Bitcoin Forum
May 03, 2024, 12:44:01 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Do all bitcoin businesses have to register as MSBs as per FinCIN guidance?  (Read 1063 times)
halfawake (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 08, 2013, 04:41:29 AM
 #1

I'm referring to businesses based in the United States, or those that accept US customers.  This is what puzzles me about the FinCIN guidance, which to me, doesn't make much sense really.  The way I understand it, all Bitcoin businesses that either reside in the United States, or interact with US customers, should register as MSBs.  But my eyes kinda glaze over at legalese so I could be wrong about this interpretation. 

I get that the exchanges have to register, but I'm more curious about other businesses that aren't exchanges, but by default have to exchange Bitcoins into dollars because for most people, most of your expenses are still dollar denominated these days.

BTC: 13kJEpqhkW5MnQhWLvum7N5v8LbTAhzeWj
1714697041
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714697041

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714697041
Reply with quote  #2

1714697041
Report to moderator
1714697041
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714697041

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714697041
Reply with quote  #2

1714697041
Report to moderator
1714697041
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714697041

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714697041
Reply with quote  #2

1714697041
Report to moderator
"Your bitcoin is secured in a way that is physically impossible for others to access, no matter for what reason, no matter how good the excuse, no matter a majority of miners, no matter what." -- Greg Maxwell
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714697041
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714697041

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714697041
Reply with quote  #2

1714697041
Report to moderator
1714697041
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714697041

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714697041
Reply with quote  #2

1714697041
Report to moderator
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079


Gerald Davis


View Profile
August 08, 2013, 04:50:08 AM
 #2

Correct answer:  obtain legal counsel.

Simplified forum answer:  the guidance only refers to business (and yes an individual operating for profit is seen as a "business") which are in the BUSINESS of exchanging virtual currency for real currency (or one virtual currency for another one).

So it really depends on what you mean by "Bitcoin business". 

Are you planning on opening any exchange?  Then yes you must register. 
Are you panning on operating as a direct broker like coinbase?  Then yes you must register.
Are you planning on selling goods or services for Bitcoins?  Then no you do not need to register.

A company which sells widgets for Bitcoins is in the business of selling widgets for Bitcoins and thus isn't an "exchanger" per the guidance.
adub
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 171
Merit: 100


Changing avatars is currently not possible.


View Profile WWW
August 08, 2013, 05:40:00 AM
 #3

Correct answer:  obtain legal counsel.
+1

Also, depends on the state. That is where you have to register as an MSB. (If your business is an actual money transmitter)

blog.atlantabitcoin.com || www.linkedin.com/in/atlantabitcoin
Ask me about how to legally operate Bitcoin ATM/Kiosks in the US!
Curious about how the various Bitcoin ATMs measure up? Check out bitcoinatmsales.com.
Bitrated: https://www.bitrated.com/aawilliams/
halfawake (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 500


View Profile
August 09, 2013, 04:59:21 AM
 #4

Correct answer:  obtain legal counsel.

Simplified forum answer:  the guidance only refers to business (and yes an individual operating for profit is seen as a "business") which are in the BUSINESS of exchanging virtual currency for real currency (or one virtual currency for another one).

So it really depends on what you mean by "Bitcoin business". 

Are you planning on opening any exchange?  Then yes you must register. 
Are you panning on operating as a direct broker like coinbase?  Then yes you must register.
Are you planning on selling goods or services for Bitcoins?  Then no you do not need to register.

A company which sells widgets for Bitcoins is in the business of selling widgets for Bitcoins and thus isn't an "exchanger" per the guidance.


Yes, I do plan on obtaining legal counsel before actually starting up the business I have in mind.  Just pondering some of the legal implications before doing so.  Thanks though, your conclusions were pretty much the same as mine.

Interestingly, Coinbase seems to disagree with you about the requirements.  They are not a money transmitter by their own admission: https://coinbase.com/legal/user_agreement

BTC: 13kJEpqhkW5MnQhWLvum7N5v8LbTAhzeWj
DeathAndTaxes
Donator
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079


Gerald Davis


View Profile
August 09, 2013, 05:04:31 AM
 #5

They registered with FinCEN as a money transmitter.  Still don't take the above as written in stone.  Personally I believe FinCEN guidance is on rather weak ground.  I guess it all depends on how far your legal counsel is willing to push things.
pccs
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 97
Merit: 10



View Profile
August 10, 2013, 06:38:01 PM
 #6


What about advertising and selling for cash on localbitcoins?
CompNsci
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 332
Merit: 253


View Profile
August 12, 2013, 04:58:36 PM
 #7


What about advertising and selling for cash on localbitcoins?

It seems like the guidance is quite unclear here. It mentions individuals trading bitcoins for goods and services as being in the clear.

Also note that the definition of currency in many states excludes BTC (for example, CA).
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!