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Author Topic: Unconfirmed Parent (while upgrading to Electrum 3.0.5)  (Read 38 times)
pazuzu23
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January 08, 2018, 08:15:48 PM
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Conforming to the security advisory I upgraded to Electrum 3.0.5.

I had a grand total of ~ 31.69 USD. So, iaw the idiom " an education is not free". I decided to roll the dice and see what popped out:
I sent the max option to my blockchain.info wallet. That displayed in history as unconfirmed parent nod could not be found in the default block explorer. I had previously experimented with a negligible amount from the blockchain. info account for 11 USD with about 1.27 USD fee. That remained as Low Fee since saturday with no change. the Block explorer showed something in the fee box about "dust".
So after the Electrum finished migrating or whatever it does the history now displays 2 Tx's that I did not initiate precisely. The dates were both today (8 January). Blockchain.info shows the 2 completed Tx's with the correct date 6th and the 8th.
So what made the original (11 USD with about 1.27 USD fee" suddenly complete then suddenly complete a send of about 1.67 and a fee of 30 USD. Strictly speaking the unconfirmed amount never arrived but it created the Tx of 1.67 and fee 30.00.

I don't really know what the takeaway is from that but not really wild about the idea of the electrum creating a Tx with whatever it has at some later date from a transaction that could not be found in block explorer.

What am I missing here? i'm good with the educational cost but i'd like to get the education part.
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AdolfinWolf
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January 08, 2018, 08:37:20 PM
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Conforming to the security advisory I upgraded to Electrum 3.0.5.

I had a grand total of ~ 31.69 USD. So, iaw the idiom " an education is not free". I decided to roll the dice and see what popped out:
I sent the max option to my blockchain.info wallet. That displayed in history as unconfirmed parent nod could not be found in the default block explorer. I had previously experimented with a negligible amount from the blockchain. info account for 11 USD with about 1.27 USD fee. That remained as Low Fee since saturday with no change. the Block explorer showed something in the fee box about "dust".
So after the Electrum finished migrating or whatever it does the history now displays 2 Tx's that I did not initiate precisely. The dates were both today (8 January). Blockchain.info shows the 2 completed Tx's with the correct date 6th and the 8th.
So what made the original (11 USD with about 1.27 USD fee" suddenly complete then suddenly complete a send of about 1.67 and a fee of 30 USD. Strictly speaking the unconfirmed amount never arrived but it created the Tx of 1.67 and fee 30.00.

I don't really know what the takeaway is from that but not really wild about the idea of the electrum creating a Tx with whatever it has at some later date from a transaction that could not be found in block explorer.

What am I missing here? i'm good with the educational cost but i'd like to get the education part.


Could you provide transaction ID's?

If i'm getting you correctly -- you're wondering why your fees are so high - right? 1.67$ sent and 30$ in fees.

The reason is probably that you are sending small amounts from a lot of different outputs. This generates enormous amounts of bytes, and thus high transaction fees.

Also, why it completed was probably because you indirectly/unknowingly did a Child Pays For Parent.

Basically, when the transaction fee is higher then the amount you're trying to sent, you could refer to it as dust.
Another good definition can be found here, https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/10986/what-is-meant-by-bitcoin-dust

pazuzu23
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January 08, 2018, 08:49:33 PM
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f69c26632ff46ca7df8d11d3b2f2cd348df442a6bce800a4afe11b1ec5bdc4ae

this is the one where it took it upon itself to course correct: i had max option for unconfirmed btc which did not arrive and the history display showed unconfirmed parent and could not be found in block explorer. latter it showed the tx id above completed.


in the history is shows today's date but in block explorer in shows the correct dat being 6 jan. hit had dust in the fee box earlier this am and low fee. now out of the ble simultaneously with the other anomaly
8ac63b4346898f828cf78005c356b92078cb6ded2ad464a65576b117a10a3922
this completed.

edit: unknowingly did a Child Pays For Parent. fair enough but that is my issue i did not click/ok.... that. i'd prefer to make thar choice.

also my Tx number is actually quite low, minus the Tx 6 jan and then 8 jan which was not found until electrum? reconfigured the Tx to send 1 dollar for 30 dollars. god bless capitalism!

also last but not least i neglected to thank you @AdolfinWolf. not just everyone is willing to share their knowledge, skills and abilities.
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January 09, 2018, 02:06:23 AM
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edit: unknowingly did a Child Pays For Parent. fair enough but that is my issue i did not click/ok.... that. i'd prefer to make thar choice.
Electrum does not "automatically" create CPFP payments. The user has to specifically select CPFP, then set it up and then send it. So, if it got sent, then YOU sent it. You may have done this accidentally, but you still clicked send. There is simply no way that Electrum just sent coins without your say so.


Quote
also my Tx number is actually quite low, minus the Tx 6 jan and then 8 jan which was not found until electrum? reconfigured the Tx to send 1 dollar for 30 dollars. god bless capitalism!
The fee is not related to the amount sent... if you'd had it available in your wallet, you could very well have sent $1,000,000 of BTC for that same $30... wouldn't have seemed so bad then would it?






pazuzu23
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January 10, 2018, 05:57:07 PM
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Quote
also my Tx number is actually quite low, minus the Tx 6 jan and then 8 jan which was not found until electrum? reconfigured the Tx to send 1 dollar for 30 dollars. god bless capitalism!
Quote
The fee is not related to the amount sent... if you'd had it available in your wallet, you could very well have sent $1,000,000 of BTC for that same $30... wouldn't have seemed so bad then would it?

I don't dispute that i created and sent "a" transaction, simply not this specific transaction. I had unconfirmed coins in my wallet. I also had about 31.67USD confirmed actual balance. I selected "max" then send to another online wallet (mine). The unconfirmed coins never arrived to electrum unilaterally and summarily sent 1 usd or so with a fee of 30 usd.
so yes, i created a tx but did not define 1.67 with a 30 USD fee. You see where i take exception with electrum redefining terms?

I don't care about the 31 dollars because this was ever just an experiment and educational venture. I did learn not to engage in a transaction with unconfirmed coins. electrum will disregard any unconfirmed coins and attach whatever fee, regardless of how ludicrous , it deems like the thing to do.

I'm good with it. i also know more than i did going in. mission accomplished.



"The fee is not related to the amount sent"  how does that work?  what is the fee related to?
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January 10, 2018, 07:03:44 PM
 #6

The unconfirmed coins never arrived to electrum unilaterally and summarily sent 1 usd or so with a fee of 30 usd.
so yes, i created a tx but did not define 1.67 with a 30 USD fee. You see where i take exception with electrum redefining terms?
No, because Electrum does not do this... when you click MAX, it will clearly show the amount that is being sent, and the fee that is being used. If you subsequently click "send", then it was indeed you that signed off on this transaction.

Electrum doesn't change any values after you click "send", it uses what you have instructed it to use. If you honestly believe that it has, then you should contact the devs and raise an issue on the github so they can investigate and fix the bug.



Quote
"The fee is not related to the amount sent"  how does that work?  what is the fee related to?
The "data size" of the transaction usually measured in bytes... the "legacy" method for guesstimating the transaction data size (before SegWit) was:

Transaction Size in Bytes = (#Inputs * 148) + (#Outputs * 34) + 10

With Electrum, you can get a fairly accurate estimate of the transaction size, by setting up a transaction and then clicking the "preview" button.

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