Considering buying 10 S9's or equivalent - Need help deciding to move forward

[Viperean]

Most of the calculators show that if I ran 10 S9's (or the equivalent) I'd be able to make a significant amount of money.
These calculators show I'd be in the green:

• https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=14&HashingUnit=TH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=1325&CostPerkWh=0.08
• http://www.mycryptobuddy.com/BitcoinMiningCalculator/path?hashrate=14&powerCost=0.08&power=1250&hardwareCost=2750&priceChange=15&sellingProfile=never
• https://www.nicehash.com/profitability-calculator/bitmain-antminer-s9?e=0.08&currency=USD
• https://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurrency/?sha256hr=14000&sha256p=1325&sha256pc=0.08&sha256c=true&scrypthr=110000.00&scryptp=1000.00&scryptpc=0.1000&scryptc=false&x11hr=450.00&x11p=120.00&x11pc=0.1000&x11c=false&quarkhr=450000.00&quarkp=75.00&quarkpc=0.1000&quarkc=false&groestlhr=45.00&groestlp=825.00&groestlpc=0.1000&groestlc=false&blake256hr=11.20&blake256p=600.00&blake256pc=0.1000&blake256c=false&neoscrypthr=400.00&neoscryptp=400.00&neoscryptpc=0.1000&neoscryptc=false&lyra2rev2hr=30.00&lyra2rev2p=600.00&lyra2rev2pc=0.1000&lyra2rev2c=false&cryptonighthr=2800.00&cryptonightp=600.00&cryptonightpc=0.1000&cryptonightc=false&ethashhr=108.00&ethashp=600.00&ethashpc=0.1000&ethashc=false&equihashhr=1180.00&equihashp=600.00&equihashpc=0.1000&equihashc=false&e=CEX.io

This one shows I'd be in the red:

• www.alcula.com/calculators/finance/bitcoin-mining/

All of the calculations have been using my current electric rate of $0.08/kWh and based off of an Antminer S9 (14TH and 1325W power consumption).

In case you care, here is my plan. After setting up this "farm" and running it for a few months I'd want to save enough money to replenish the machines as needed or to buy upgraded versions (like the rumored S11 or maybe the dragon) and keep this farm going long-term.

Another question - does anyone have access to a good and historically reliable difficulty estimator that I can try to estimate long term gains/losses (I know it would be hard based on the volatility of BTC and difficulty changes but I'd be silly if I didn't try).

Final Question- Does anyone have access to historical data representing daily or monthly returns to date using S9's or other hardware? I can't seem to find a chart online anywhere and it may be useful to determine the rate that which profits decline over time.

Final Final Question - I'm exploring the idea of starting a company/LLC for tax purposes and maybe a lower electricity rate.  Is this a good/bad idea for this small kind of setup?  Would the potential tax advantages be worth it?  I would be running this out of my home in the western United States.

I know this is long so thanks for bearing with me.

[1715066496]

1715066496

[1715066496]

1715066496

[stelee68]

Well, thats the idea that got me started 1 month ago, in the first place.

Setting up a farm of 10+ miners, ROI in X months, blah blah blah.

And up-to-date, I had accomplished only these few things : purchased pre-order M3 miners, a little bit of BTC in my online wallet, awaiting for my Nano S Ledger and pending account limit increase/verification from Xfers.

Very frustrating, I can tell you that. It has been a roller coaster ride since I left my last fulltime day-job and embark on this BTC adventure. Everything seems so feasible on theory, but its nuts in the real world.

Lastly, the cryptocompare calculator is incorrect on the diff count. Do not use that crap.

[Viperean]

Well, thats the idea that got me started 1 month ago, in the first place.

Setting up a farm of 10+ miners, ROI in X months, blah blah blah.

And up-to-date, I had accomplished only these few things : purchased pre-order M3 miners, a little bit of BTC in my online wallet, awaiting for my Nano S Ledger and pending account limit increase/verification from Xfers.

Very frustrating, I can tell you that. It has been a roller coaster ride since I left my last fulltime day-job and embark on this BTC adventure. Everything seems so feasible on theory, but its nuts in the real world.

Lastly, the cryptocompare calculator is incorrect on the diff count. Do not use that crap.

Good luck with yours man, I'm also waiting for my limits to be raised!

[A.Delaney]

Also consider the fact that the S9’s aren’t always the greatest quality and it is possible to end up with a miner that’s DOA or only works for a short time. I was just having this discussion in a thread I started.

[alh]

The old adage from the USA "Gold Rush" days were that the folks selling pans, pick axes and the like (i.e. mining hardware) did better than the folks actually mining for the Gold itself.

Just a thought......

[castiel0504]

You are right Alh, im joking with my friend every day, on that topic, and after almost 100% of increase in miner prices, like little miner im feeling dumb(should have just HODLed my btc).

OP - prepare your electricity in advance before your miners arrive, call electricity man, and prepare outlets for 220V in advance so you don't need to bother with it when it arrives, so you can basically do "plug 'n' play"..

[majlkcze]

Try to contact Bitfury about theit B8
It have 43 TH/s on 6.5 kW for USD 7.000 - its not bad
but their delivery is within 8 months

[lossol]

In the USA $0.08/kWh isn't the real cost of electricity. You have to look at your bill & factor in delivery charges & other misc. fees. Then you'll arrive at the real cost per kWh; unless you don't have those other charges? Plus there might be demand charges if you exceed a certain limit depending on your electric utility provider. And at 10 S9 miners, you'll need 5 x 20A 2 pole breakers dedicated to the miners only. And running these miners at home will take up 1/4 of your panel assuming you have a 200A, 42 slot panel. If you have an older home with a smaller panel, then you'll have less to work with. So there's actually a lot of logistics to consider than just how much profit the calculators say you can make & which don't factor in.

[A.Delaney]

In the USA $0.08/kWh isn't the real cost of electricity. You have to look at your bill & factor in delivery charges & other misc. fees. Then you'll arrive at the real cost per kWh; unless you don't have those other charges? Plus there might be demand charges if you exceed a certain limit depending on your electric utility provider. And at 10 S9 miners, you'll need 5 x 20A 2 pole breakers dedicated to the miners only. And running these miners at home will take up 1/4 of your panel assuming you have a 200A, 42 slot panel. If you have an older home with a smaller panel, then you'll have less to work with. So there's actually a lot of logistics to consider than just how much profit the calculators say you can make & which don't factor in.

I just added a 100amp sub panel next to my 200amp breaker box. I can fit 10 x 20 amp 220v breakers in it for up to 20 miners. Now if only I had the miners. Lol

[Sandal_Hat]

Well, thats the idea that got me started 1 month ago, in the first place.

Setting up a farm of 10+ miners, ROI in X months, blah blah blah.

And up-to-date, I had accomplished only these few things : purchased pre-order M3 miners, a little bit of BTC in my online wallet, awaiting for my Nano S Ledger and pending account limit increase/verification from Xfers.

Very frustrating, I can tell you that. It has been a roller coaster ride since I left my last fulltime day-job and embark on this BTC adventure. Everything seems so feasible on theory, but its nuts in the real world.

Lastly, the cryptocompare calculator is incorrect on the diff count. Do not use that crap.

Be careful and dont overpay for miners. Difficulty goes up and profitability comes down fast over time

[LastJedi]

Also consider the fact that the S9’s aren’t always the greatest quality and it is possible to end up with a miner that’s DOA or only works for a short time. I was just having this discussion in a thread I started.

You have to think by the time your "new" S9 arrives it already has over 2100 hours of constant use courtesy of bitmain.  Damn they are in the right business

That has to get you thinking why there are so many of these S9's on ebay only having one board working on them.

Bitmain have been running them to half their life span before sending them off to the one's who paid for them brand new.

Yes what a business they run.

[mineintx]

I am in a similar spot looking at all this..

Can someone who is running a S9 let me know at current difficulty rates, pool fees, how much BTC is one unit (13.5 T/HS) is ACTUALLY generating for you now,  per day or per month.

I have some units on the way, I will get them up and running next week, and I will let you know how much I actually generate.

[Raymond_B]

I am in a similar spot looking at all this..

Can someone who is running a S9 let me know at current difficulty rates, pool fees, how much BTC is one unit (13.5 T/HS) is ACTUALLY generating for you now,  per day or per month.

I have some units on the way, I will get them up and running next week, and I will let you know how much I actually generate.

You can look up difficulty and pool fees yourself. This is a screenshot from Awesomeminer for a couple of S9s, an S7,  and a couple GPU miners ('cause I forgot to crop them out ), so far its calculations have been pretty good.




Hmmmm, I guess my noob status won't let it display pics?

[Raymond_B]

In the USA $0.08/kWh isn't the real cost of electricity. You have to look at your bill & factor in delivery charges & other misc. fees. Then you'll arrive at the real cost per kWh; unless you don't have those other charges? Plus there might be demand charges if you exceed a certain limit depending on your electric utility provider. And at 10 S9 miners, you'll need 5 x 20A 2 pole breakers dedicated to the miners only. And running these miners at home will take up 1/4 of your panel assuming you have a 200A, 42 slot panel. If you have an older home with a smaller panel, then you'll have less to work with. So there's actually a lot of logistics to consider than just how much profit the calculators say you can make & which don't factor in.

I just added a 100amp sub panel next to my 200amp breaker box. I can fit 10 x 20 amp 220v breakers in it for up to 20 miners. Now if only I had the miners. Lol

Or use 30A breakers and save slots.

But you have a larger problem, you're limited to 80% of that 100A sub-panel. So 80A which = roughly 11ish miners if you figure roughly 7A per miner maybe a tad more if you calculate off 6.4A, but why risk it?

[casparthefriendly]

I am in a similar spot looking at all this..

Can someone who is running a S9 let me know at current difficulty rates, pool fees, how much BTC is one unit (13.5 T/HS) is ACTUALLY generating for you now,  per day or per month.

I have some units on the way, I will get them up and running next week, and I will let you know how much I actually generate.

I can tell you 4.7 TH/s is earning about $12 - 14 per day.  If you can get 13 TH/s out of S9 figure about $33 - 40 per day.

[lossol]

How much BTC you make will depend on how lucky your pool is and how much hash power you have compared to the pool and the current difficulty. What that translates to in USD or whatever currency you use will depend on how high or low bitcoin goes. Someone on eBay was selling a used A741 last month for over $2500 & saying you can make $800+/month, but that was when bitcoin was over $19K.

[lossol]

@ A. Delaney
You can buy (20) Ebit E10 at $4400 a piece. MOQ is 20 so that fits your setup perfectly as they run at 1600w each so 2 on one 20A circuit with a little room to spare.

[lossol]

A 30A breaker is only going to get him 1 additional S9 on the circuit, but then he has to up the wire size to 10awg which is 2x the cost of 12awg. Unless he wires it himself, I doubt any licensed electrician is going to wire standard 15/20A duplex outlets to a 30A breaker as it's not to code. Most standard outlets come as duplex so if you have 2 duplex outlets on a 30A breaker, it's easy to plug in (4) S9s and trip the breaker. Worst case would be to forget & plug in an outlet strip into the duplex outlet & burn the place to the ground. I wouldn't do this as it's easy to forget over time that the duplex outlets are actually 220v on a 30A circuit unless you label it in big bold letters. A safer way would be to use a 30A outlet for the 30A breaker, but then you need a PDU as you can't plug (3) S9s directly into the 30A outlet. I guess that's why it's just easier to use 20A breakers with 20A outlets. Then you can use standard power cords & plug in each miner.

[A.Delaney]

@ A. Delaney
You can buy (20) Ebit E10 at $4400 a piece. MOQ is 20 so that fits your setup perfectly as they run at 1600w each so 2 on one 20A circuit with a little room to spare.

Wow 18Th/s is impressive. That’s $88,000 to buy the MOQ of 20. I’d have to refi my house to get those. Lol