[HAVELOCK] Crypto Financial (CFIG) Official Thread

[Ninshatamoto]

I really like Havelock, but with the lack of communication we've been getting from Crypto Financial, and the lack of answers to fairly basic questions...I have zero confidence in this IPO, and I won't feel sorry for anyone that loses money on this.

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[lightbox]

I really like Havelock, but with the lack of communication we've been getting from Crypto Financial, and the lack of answers to fairly basic questions...I have zero confidence in this IPO, and I won't feel sorry for anyone that loses money on this.

Crypto Financial will be spending more time answering questions here, and we are now working with them to possibly release their full business plan (which we have analysed in detail already and has much more detail than the released prospectus), or a trimmed down version of it (removing any proprietary information first).. stay tuned!

[ranlo]

Is there another place where these people are actually answering the questions raised of the company? Their IPO is in a few days and they haven't answered, with even a  modicum of detail, any of the serious concerns. I'm a bit surprised, honestly. If I was a company in their situation, I'd be doing everything in my power to make everything as clear as possible to potential investors. I'd be very wary of this security until there is a lot more transparancy (Name of the bank they are working with, ACTUAL business model with numbers, ACTUAL current cash on hand, etc...). Good luck, I hope you can come through!

If I was a company I would have taken the time to ensure there would be none of these questions to begin with. Companies usually have legal advisers and specialists for drafting up business documents. This "company" that feels it has contributed $12 million doesn't have any of that? Really? If they are mis-managing money that bad, I wouldn't give them another cent because it means they clearly have no idea what they are doing and are either: a) a scam or b) going to tank due to thinking "EASY MONEY!"

[Pale Phoenix]

Crypto Financial will be spending more time answering questions here, and we are now working with them to possibly release their full business plan (which we have analysed in detail already and has much more detail than the released prospectus), or a trimmed down version of it (removing any proprietary information first).. stay tuned!

Well that is good to hear. I wondered if Havelock had done any internal due diligence on this proposal as it has the potential to expose the exchange itself to a significant amount of scrutiny and risk.

[jedunnigan]

Not to mention you basically told us nothing new. If you are unwilling to release details please say so, no need to play cat and mouse.

[Crypto Financial]

Can you describe in more detail what is meant by "We have put in place the assets required for the company to become fully operational at more than $10 million in assets required for an International Bank."

Is this capital that the founders have contributed and if so, what is the source of these funds?

As Crypto Financial will only operate as a Financial Service provider and not as a lender the assets required at the time of the application is covered by our existing Bank as sponsor.
We have decided to offer the Crypto Currency community an opportunity to become shareholders of our Company as we offer up to a 20% stake.
Any net profit that we will derive from profit sharing fees with any of our exchange partners will be paid back as dividends.

We understand that many may not choose to purchase any of our shares, but we do hope that when we do launch you will choose to open a Bank account with us.

[Crypto Financial]

I read the prospectus.  I didn't see much in there about how you are planning to generate revenue?  Eg, if you take 3% of all transfers (in/out/debit/etc) that'd mean you would need to do $50 Million in transfers to break even?  I think we need to see the actual plan (fee structure?) to be able to judge your potential for success.

I'm not exactly a financial services regulations wizard, but I do kind of wonder why you can't get this sort of thing already.  There must be some reason the banks throw up all the walls when dealing with things internationally?  Eg, if I open an HSBC or a TD account in the states, I can't access it at branches in Canada.  Why do they do that?  Must be some regulatory reason for making things a pain for their customers, and that's what worries me about this.  $15 Million would be nothing to a bank to be able to merge all their accounts internationally.  Yet they don't do it...

Our revenues are generated both from wire in and out fees plus revenue sharing with the exchange platform. So a portion of each trade that takes place on any of the exchange platforms that will work with us will be paid to us by the exchange.

Different banks provide different services. If you open an International Business Account with HSBC you can have the ability to deposit and withdraw funds internationally between their
branches without fees, I believe Citibank offers that as well through their Hong Kong branch.

[Crypto Financial]

Is there another place where these people are actually answering the questions raised of the company? Their IPO is in a few days and they haven't answered, with even a  modicum of detail, any of the serious concerns. I'm a bit surprised, honestly. If I was a company in their situation, I'd be doing everything in my power to make everything as clear as possible to potential investors. I'd be very wary of this security until there is a lot more transparency (Name of the bank they are working with, ACTUAL business model with numbers, ACTUAL current cash on hand, etc...). Good luck, I hope you can come through!

We apologize as we are new to the Bitcointalk form and we are just learning the ropes when it comes to posting here. Thank you for your patience as we try to reply to your answers.
Crypto Financial will work as an independent Financial Service Provider with our own Banking platform, Swift registration, Debit cards, etc... The difference is that where other Bank institutions do not have an incentive to work with Bitcoin related companies, such as Bitfloor, Bitcoin-24, Bitspend and many other that were denied access to Fiat financial services due to their involvement in Crypto Currencies, we have found that by us pre-approving our own customers via due diligence and providing them with an account it will release the liability from those business needing to do the legwork and will let them concentrate on providing exchange platform or sell goods or services instead of being worried on whether or not their accounts will be frozen.

You as a customer will no longer need to wire Fiat funds to an Exchange account, but instead you will wire funds in and out of your own private bank account. When you send money to your account with our Bank, your Bank will not be able to deny you the ability to do, since you are sending money to your own account under your own name. Not to a third party exchange that has all of his customers funds in one account. Which can lead to the account being Frozen even if one transfer in or out of their was deemed suspicious by their Bank.

[canth]

Can you describe in more detail what is meant by "We have put in place the assets required for the company to become fully operational at more than $10 million in assets required for an International Bank."

Is this capital that the founders have contributed and if so, what is the source of these funds?

As Crypto Financial will only operate as a Financial Service provider and not as a lender the assets required at the time of the application is covered by our existing Bank as sponsor.
We have decided to offer the Crypto Currency community an opportunity to become shareholders of our Company as we offer up to a 20% stake.
Any net profit that we will derive from profit sharing fees with any of our exchange partners will be paid back as dividends.

We understand that many may not choose to purchase any of our shares, but we do hope that when we do launch you will choose to open a Bank account with us.

So to be clear, the $10M is a line of credit provided by your bank? What is the collateral in use for this? Have you provided personal guarantees?

[freedomno1]

I really like Havelock, but with the lack of communication we've been getting from Crypto Financial, and the lack of answers to fairly basic questions...I have zero confidence in this IPO, and I won't feel sorry for anyone that loses money on this.

Crypto Financial will be spending more time answering questions here, and we are now working with them to possibly release their full business plan (which we have analysed in detail already and has much more detail than the released prospectus), or a trimmed down version of it (removing any proprietary information first).. stay tuned!

I'd prefer the complete document I don't mind a spelling error here and there this type of IPO requires every detail when digesting information and determining proper valuation as the asset is not simple. However I understand the need to protect proprietary information in the business plan so will wait on the fuller document.
Thanks for the reply lightbox ^^.

[Crypto Financial]

Can you describe in more detail what is meant by "We have put in place the assets required for the company to become fully operational at more than $10 million in assets required for an International Bank."

Is this capital that the founders have contributed and if so, what is the source of these funds?

As Crypto Financial will only operate as a Financial Service provider and not as a lender the assets required at the time of the application is covered by our existing Bank as sponsor.
We have decided to offer the Crypto Currency community an opportunity to become shareholders of our Company as we offer up to a 20% stake.
Any net profit that we will derive from profit sharing fees with any of our exchange partners will be paid back as dividends.

We understand that many may not choose to purchase any of our shares, but we do hope that when we do launch you will choose to open a Bank account with us.

So to be clear, the $10M is a line of credit provided by your bank? What is the collateral in use for this? Have you provided personal guarantees?

It is a guarantee as sponsor for our services, collateral to guarantee our customers funds.

[Duffer1]

Can you describe in more detail what is meant by "We have put in place the assets required for the company to become fully operational at more than $10 million in assets required for an International Bank."

Is this capital that the founders have contributed and if so, what is the source of these funds?

As Crypto Financial will only operate as a Financial Service provider and not as a lender the assets required at the time of the application is covered by our existing Bank as sponsor.
We have decided to offer the Crypto Currency community an opportunity to become shareholders of our Company as we offer up to a 20% stake.
Any net profit that we will derive from profit sharing fees with any of our exchange partners will be paid back as dividends.

We understand that many may not choose to purchase any of our shares, but we do hope that when we do launch you will choose to open a Bank account with us.

So to be clear, the $10M is a line of credit provided by your bank? What is the collateral in use for this? Have you provided personal guarantees?

It is a guarantee as sponsor for our services, collateral to guarantee our customers funds.

English is not our Native language so even our Best legal team would have Grammar and Spelling issues.

It's still not clear where the other $10-12million in your valuation is coming from.  You want $3 million from us to rent an office, pay for employees, and provide liquidity at banks around the world.  I understand that.  So, how do you get from that $3million to a $15million valuation on your company?  Where's the other 12?  What do you have that's worth $12,000,000?

[DeathAndTaxes]

What do you have that's worth $12,000,000?

The unanswered answer is "an idea".  You provide the cash, they provide an idea and you get 25% 20% of the company.  So how many shares are you going to buy?

[ranlo]

What do you have that's worth $12,000,000?

The unanswered answer is "an idea".  You provide the cash, they provide an idea and you get 25% of the company.  So how many shares are you going to buy?

20%, not 25%. If this were 25% I'd be all over it. Then it would only be around 11.5 million for the idea! THATS HALF A MILLION LESS. YESSSSSSSSSSS!

[forensick]

The reason you need 3 million dollars, I'm guessing, is because that is the minimum capital required for a bank in Panama applying for an International License.

What are your plans if your application is denied by the Superitendency of Banks of Panama? Are you familiar with the requirements for this type of license and have you started the process? Unless you have experience in banking, I think the odds are that you will be denied.

http://www.superbancos.gob.pa/documentos_ing/laws_regulations/laws_regulations/licenses/acuerdo_3-2001.pdf

Also, are you aware that the issuance of bearer shares of any licensed bank in Panama is prohibited?

I can't fault you for ambition, but have you actually retained counsel? There are many dodgy websites promising that you can easily "own your own bank in Panama" but that really doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Thank you for your reply and for doing your homework.
We are based in Panama and several of our board members are directly involved in the Bank industry in Panama. 
We will not operate as a "Bank" and will not be regulated by the Superitendency of Banks of Panama as we will not lend out any of our customers funds or pay interest on account.
Instead we will operate as a licensed Financial Service provider very much like a Stock Broker in the U.S that has the ability to handle third party funds and licensed as a  in partnership with our local bank here in Panama. Our Banking platform will work on top of an existing Bank.
We will just do all the leg work for AML/KYC/SAR separately so they don't have to.

At least it is not any fancy "New Zealand financial company"

[felente]

...
We apologize as we are new to the Bitcointalk form and we are just learning the ropes when it comes to posting here. Thank you for your patience as we try to reply to your answers.
...

here are not much "ropes" on bitcointalk.
you are asking big real money and people here are asking real questions. easy as is.
maybe some real answers?

...
We understand that many may not choose to purchase any of our shares, but we do hope that when we do launch you will choose to open a Bank account with us.

so, for instance, which bank?
and who are You? past background? whatever else? some PARTICULAR data man!

for example if i tell you that i'm a great astronaut and need some lazy millions to fly (again) to moon and bring you back diamonds from there - will you trust me without some proofs (that i'm astronaut, at least)?
...not much ropes here at all, at bitcointalk.

[canth]

What do you have that's worth $12,000,000?

The unanswered answer is "an idea".  You provide the cash, they provide an idea and you get 25% 20% of the company.  So how many shares are you going to buy?

Technically to have a net worth of $15m it's an idea + execution. The idea might get them the IPO funds of $3m but if they don't execute then you can definitely believe the $15m valuation will dwindle to next to nothing.

[Crypto Financial]

...
We apologize as we are new to the Bitcointalk form and we are just learning the ropes when it comes to posting here. Thank you for your patience as we try to reply to your answers.
...

here are not much "ropes" on bitcointalk.
you are asking big real money and people here are asking real questions. easy as is.
maybe some real answers?

...
We understand that many may not choose to purchase any of our shares, but we do hope that when we do launch you will choose to open a Bank account with us.

so, for instance, which bank?
and who are You? past background? whatever else? some PARTICULAR data man!

for example if i tell you that i'm a great astronaut and need some lazy millions to fly (again) to moon and bring you back diamonds from there - will you trust me without some proofs (that i'm astronaut, at least)?
...not much ropes here at all, at bitcointalk.

Crypto Financial will operate under its own license and swift registration.
Many of the existing board members of the Bank did not want our Bank to be associated with Crypto Currencies
due to the many misconceptions that exist in the Crypto Currency environment (Some are legitimate, ie. Drugs, Scams etc...)
Some of us within the board do see the great potential that Crypto Currencies and in particular Bitcoin have in truly being revolutionary as
a payment gateway.

We understand the need for some of you to find out what is the name of our Bank. But out of respect to our other more conservative board members we decided to create a separate
financial entity that will deal excursively with Crypto Currency customers. That means a newly trained staff of Customers Services, Account Managers, Tech Support, Compliance officers, etc. who will understand the Crypto Currency realm and will not prejudge your account just because your business deals with Bitcoins.   

Also, asking us to revel the name of the Bank that will provide us the back-end resources, is like asking an ASIC mining company to give you the name of their Manufacturer.

Call any Panama based Bank and ask them to open a bank account. The first thing they will require you to do without exception is to visit Panama physically for a personal face to face
interview. This is the golden standard currently across all Banks here in Panama. We had to think out side of the Box and implement new technology (at least new to us) to bring about an easier way for us to verify our customers true identity across the internet and throughout the world. That is why we will have a dedicated team of professionals who will conduct AML/KYC/SAR screening to approve our customers.

Remember that now when you send funds to an exchange, those funds are bundled together with all the other customers. And that these funds can be frozen or delayed at any time due to any "suspicious" in or out transfer. With our approach your funds will be separate from the exchange until and when you choose to exchange your fiat to crypto or vice versa.

The cost associated with the opening of a Bank account (Due diligence verification, compliance software, Legal cost, Accounting cost, etc...) runs on average at the rate of $100 per account. Not including any maintenance cost once the account is open. Raising funds through this IPO will allow us for greater flexibility when opening an account for someone, regardless if they have $100,000 in the account or $100. Since we will not lend this funds out, we will treat each customer with the same respect.

We made the decision to offer a 20% stake in our Company through Havlock Investments and directly to the Bitcoin community for a few reasons:

1. It will allow the Bitcoin community to be a part of our future success or failure.
2. An easy way to reward our virtual shareholders with direct Dividends from any future profits
3. A way for the Bitcoin community to support and fund their own "credit union" which understands their needs
4. Support future International Bitcoin conventions here in Panama
5. Create an environment to make it easier for Fiat to merge with Crypto Currencies 

When we first learned about Bitcoin we were all very skeptical, "How do you just make up money out of nowhere using a computer program". But as we grow to understand the concept behind it, we became Bitcoin supporters as well. We understand your skepticism for our future plans, but we hope that in time you will come to join us and trust us as well.

Our current status:

Office, Computers, Legal Firm, Accounting Firm, License Application, Banking Platform (adjustments in the work for easier online application and fee structure)
are all in place. We are unable to publish our website yet since it would require the License to be finalized (As we will not place a website with the words "Financial" or "Bank" without
a license number in place) We will see what we can publish in the meantime.

[Duffer1]

Office, Computers, Legal Firm, Accounting Firm, License Application, Banking Platform

Where did the money for these things come from?  Where is your office located?

[Crypto Financial]

Office, Computers, Legal Firm, Accounting Firm, License Application, Banking Platform

Where did the money for these things come from?  Where is your office located?

We have personally raised the funds.
And we are located in Panama.
If you would like to stop by for coffee and talk about Bitcoin and our plans PM me and I would provide you with our contact info.