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Bitcoin Forum > Bitcoin > Bitcoin Discussion > Press > 2013-08-06 Reuters: U.S. judge says SEC can pursue Bitcoin-related lawsuit
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jgarzik (OP)
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August 07, 2013, 02:54:28 AM
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U.S. judge says SEC can pursue Bitcoin-related lawsuit
URL: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/06/us-court-sec-bitcoin-idUSBRE97517G20130806

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U.S. regulators got the green light from a federal judge to proceed with their lawsuit against a Texas man accused of running a Ponzi scheme using Bitcoin, the virtual online money system.

Trendon Shavers of Bitcoin Savings & Trust had challenged the Securities and Exchange Commission's case against him, saying the regulator had no jurisdiction to sue him because the Bitcoin investments he offered are not securities or subject to any U.S. regulation.

But U.S. Magistrate Judge Amos L. Mazzant in the Eastern District of Texas ruled on Tuesday that his Bitcoin investments "meet the definition of investment contract, and as such, are securities."
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August 07, 2013, 03:00:54 AM
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I apologize in advance for the cross post, but I wanted to point out the below fact.

Quote from: btceic on August 07, 2013, 12:15:46 AM
There you go, a US federal judge presiding over a case with the SEC has formerly stated that bitcoin is a form of money.

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Therefore, Bitcoin is a currency or form of money, and investors wishing to invest in BTCST provided an investment of money.
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August 07, 2013, 05:01:35 AM
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Ok judge, so which is it, are bitcoins money or securities?

Does thaat distinction mean anything or matter?

Can bitcoin be both?
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August 07, 2013, 05:09:18 AM
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Quote from: kjlimo on August 07, 2013, 05:01:35 AM
Ok judge, so which is it, are bitcoins money or securities?

Does thaat distinction mean anything or matter?

Can bitcoin be both?

The judge never said Bitcoins are securities/investments.  He said what Pirate offered was a security/investment.  The fact that they were denominated in Bitcoins didn't automatically make them not a security/investment (a highly dubious theory held by many for a long time).
casascius
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August 07, 2013, 05:10:57 AM
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Quote from: kjlimo on August 07, 2013, 05:01:35 AM
Ok judge, so which is it, are bitcoins money or securities?

Does thaat distinction mean anything or matter?

Can bitcoin be both?

As I understood it, bitcoins are money and Pirate's promise to repay principal and interest is a security.
Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.
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