Spaniard working in The Netherlands and investing in Spain

[zyryab]

Hi! I'm a Spanish guy who moved to The Netherlands in 2016 to live and work, and I get paid my salary in my Dutch bank account. By the end of 2017 (actually the last day of December... so stupid) I bought my first small amounts of ETH using my Spanish bank account through Coinbase/Gdax, and then I've been exchanging my cryptocurrencies in Binance. During this year (2018), I'll have to make my annual tax here in The Netherlands for sure.

My questions are:
1. Do I have to pay taxes related to my investments in the Dutch annual tax if I earn or lose money due to my activity? (I guess yes). I will have to just justify the overall gain or loss?
2. Do I have to declare the same in the Spanish annual tax as well (or only here) because I'm using a Spanish bank account? Otherwise, I was not planning to make any annual tax in Spain...
3. What if now I add my Dutch account as a new new bank account to my Binance exchanger and keep working with my Dutch bank account and nothing else to do with the Spanish one (I could maybe delete it)?
4. What if I don't exchange any of my cryptocurrencies to EUR? Do I still have to pay for it?

I just want to avoid as many trauma as possible with all the annual taxes. I have to say that I've investing very low amounts for now, but if I'm screwed anyway, I plan to keep going on.

Thanks a lot!

[Don Pedro Dinero]

1 and 2: You only have to pay tax where you have your tax residence (residencia fiscal), so only in the Netherlands.

3: Nothing changes.

4. I don't think so, and to my knowledge the same happens in at least the vast majority of countries.

[zyryab]

Thanks a lot for the info, Don Pedro Dinero! That makes me feel a bit more comfortable... However, for point 4, all my uncertainty comes from this post (and the videos shown there):
http://www.bolsamania.com/declaracion-impuestos-renta/como-tributan-los-bitcoins-en-la-renta/

They say if you trade (buy/sell) with different cryptocurrencies, you should declare it. But on the other side, a lot of people is telling me this is not true. Don't know what to think.

And a last question: if you move your cryptocurrencies back to a EUR wallet in Coinbase (e.g.), that is not considered as stored in your bank account, so in that case you consider that you still don't have to take that money into account for the annual tax? It's in EUR, but it's not in your bank account.

Thanks a lot!

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Ok, so your point 4 really means “What if I don't exchange any of my cryptocurrencies to EUR, but I exchange ones for others (like selling bitcoin to buy Ethereum)? Do I still have to pay for it?”

In that case, supposedly yes. You’ll have to do research on how that works in the Netherlands. I said supposedly because that’s what should be done in theory but in practice it is very difficult. You can have a look at this very long thread in forobits: https://forobits.com/t/que-hacemos-con-hacienda-fiscalidad-e-impuestos-sobre-bitcoin/2150 to get an idea. Some people declare those exchanges, and some others not. Anyway, that’s as far as tax is concerned, but it might be different in the Netherlands.

Have you tried asking on the Dutch section on this forum?

[zyryab]

Thanks a lot for your help Don Pedro Dinero! As I see, it's a tricky question... I've just asked in the Dutch section about it (thanks for the advise!), now that I know that investing using a Spanish account doesn't have anything to do with where you do your annual tax.

Thanks a lot again!

[CryptoBry]

Taxation can really be a difficult and confusing kind of thing. This is one of the things that I really hate and I am thankful that am in a country which has not yet implemented regulations for us to pay the required taxes but i guess this won't be for long because the Central Bank together with our SEC is already planning to come up with regulatory framework that might be passed on to the legislature for approval. For now, cryptocurrency lovers and enthusiasts are still enjoying a tax holiday.

[indirranatrader]

Hi, I have not yet removed any bitcoins but my situation is similar as I declare my taxes outside of Spain though I am spanish. My fiscal residence is outside Spain, that means I dont need to pay taxes in Spain.

As I see it you could do 3 things:
1. You could withdraw your funds to your dutch account and pay taxes according to dutch law for your gains.
2. You could wd your funds to your spanish account and still pay taxes for it in dutch.
3. You could wd your funds to your spanish account and not pay taxes in dutch, the spainish gov is not supposed to tax you on that either.

I think I am right on this?