented on Bitcoin in their country.
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December 31, 2017, 07:51:51 PM
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There's no need to worry about if the bank stands nothing about bitcoin or to be sure on what you are about to do, go directly to the bank and ask them.

AFAIK, there's still no implementation about bitcoin not unless you are operating a business that's registered on your local gov't.

And to break your fear, for sure there will be people who are willing to sell their properties 5 years from now for bitcoin.

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pereira4
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December 31, 2017, 08:13:31 PM
 #4

I have been selling my bitcoins earned from signature campaigns for more than a year now and never faced any problems with it. I sell them to local merchants in Localbitcoins.com and get the funds in my desired bank account and then i cash them out on ATM. There are no regulations regarding Bitcoin in my country and maybe that is the reason why i was never bothered by the bank or any authorities, but someone might have to answer a few questions if there are regulations implemented on Bitcoin in their country.

This may be ok if you are just dealing with small amount of sales, but let's say in 10 years 1 BTC is worth $1,000,000

How do you cash out $1,000,000 or any other amount near that? you can't do it through localbitcoins, you would need a million different merchants to cash out that much money.

Also there's no way to buy a house without going through the taxman. You may be ok cashing out a small amount to buy a new phone, but im talking about buying real state with bitcoin gains. In this case, you are going to need to explain the origin of your coins, and im not sure how I would explain I made some BTC posting in some internet forum, this may not be convincing to them even if it's the truth. They are too paranoid of anything bitcoin related.
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January 01, 2018, 03:29:49 AM
 #5

I have been selling my bitcoins earned from signature campaigns for more than a year now and never faced any problems with it. I sell them to local merchants in Localbitcoins.com and get the funds in my desired bank account and then i cash them out on ATM. There are no regulations regarding Bitcoin in my country and maybe that is the reason why i was never bothered by the bank or any authorities, but someone might have to answer a few questions if there are regulations implemented on Bitcoin in their country.
In my country too, the bank never questioned where our money came from. Maybe if someday, bitcoin really put in the list of taxpayers by the government, then we automatically have been taxed for it, for every transaction

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January 01, 2018, 07:50:39 AM
 #6

It depends on the country, obviously. In my one there is no clear legislation, but the most likely scenario is that you have to declare them as if you were being paid for being a freelancer writing for a newspaper or a magazine, so your earnings here counts for your income tax.
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January 01, 2018, 11:46:24 AM
 #7

Since it is often, it is considered as an extra income (if you have already a job), or as a freelancer income. So in both cases, you're supposed to pay the tax income.
However, as some countries haven't make it clear with cryptos, it could be considered as something else than job income (call it whatever it suits you) see the difference. Are you from Portugal? I heard you guys are not taxed on cryptos gains?

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January 01, 2018, 01:02:10 PM
 #8

In this case, you are going to need to explain the origin of your coins, and im not sure how I would explain I made some BTC posting in some internet forum, this may not be convincing to them even if it's the truth.

But it is the truth.

You should hopefully still be able to prove that you own the account that posted. You'll be able to point to the thread where you signed up. The thread will be there that describes the sig campaign and the pay rates. If you're sensible you'll retain the private key of the address that received the payments and lists each tx.

Screenshot everything now just in case.

People deposit millions in banks from selling art made out of their own sperm and turds. This is less weird by a long way and fully traceable.

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January 01, 2018, 02:03:27 PM
 #9

In the future I would like to buy some property with my BTC once it's worth a lot. Even small amounts made on signature campaigns in here could be worth a lot and may I want to diversify into real state in say 5 years or so.

I was wondering how would this be done? Im scared because we get daily news of any bank account that has to do with Bitcoin being frozen. I wouldn't like to be treated a criminal when I obtained my Bitcoin posting here... any help?
That would really a big hindrance regarding on accumulating large amounts of money but i think it should be fine as long you are just gradually cashouting it not tend to make it on bulks because it would really turn out to be suspicious if you do such act.For now this is what im doing now which i indirectly cashouting my converted btc to local fiat into other payment options and saving it.

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January 01, 2018, 03:00:11 PM
 #10

This is an issue worrying me too, how to declare this ? How to justify this income ? Since they will ask the details of your accounts, how to explain you made 120 000 dollars with a signature ? They'll just believe it's a bad way to hide fraud money








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January 01, 2018, 06:26:19 PM
 #11

In the future I would like to buy some property with my BTC once it's worth a lot. Even small amounts made on signature campaigns in here could be worth a lot and may I want to diversify into real state in say 5 years or so.

I was wondering how would this be done? Im scared because we get daily news of any bank account that has to do with Bitcoin being frozen. I wouldn't like to be treated a criminal when I obtained my Bitcoin posting here... any help?

I have been selling my signature campaign earnings every month. I also fall under 20% tax bracket as per my country's rule because I have a day job from where I earn a decent salary. So let me clarify this for you. Whatever bitcoins you will earn from signature campaign, can't be considered for capital gain because you earned it and not invested out of your pocket. So treat this amount as your income only. Don't factor in the price fluctuation here.

I calculate the entire amount that I cash out in my local currency and then add the amount in my tax information filing. I add this amount under "income from other sources" head. You can follow the same as I have been doing this since last two years. You may pay some tax out of your pocket but it's totally worth it as you are not hoarding any black money. Whatever you have earned, you have declared it and paid tax on it. I hope this helps!

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January 01, 2018, 06:28:18 PM
 #12

Hello to everybody. ı am new to the forums. CAn ı have some idea how to earn bitcois by posts.

Thanks in advance.
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January 01, 2018, 06:38:57 PM
 #13

Hello to everybody. ı am new to the forums. CAn ı have some idea how to earn bitcois by posts.

Thanks in advance.

This is the main thread about them - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=615953.0

This is the forum where they appear - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=52.0

To get the most money you'll need a higher ranked account. Newcomers may not quality for any campaign, or just very small payments.

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January 01, 2018, 06:58:56 PM
 #14

In this case, you are going to need to explain the origin of your coins, and im not sure how I would explain I made some BTC posting in some internet forum, this may not be convincing to them even if it's the truth.

But it is the truth.

You should hopefully still be able to prove that you own the account that posted. You'll be able to point to the thread where you signed up. The thread will be there that describes the sig campaign and the pay rates. If you're sensible you'll retain the private key of the address that received the payments and lists each tx.

I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.

I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.

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January 01, 2018, 07:11:52 PM
 #15

I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.

I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.

They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They  won't even ask to see them.



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January 01, 2018, 07:25:08 PM
 #16

i was only today talking to a friend about this.
Going forward how do we liquidate crypto to fiat ?(unfortunately it doesnt look like we can use crypto widely)
i am in europe and i know if there is any deposit made greater than 5000€ questions will be asked and potentially subject to tax.
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January 02, 2018, 08:28:04 AM
 #17

I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.

I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.

They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They  won't even ask to see them.


This also even a risk to some 3rd world countries. Unlike those countries where bitcoin can be freely used. I guess this is the downside of taxless transactions. Some government banned bitcoin they though it will just bring their country into a bad demise. Also government cant really profit if that is the case. Some may say that bitcoin is some kind of tax evation but i think the only problem is dictating where you get your profit.

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January 02, 2018, 10:08:39 PM
 #18

I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.

I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.

They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They  won't even ask to see them.


This also even a risk to some 3rd world countries. Unlike those countries where bitcoin can be freely used. I guess this is the downside of taxless transactions. Some government banned bitcoin they though it will just bring their country into a bad demise. Also government cant really profit if that is the case. Some may say that bitcoin is some kind of tax evation but i think the only problem is dictating where you get your profit.
Mostly ive seen 3rd world countries isn't too strict with the compliance when it comes to bitcoin or on any taxation matters since they do only focused into legalized things and consider than bitcoin isn't still been legalized or adopted on most cases which means they aren't too strict or they cant really do nothing if a certain citizen would decide up to evade tax with bitcoin which is really possible indeed.


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January 03, 2018, 02:59:00 PM
 #19

I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.

I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.

They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They  won't even ask to see them.


This also even a risk to some 3rd world countries. Unlike those countries where bitcoin can be freely used. I guess this is the downside of taxless transactions. Some government banned bitcoin they though it will just bring their country into a bad demise. Also government cant really profit if that is the case. Some may say that bitcoin is some kind of tax evation but i think the only problem is dictating where you get your profit.
When citizens already come to a point that they are not paying taxes and decide to hide up assets on bitcoin form then it will surely put up the entire country into problem since we do know that tax do really play major role on the economy of a country and if people do not tend to pay up their obligations then it would really give negative effects.


i was only today talking to a friend about this.
Going forward how do we liquidate crypto to fiat ?(unfortunately it doesnt look like we can use crypto widely)
i am in europe and i know if there is any deposit made greater than 5000€ questions will be asked and potentially subject to tax.
Each country do have different limitations when it comes to max transactions which is normal because they do really need to impose laws that would really fight money laundering and tax evasions and other related cases.




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January 04, 2018, 03:00:30 PM
 #20

In this case, you are going to need to explain the origin of your coins, and im not sure how I would explain I made some BTC posting in some internet forum, this may not be convincing to them even if it's the truth.

But it is the truth.

You should hopefully still be able to prove that you own the account that posted. You'll be able to point to the thread where you signed up. The thread will be there that describes the sig campaign and the pay rates. If you're sensible you'll retain the private key of the address that received the payments and lists each tx.

Screenshot everything now just in case.

People deposit millions in banks from selling art made out of their own sperm and turds. This is less weird by a long way and fully traceable.

Not less weird at all, it's very weird to them, and precisely because it's traceable, you must prove it, if you can't prove it, then how are you supposed to sell?

Again, suppose that I sent coins into Mintpal, traded 1 BTC for LTC, and sold this LTC when it went up for a profit of 4 BTC, I end up with 5 BTC, then I deposit this 5 BTC back into my wallet.

Mintpal dies out of nowhere and now you don't have your account anymore. How do you prove the origin? and if you can't prove the origin, you are fucked. This is why im scared to sell BTC. Yes you may be able to solve it with signature campaigns (and im still worried that I should have been paying taxes because it would be considered a wage in exchange of a work and not an investment). They may decide to tax you with an extra for all the months that you didn't pay taxes on what is considered a wage when they realize you had a lot of payments (because once they have your bitcointalk account, they can trace all of your payments ever here, not just what you are reporting).

I can't imagine tax authorities asking you for your Bitcointalk login or private keys. They certainly shouldn't, and technically that wouldn't prove ownership of the funds at the time they were paid. I'd archive the sig campaign threads in case the site gets nuked, but that's more about proving where funds are derived from and less about taxes.

I think the IRS really just cares that people are making a good faith effort to pay their taxes. It seems like signature campaigns would fall under regular "wages/salaries/tips" or "other income" and taxed at the standard tax rate for the cost basis, and capital gains for any gains from holding.

They won't really care. None of them care. You just tell them you have a screenshots and few bits and bobs that'll let them offload the problem on someone else if it ever arises, and it won't. They  won't even ask to see them.




Yes they will care and it's only going to get worse. Any money without a dubious origin is at risk of being confiscated so you better be able to prove you obtained it legally.
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