[POLL/VOTE] What should Avalon do with our past due orders?

[bitcoin carpenter]

I hope everyone gets refunded ... even better would be for yifu to show how much he cares about the btc community and to use all those extra chips to create k1's and to sell them at cost to people interested in entering into the mining world.
truth is 80000 k1's in 80000 new peoples hands would do more for the price of btc then any of these start up asic communities will ever do

[1715501203]

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[driksson]

I hope everyone gets refunded ... even better would be for yifu to show how much he cares about the btc community and to use all those extra chips to create k1's and to sell them at cost to people interested in entering into the mining world.
truth is 80000 k1's in 80000 new peoples hands would do more for the price of btc then any of these start up asic communities will ever do

seriously? more chips mined equals higher btc price?
and avalon has their own boards. k1 are open source project. (avalons boards are also open source).

[bitcoin carpenter]

I hope everyone gets refunded ... even better would be for yifu to show how much he cares about the btc community and to use all those extra chips to create k1's and to sell them at cost to people interested in entering into the mining world.
truth is 80000 k1's in 80000 new peoples hands would do more for the price of btc then any of these start up asic communities will ever do

seriously? more chips mined equals higher btc price?
and avalon has their own boards. k1 are open source project. (avalons boards are also open source).

no what i meant was the more people there are mining, the more interest there is in bitcoins, the higher the price of bitcoins
basically sell  block erupters that will have almost no roi to people just opening up wallets to strengthen the network as well as get more people interested in btc.....

or better yet give them to people in third world countries with computer access and call it a donation for non profit

[Bicknellski]

Avalon needs to provide proper information on the chips and give refunds to the customers, and until they do, we are going to boycott and start legal actions. That is not in the poll but that is what group buy leaders need to do together. We can force Avalon on this because they are in breach of contract. There are no valid excuses at this point the only solution is to provide proper compensation and information in a timely fashion which means right NOW.

[Toolhead]

+1 Bicknellski

[HeRetiK]

no what i meant was the more people there are mining, the more interest there is in bitcoins, the higher the price of bitcoins
basically sell  block erupters that will have almost no roi to people just opening up wallets to strengthen the network as well as get more people interested in btc.....

or better yet give them to people in third world countries with computer access and call it a donation for non profit

more chips doesn't equal more people mining. people have yet to fully grasp the concept of cryptocurrencies, let alone the concept of mining.

[driksson]

Avalon needs to provide proper information on the chips and give refunds to the customers

Yes agree. This information should have come halfway through the ten weeks delivery time. NOT five weeks AFTER delivery due date! Then we could have decided then what to do, stay on or ask for refund..

[Vigil]

Agree Bicknellski. I have posted a link to this topic in the TerraHash thread. Please make a post over there. There were tons of orders placed but I don't hear anything from anyone.

[Bitcoinorama]

Avalon needs to provide proper information on the chips and give refunds to the customers, and until they do, we are going to boycott and start legal actions. That is not in the poll but that is what group buy leaders need to do together. We can force Avalon on this because they are in breach of contract. There are no valid excuses at this point the only solution is to provide proper compensation and information in a timely fashion which means right NOW.

This includes the official Chinese customs dockets detailing the hold up in customs. Which obviously, if true, they have in their possession.

[kevinm]

He has handed over the western buyers batch to the Wo shing wo.
he is now in a 2nd production run which will deliver 6 weeks late, minimum.
1 shipment was made to Zefir to pacify the western community.
he has conned us all, refund now

[Bitoy]

Bitsyncom should give their customers coupons for late deliveries. 

Coupon (in bitcoins) must be based on bitcoins lost from the time they promised delivery to the actual delivery date.

Coupons can be used for future purchases ie avalon v 2.

[KS]

Bitsyncom should give their customers coupons for late deliveries. 
(...)
Coupons can be used for future purchases ie avalon v 2.

That would be the smart move. Coupons are a good way to offer a price reduction while making sure you have return customers (without sacrificing your capacity to create new products).

This would also be beneficial to the grassroots ASICs "industry", built by all those who started their own business around the Avalons chips. It should guarantee them more work in the future and a way to recoup their investments. I'd be pretty disappointed if that community tanked because of Avalon.

[SebastianJu]

30 days? WTF are you smoking? Seriously. They are already 37 days behind on some of the orders give them another 30? Fuck me. How about you just let then ship whenever they want? The deal was 9 - 10 weeks. If they failed to do that they are in breach of contract. We need refunds. Full stop. If we don't get refunds we boycott them as hard and vigorously as we can so that we will seriously disrupt the GEN2 chip sales and hurt them on the bottom line and we do that until we are all adequately compensated. Anything less and you are being suicidal.

http://support.avalon-asic.com/ <--- START A REFUND TICKET here.

Such refund ticket, is for B2B clients such as SebastianJu, SteamBoat & Zefir. So far only SebastianJu seems to speak up.
I know the others are not sitting happily in their boats, but they should be the ones asking for our refund..

Our group put in a refund ticket 6 days ago. No reply.

wow.. i hope all groupbuys does it. SebastianJu?

Not until its lost. The chips are still getting roi so most of the members dont want a refund. This might change with time of course. But fighting yifu now only might lead to him blocking even more. Forcing him to deliver is ok, but pure hate, fighting wont lead to the best results i think.
Of course, if he delays the chips so far that the wont ROI and if he dont want to give refund i will have to sue him.

[KS]

(...) if he delays the chips so far that the wont ROI and if he dont want to give refund i will have to sue him.

With the number of ppl involved, that's probably cause for a class action.

[Bicknellski]

Sorry,

But a failure to deliver on time. Not provide proper information demands refunds. As for Yifu blocking the chips even further at this point is meaningless we need to simply boycott Avalon and make sure we disrupt his Gen2 to Gen4 sales here in this community as much as possible. We have a breach of contract and that must be rectified now SebJu asking for coupons, waiting for him to deliver another 1 to 2 weeks later is not the terms and conditions we agreed to as chip buyers. It was 4 weeks for developer chips and 9 to 10 weeks for the main orders. Avalon failed to deliver. I do not see how politely accepting compromises for such a failure is in anyone's best interest especially the community. We all need to stop being weak and band together and cause Avalon some pain back where it counts Gen2 sales. BOYCOTT until we are all properly compensated. Refunds must be given if asked that is LEGALLY what we are entitled to given the failure to deliver the product. We will be emailing all the interested group buy owners soon to start legal action against Yifu and Avalon.

[Bitcoinorama]

(...) if he delays the chips so far that the wont ROI and if he dont want to give refund i will have to sue him.

With the number of ppl involved, that's probably cause for a class action.

Least of his problems if he's purposefully delayed anything for his own financial gain, now the US has recognised Bitcoin as a currency and he's potentially been directly manipulating it. That's a serious allegation.

[KS]

Sorry,

But a failure to deliver on time. Not provide proper information demands refunds. As for Yifu blocking the chips even further at this point is meaningless we need to simply boycott Avalon and make sure we disrupt his Gen2 to Gen4 sales here in this community as much as possible. We have a breach of contract and that must be rectified now SebJu asking for coupons, waiting for him to deliver another 1 to 2 weeks later is not the terms and conditions we agreed to as chip buyers. It was 4 weeks for developer chips and 9 to 10 weeks for the main orders. Avalon failed to deliver. I do not see how politely accepting compromises for such a failure is in anyone's best interest especially the community. We all need to stop being weak and band together and cause Avalon some pain back where it counts Gen2 sales. BOYCOTT until we are all properly compensated. Refunds must be given if asked that is LEGALLY what we are entitled to given the failure to deliver the product. We will be emailing all the interested group buy owners soon to start legal action against Yifu and Avalon.

I hear you but, just think of those (not me) who have invested in the 100K+ USD range on equipment (not even on the ASIC chips) that they will probably have to scrap if they get a refund and no chips. Not to mention the depreciation of the BTC in USD terms (up to 50%).

I seriously don't think a refund is the best option, but if you think it's what's best for you, I hope Avalon will make that an option too.

[driksson]

Sorry,

But a failure to deliver on time. Not provide proper information demands refunds. As for Yifu blocking the chips even further at this point is meaningless we need to simply boycott Avalon and make sure we disrupt his Gen2 to Gen4 sales here in this community as much as possible. We have a breach of contract and that must be rectified now SebJu asking for coupons, waiting for him to deliver another 1 to 2 weeks later is not the terms and conditions we agreed to as chip buyers. It was 4 weeks for developer chips and 9 to 10 weeks for the main orders. Avalon failed to deliver. I do not see how politely accepting compromises for such a failure is in anyone's best interest especially the community. We all need to stop being weak and band together and cause Avalon some pain back where it counts Gen2 sales. BOYCOTT until we are all properly compensated. Refunds must be given if asked that is LEGALLY what we are entitled to given the failure to deliver the product. We will be emailing all the interested group buy owners soon to start legal action against Yifu and Avalon.

I hear you but, just think of those (not me) who have invested in the 100K+ USD range on equipment (not even on the ASIC chips) that they will probably have to scrap if they get a refund and no chips. Not to mention the depreciation of the BTC in USD terms (up to 50%).

I seriously don't think a refund is the best option, but if you think it's what's best for you, I hope Avalon will make that an option too.

That is exactly why the groupbuyers and hosting investors should ask for a refund/compensation. Initiate the refund, offer new price when they have stock, and give groupbuyers priority to get back in line.
Or are you suggesting that risking getting the chips when they are worthless, is actually what they want?
If i'd invested 100k in hardware, i'd rather get back something of the additional chip investment..
If they do a refund then, they would redeem themselves and hosting investors can purchase gen 2 chips to put on the boards, since they say that hardware designs wont change (or very little).

[KS]

It depends what is cheaper for you.

For me, getting the chips in August/September is the cheapest, as the price difference from a full refund and having the chips mine away is about 20%. That means that 80% of my investment would still be tied up waiting for boards ready for the Gen2 chips.

I don't suppose the new Gen2 chips will mine directly on the boards, so, even if things go super smoothly and there is no delay in procurement for the changed parts for the PCBs, I don't expect anything working on Gen2 before November 1st.

Normally, now would be the time to cut your losses and reinvest in something more profitable, but 20% is not a big enough difference, and given all other associated costs, it would actually be more costly for me to not go forward with this.

But you should definitely re-evaluate your options.

[ProfMac]

I think the survey should have the selection:
  "deliver as soon as possible"