[HAVELOCK] Crypto Financial (CFIG) Official Thread

[Kuroth]

Interesting Idea..  Watching

[Crypto Financial]

Priority in Dividends issued to Havelock Investments Shareholders
Public Update to our prospectus:

DIVIDEND POLICY
revised August 16, 2013

On a monthly basis Crypto Financial will distribute dividends solely to unit holders on Havelock until the accumulated dividends total BTC0.15 per unit.
Moving forward from that point, dividends will be distributed equally among Havelock unit holders and private unit holders.
One Hundred Percent (100%) of all net income derived from the exchange of Fiat Currency to Crypto Currencies and vice versa by Crypto Financial will be paid out in dividends.

[bitfair]

So the reason you've only raised (at the time of writing) 1.7% of your total goal is just because your Business Plan is too long? Don't you think that's a bit...naive?

Looks like some whale was convinced: they have now attracted an additional 6k BTC.

[TraderTimm]

At your next board meeting, tell Erik Voorhees that we already know he's involved.

We'll be watching

[Korbman]

So the reason you've only raised (at the time of writing) 1.7% of your total goal is just because your Business Plan is too long? Don't you think that's a bit...naive?

Looks like some whale was convinced: they have now attracted an additional 6k BTC.

They probably got all excited while reading -REDACTED- under section -REDACTED- about how the -REDACTED-, which means the company will -REDACTED- both now and after -REDACTED- comes to fruition! As you can see, everyone wins!

[Duffer1]

On a monthly basis Crypto Financial will distribute dividends solely to unit holders on Havelock until the accumulated dividends total BTC0.15 per unit.
Moving forward from that point, dividends will be distributed equally among Havelock unit holders and private unit holders.

Not bad, but buying you a company then getting only 20% of it in return is still a deal breaker.  I get that you don't want a giant tick on your ass sucking the life out of your startup, and I get that you're doing all the work.  The problems from an investors perspective is that this is an extremely risky (imo) offer, and a terrible deal regardless of risk.

One Hundred Percent (100%) of all net income derived from the exchange of Fiat Currency to Crypto Currencies and vice versa by Crypto Financial will be paid out in dividends.

That doesn't actually fix the issue.  It's still just as ambiguous as it was before.  It should say: "One Hundred Percent (100%) of all net income will be paid out in dividends."  Unless you really are trying to limit dividends to profits from only one of your revenue streams...

[MonkeyBear68]

On a monthly basis Crypto Financial will distribute dividends solely to unit holders on Havelock until the accumulated dividends total BTC0.15 per unit.
Moving forward from that point, dividends will be distributed equally among Havelock unit holders and private unit holders.

Not bad, but buying you a company then getting only 20% of it in return is still a deal breaker.  I get that you don't want a giant tick on your ass sucking the life out of your startup, and I get that you're doing all the work.  The problems from an investors perspective is that this is an extremely risky (imo) offer, and a terrible deal regardless of risk.

One Hundred Percent (100%) of all net income derived from the exchange of Fiat Currency to Crypto Currencies and vice versa by Crypto Financial will be paid out in dividends.

That doesn't actually fix the issue.  It's still just as ambiguous as it was before.  It should say: "One Hundred Percent (100%) of all net income will be paid out in dividends."  Unless you really are trying to limit dividends to profits from only one of your revenue streams...

Actually in the real world it is ridiculous to expect 100% of the earnings to be paid out as dividends. Some has to be retained to reinvest in the business. It is obvious that there is a huge risk in starting this business, but it is equally obvious that Bitcoin needs a financial service such as this if other businesses are to start adopting it.

[jedunnigan]

So the reason you've only raised (at the time of writing) 1.7% of your total goal is just because your Business Plan is too long? Don't you think that's a bit...naive?

Looks like some whale was convinced: they have now attracted an additional 6k BTC.

They probably got all excited while reading -REDACTED- under section -REDACTED- about how the -REDACTED-, which means the company will -REDACTED- both now and after -REDACTED- comes to fruition! As you can see, everyone wins!

Would you be willing to audit them? Put --redacted-- to rest? I trust you, as do others here.

[Duffer1]

Actually in the real world it is ridiculous to expect 100% of the earnings to be paid out as dividends. Some has to be retained to reinvest in the business. It is obvious that there is a huge risk in starting this business, but it is equally obvious that Bitcoin needs a financial service such as this if other businesses are to start adopting it.

I saw no reinvestment strategy outlined in the prospectus or the business plan.

[MonkeyBear68]

The market cap of CFIG just passed HIM. CFIG is now the second highest fund on Havelock by market cap. I expect that it will overtake AM100 by the time the IPO is over and become the #1 fund on Havelock. Havelock investors clearly believe and trust in the CFIG fund. Congratulations to Crypto Financial on a successful first week of the IPO. 

[Korbman]

Looks like some whale was convinced: they have now attracted an additional 6k BTC.

They probably got all excited while reading -REDACTED- under section -REDACTED- about how the -REDACTED-, which means the company will -REDACTED- both now and after -REDACTED- comes to fruition! As you can see, everyone wins!

Would you be willing to audit them? Put --redacted-- to rest? I trust you, as do others here.

Yes and no.

Yes, I would be willing to do so, but they're not willing to let me. I've been in discussions off the board on this, and it sort of comes down to them not seeing the point in revealing the details to random people from "a forum" (even with a signed NDA) ...which is ironic in a way, considering it's the 'random people' they're trying to sway to fund them.

On the other hand, no, I'm not entirely sure I'd go above and beyond for them...and this also stems back to the off-forum discussions. They have groups of auditors already (or so I've been told), and I'd expect professional consultants to be vastly more thorough and knowledgeable when presented with full details.


Anyway, congrats on the whales jumping on board with this one. It's clear they know something that wasn't disclosed here.
At this point this sort of investment just isn't for me; too many 'unknowns' and the risk/reward ratio seems a bit construed. Not to mention if you're a business with a $10m investment held solely for licensing, something tells me you don't have to go pandering on the internet to secure another $3m to cover startup costs. From a business standpoint that doesn't make much sense, and in the end it just doesn't sit right with me.

[kleeck]

Priority in Dividends issued to Havelock Investments Shareholders
Public Update to our prospectus:

DIVIDEND POLICY
revised August 16, 2013

On a monthly basis Crypto Financial will distribute dividends solely to unit holders on Havelock until the accumulated dividends total BTC0.15 per unit.
Moving forward from that point, dividends will be distributed equally among Havelock unit holders and private unit holders.
One Hundred Percent (100%) of all net income derived from the exchange of Fiat Currency to Crypto Currencies and vice versa by Crypto Financial will be paid out in dividends.

To be clear, would the use of your debit cards for cash (i.e. ATM withdraws or sales requiring a BTC to Fiat conversion) be considered exchanging crypto currency to fiat and thus fall be paid out as part of the monthly dividend?

Thank you.

[jedunnigan]

Looks like some whale was convinced: they have now attracted an additional 6k BTC.

They probably got all excited while reading -REDACTED- under section -REDACTED- about how the -REDACTED-, which means the company will -REDACTED- both now and after -REDACTED- comes to fruition! As you can see, everyone wins!

Would you be willing to audit them? Put --redacted-- to rest? I trust you, as do others here.

Yes and no.

Yes, I would be willing to do so, but they're not willing to let me. I've been in discussions off the board on this, and it sort of comes down to them not seeing the point in revealing the details to random people from "a forum" (even with a signed NDA) ...which is ironic in a way, considering it's the 'random people' they're trying to sway to fund them.

On the other hand, no, I'm not entirely sure I'd go above and beyond for them...and this also stems back to the off-forum discussions. They have groups of auditors already (or so I've been told), and I'd expect professional consultants to be vastly more thorough and knowledgeable when presented with full details.


Anyway, congrats on the whales jumping on board with this one. It's clear they know something that wasn't disclosed here.
At this point this sort of investment just isn't for me; too many 'unknowns' and the risk/reward ratio seems a bit construed. Not to mention if you're a business with a $10m investment held solely for licensing, something tells me you don't have to go pandering on the internet to secure another $3m to cover startup costs. From a business standpoint that doesn't make much sense, and in the end it just doesn't sit right with me.

Ah, so they aren't being true to their word?

That's disappointing. In that case I understand your sentiment.

[MonkeyBear68]

Actually in the real world it is ridiculous to expect 100% of the earnings to be paid out as dividends. Some has to be retained to reinvest in the business. It is obvious that there is a huge risk in starting this business, but it is equally obvious that Bitcoin needs a financial service such as this if other businesses are to start adopting it.

I saw no reinvestment strategy outlined in the prospectus or the business plan.

The following quote is taken from page 8 of the revised prospectus which appears under fund reports on the Havelock website:

"All funds provided by our customers will remain in their account. Crypto Financial will not loan any of those funds out. 100% of the funds will remain intact under the customer’s account. Our fees and commission will provide for the profits and growth of our company."

The relevant text is highlighted in red.

[afrotec]

Priority in Dividends issued to Havelock Investments Shareholders
Public Update to our prospectus:

DIVIDEND POLICY
revised August 16, 2013

On a monthly basis Crypto Financial will distribute dividends solely to unit holders on Havelock until the accumulated dividends total BTC0.15 per unit.
Moving forward from that point, dividends will be distributed equally among Havelock unit holders and private unit holders.
One Hundred Percent (100%) of all net income derived from the exchange of Fiat Currency to Crypto Currencies and vice versa by Crypto Financial will be paid out in dividends.

To be clear, would the use of your debit cards for cash (i.e. ATM withdraws or sales requiring a BTC to Fiat conversion) be considered exchanging crypto currency to fiat and thus fall be paid out as part of the monthly dividend?

Thank you.

+1, would like to know this as well

[Pale Phoenix]

At your next board meeting, tell Erik Voorhees that we already know he's involved.

We'll be watching

Are you just having a laugh or do you know this for a fact?

Anyway, I wish the issuers luck because the idea, at least, seems to have potential. Unfortunately for me it has all been far too ambiguous and opaque. In fact, I'm still not clear on exactly which type of licensed institution they intend to be, and which authority issues that license, despite extensive due diligence on banking / financial licensure in Panama.

I'm also concerned about the imprecision of some of the language in the prospectus, and the failure to address some obvious risks, such as correspondent banking relationships and FACTA reporting on US citizen / resident accounts.

I'd be far more likely to invest if this venture were further along, more transparent, and structured in a way that gave early investors a level of equity more commensurate with their risk.

[Duffer1]

Actually in the real world it is ridiculous to expect 100% of the earnings to be paid out as dividends. Some has to be retained to reinvest in the business. It is obvious that there is a huge risk in starting this business, but it is equally obvious that Bitcoin needs a financial service such as this if other businesses are to start adopting it.

I saw no reinvestment strategy outlined in the prospectus or the business plan.

The following quote is taken from page 8 of the revised prospectus which appears under fund reports on the Havelock website:

"All funds provided by our customers will remain in their account. Crypto Financial will not loan any of those funds out. 100% of the funds will remain intact under the customer’s account. Our fees and commission will provide for the profits and growth of our company."

The relevant text is highlighted in red.

That is not a reinvestment strategy.  It just says that fees will give them profits.  "Growth" is not defined in any way.  You're assuming reinvestment.  Assumption is bad, especially in this case.

[felente]

*) is there a panamian bank really backing these guys @ ~$10 mio?
=> if that's not explicitly verifiable, then is that at least plausible to you (Havelock)?

Yes, a Panamanian bank has provided to Crypto Financial 10m USD, which is essentially held in trust at the bank and cannot be used for day to day operations. Its used as backing for government/regulators in order to secure the required licenses.

sorry to be late with my answer.
thank you

[Crypto Financial]

Priority in Dividends issued to Havelock Investments Shareholders
Public Update to our prospectus:

DIVIDEND POLICY
revised August 16, 2013

On a monthly basis Crypto Financial will distribute dividends solely to unit holders on Havelock until the accumulated dividends total BTC0.15 per unit.
Moving forward from that point, dividends will be distributed equally among Havelock unit holders and private unit holders.
One Hundred Percent (100%) of all net income derived from the exchange of Fiat Currency to Crypto Currencies and vice versa by Crypto Financial will be paid out in dividends.

To be clear, would the use of your debit cards for cash (i.e. ATM withdraws or sales requiring a BTC to Fiat conversion) be considered exchanging crypto currency to fiat and thus fall be paid out as part of the monthly dividend?

Thank you.

Crypto Financial will generate two types of revenue streams.

1. Fees from operating as a Financial Services provider: In and Out wire fees, conversion from Fiat to Fiat EUR > USD > JPY, Debit card fees etc.. These fees will pay for the day to day operation and growth of the company and will continue to be reinvested in the company. We will try to keep those fees to a minimum as to allow for our services to be offered at the lowest rate possible for Crypto Currencies customers and merchants. As the volume of our Active customers rise the fees will be lowered and vice versa.

Please remember that our company will only serve Crypto Currency customers and not the general population that just wants to open an international Bank account. This is in essence a Financial Services company by Bitcoiners for Bitcoiners. As more and more financial institution are closing their doors to Bitcoin users, we would like to be the company that provides Financial Services support to the Bitcoin community.

2. All net income derived from Profit Sharing agreements with Software Exchanges Platforms and Direct Purchase companies will be paid in turn to the Shareholders. Some of that income will be reinvested in future integration cost with said Exchange companies.

So to sum it up, think of Crypto Financial as a global "Credit Union" Allowing any Bitcoin related business that needs to interact with Fiat work with us.

We have revised our Dividends Policy to reflect the fact that our shareholders through Havelock Investments will receive priority for paid dividends until the price of ฿0.15 is reached.


Thank you,

Crypto Financial

[TsuyokuNaritai]

Crypto Financial, please fix you text formatting. You keep putting line breaks in the middle of your sentences, presumably where the line ends in whatever editor you're pasting from. It makes your statements difficult to read and looks very unprofessional/technically clueless. Thanks.