The scaling solution

[aleksej996]

As fees are high right now and have been this way for quite some time now, it seems like Bitcoin is becoming very expensive to use for everyday stuff.
My worry is that it will stay this way at least until Bitcoin Core starts fully supporting segwit, which is supposed to be in May in version 0.16, if I am not mistaken?
I want to hear serious objective opinions on this situation, without any finger pointing.

Primarily the issue I am seeing is that very dedicated users who tried to build Bitcoin into a widespread standard currency used in everyday life are now perhaps dependent to some extent on Bitcoin being used for such purposes., as some are selling their products for Bitcoin so they can increase the adoption.
Also some might be buying certain products in Bitcoin exclusively, but they are likely to be able to switch more easily, unlike merchants.

I do like Lightning Network and segwit as solutions for the scaling problem, but it seems to be taking some time and that is probably hurting our most dedicated users. Perhaps having a quick solution that is simple to implement is not that bad. May is still 4 months away and it is always possible for deadlines to increase.

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[eternalgloom]

As fees are high right now and have been this way for quite some time now, it seems like Bitcoin is becoming very expensive to use for everyday stuff.
My worry is that it will stay this way at least until Bitcoin Core starts fully supporting segwit, which is supposed to be in May in version 0.16, if I am not mistaken?
I want to hear serious objective opinions on this situation, without any finger pointing.

Primarily the issue I am seeing is that very dedicated users who tried to build Bitcoin into a widespread standard currency used in everyday life are now perhaps dependent to some extent on Bitcoin being used for such purposes., as some are selling their products for Bitcoin so they can increase the adoption.
Also some might be buying certain products in Bitcoin exclusively, but they are likely to be able to switch more easily, unlike merchants.

I do like Lightning Network and segwit as solutions for the scaling problem, but it seems to be taking some time and that is probably hurting our most dedicated users. Perhaps having a quick solution that is simple to implement is not that bad. May is still 4 months away and it is always possible for deadlines to increase.

Are you using segwit already? I'm not trying to be passive aggressive or anything, a genuine question...
You can already create a segwit address with the latest versions of Electrum and I'd suggest you do so if you want to pay lower fees.

Change starts with yourself

[aleksej996]

As fees are high right now and have been this way for quite some time now, it seems like Bitcoin is becoming very expensive to use for everyday stuff.
My worry is that it will stay this way at least until Bitcoin Core starts fully supporting segwit, which is supposed to be in May in version 0.16, if I am not mistaken?
I want to hear serious objective opinions on this situation, without any finger pointing.

Primarily the issue I am seeing is that very dedicated users who tried to build Bitcoin into a widespread standard currency used in everyday life are now perhaps dependent to some extent on Bitcoin being used for such purposes., as some are selling their products for Bitcoin so they can increase the adoption.
Also some might be buying certain products in Bitcoin exclusively, but they are likely to be able to switch more easily, unlike merchants.

I do like Lightning Network and segwit as solutions for the scaling problem, but it seems to be taking some time and that is probably hurting our most dedicated users. Perhaps having a quick solution that is simple to implement is not that bad. May is still 4 months away and it is always possible for deadlines to increase.

Are you using segwit already? I'm not trying to be passive aggressive or anything, a genuine question...
You can already create a segwit address with the latest versions of Electrum and I'd suggest you do so if you want to pay lower fees.

Change starts with yourself

I only use Bitcoin Core for obvious reasons, so no, I just don't send any transactions.
I am not one of these merchants I am referring to, I just simply feel bad for them as some are genuinely just trying to make Bitcoin widely adopted.

[aleksej996]

Actually, we already have scaling solution such as SegWit which can solve current bitcoin problem if everyone use SegWit. Subhan Nadeem mentioned all pending transaction in mempool will be confirmed and mempool will empty if everyone use SegWit which is possible because we no longer use block size, but block weight and SegWit has lower weight size (about 75% lower compared with weight size in legacy address).
Bitcoin also have future scaling solution for long term such as LN, MAST, Schnorr signature and other proposal.

In short, we already have the solution, all we need to do is adopt the solutions.

I hope I was clear in my original post that I do understand this being the case.
The problem is that this will not be adopted by Bitcoin Core at least for 4 months, as I understand, in v0.16.
This is why I am starting to think that an alternative simple and quick solution is not such a bad idea, not saying it is a good idea, but I wanted to hear other opinions as well.

[Astargath]

Has anyone read the telegram whitepaper? They claim the Telegram Open Network (TON) will be a “third generation” blockchain with more efficient transaction and scaling capabilities than current solutions like Bitcoin and Ethereum.

[biarox]

Has anyone read the telegram whitepaper? They claim the Telegram Open Network (TON) will be a “third generation” blockchain with more efficient transaction and scaling capabilities than current solutions like Bitcoin and Ethereum.

Yeah, but honestly, your comment has nothing to do with this post 'cause TON doesn't scale BTC or any other digital asset but their own.

"WeChat But With Crypto: With TON, Telegram aims to develop cryptocurrency-based utility akin to WeChat, which has blossomed into much more than a chat app and acts as default payment mechanism for many in China. While payments can be made very quickly in WeChat for a variety of services, the system remains very centralized. A decentralized platform such as TON could offer more security and resilience."

Do we really need another "decentralized social media platform"?

Now, answering the post, I totally agree with you, however, if you check BTC Github (especially the BIP), you'll notice that the last update was made 2 days ago, which means that the developers are active and always improving. So BTC scaling capabilities are a close reality that soon we'll be able to enjoy =)

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips
 

[BitcoinPicasso]

May is around the corner so I don't think the release date is a problem. Four months will fly by and we'll finally have a fix.

However, I do agree with you on the fact that this took SO FUCKING LONG TO FIX! what the hell is wrong with these developer guys is all I can think. Here we have this great new technology that everyone in the world wants in on and the primary currency in this whole new revolution has been broken for way too long. WTF is all I can say and just shake my head, turn around and walk away. un fucking believable.   

[biarox]

(...)
In short, we already have the solution, all we need to do is adopt the solutions.

Why this resistance then?

(...)
However, I do agree with you on the fact that this took SO FUCKING LONG TO FIX! what the hell is wrong with these developer guys is all I can think.
(...)

If you were a developer you would know. If I had the solution for BTC scaling issue I would code for free and I wouldn't receive a single satoshi for it. Would you do the same? I don't think so, I wouldn't either, not everybody has free time to work for free. =)

[Mrnat]

Totally, everybody claims, but as this is open source, the best idea as a united community as we suppose to be, we should get organized and donate whatever is in our capacity, in a well suited and transparent team, with the organic intent to fix the scalability issues for good, i bet many BTC holder will donate, i will personally donate if all that criteria are met, so there would be no more free work issue, but where can we see that kind of organization ?

[aleksej996]

Totally, everybody claims, but as this is open source, the best idea as a united community as we suppose to be, we should get organized and donate whatever is in our capacity, in a well suited and transparent team, with the organic intent to fix the scalability issues for good, i bet many BTC holder will donate, i will personally donate if all that criteria are met, so there would be no more free work issue, but where can we see that kind of organization ?

Perhaps funding individual developers to do a certain job is a better idea. We don't need to be organized about this either, we can simply donate to any dev that we think is doing a good job and would do more if he received donations. We will need to start looking into developers more closely then.

[Clement Kaliyar]

I do like Lightning Network and segwit as solutions for the scaling problem, but it seems to be taking some time and that is probably hurting our most dedicated users. Perhaps having a quick solution that is simple to implement is not that bad. May is still 4 months away and it is always possible for deadlines to increase.

I have a doubt still,will lightning network and segwit combination will be a complete solution for the scaling issues we have,after implementing are you telling that more than a couple of million transaction can be made in an hour and will be able for everyone to use on a daily basis,does these upgrade in march will be the ultimate solution,if so great,i would like to know these details.

[spiker777]

The solutions are already being worked on, the problem is adoption. Firstly, convince everyone to start using a segwit address, boycott companies that don't. Secondly, help contribute to the development of the lightning network by playing around with it on the test-net.

[ABCbits]

(...)
In short, we already have the solution, all we need to do is adopt the solutions.

Why this resistance then?

--snip--

Many reasons such as :
1. Poeple don't know the advantage of SegWit or/and don't bother do research which make them keep use legacy address.
2. People don't bother adopt new technology, it's proved by SegWit adoption/usage is only about 10%-12%.
3. Wallet or services don't use SegWit by default, still implant SegWit to their system or simply don't bother.

Totally, everybody claims, but as this is open source, the best idea as a united community as we suppose to be, we should get organized and donate whatever is in our capacity, in a well suited and transparent team, with the organic intent to fix the scalability issues for good, i bet many BTC holder will donate, i will personally donate if all that criteria are met, so there would be no more free work issue, but where can we see that kind of organization ?

Or how about do something simpler but more useful such as encourage people or services to adopt and use SegWit

[vtrx]

As fees are high right now and have been this way for quite some time now, it seems like Bitcoin is becoming very expensive to use for everyday stuff.
My worry is that it will stay this way at least until Bitcoin Core starts fully supporting segwit, which is supposed to be in May in version 0.16, if I am not mistaken?
I want to hear serious objective opinions on this situation, without any finger pointing.

Primarily the issue I am seeing is that very dedicated users who tried to build Bitcoin into a widespread standard currency used in everyday life are now perhaps dependent to some extent on Bitcoin being used for such purposes., as some are selling their products for Bitcoin so they can increase the adoption.
Also some might be buying certain products in Bitcoin exclusively, but they are likely to be able to switch more easily, unlike merchants.

I do like Lightning Network and segwit as solutions for the scaling problem, but it seems to be taking some time and that is probably hurting our most dedicated users. Perhaps having a quick solution that is simple to implement is not that bad. May is still 4 months away and it is always possible for deadlines to increase.

Are you using segwit already? I'm not trying to be passive aggressive or anything, a genuine question...
You can already create a segwit address with the latest versions of Electrum and I'd suggest you do so if you want to pay lower fees.

Change starts with yourself

I am personally using it for 2 months already, the fee is usually $10 for amounts $1-$4,500 (haven't sent more), and I am always getting 3 confirmations within 15-40 minutes (the first confirmation is usually not later than 10 minutes), so Segwit is a GREAT solution, if all of us migrate to segwit wallets, btc transactions would become quick and cheap again! Though $10 minimum fee is sure not for micropayments, but it is a very nice fee for payments over $1,000.

[aleksej996]

Segwit is only a short term scaling solution and a long term malleability fix. It also allows for certain functions of the Lightning Network, as two-way channels.
Lightning Network is the real long term scaling solution here.

[cry4crypto]

Segwit is only a short term scaling solution and a long term malleability fix. It also allows for certain functions of the Lightning Network, as two-way channels.
Lightning Network is the real long term scaling solution here.

Respectfully, I disagree that LN is the long term scaling solution, but along with mass adoption of SegWit it can help us survive until we find one. I will personally never use LN for a number of reasons, but primarily because it's inconvenient (both parties have to be online for the duration of the transaction) and what's a much bigger issue to me - it requires you to store your private keys on an a device connected to the internet, which is a big no no for security reasons. It's also centralized, which is another factor in play.

I recommend reading this article: https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/mathematical-proof-that-the-lightning-network-cannot-be-a-decentralized-bitcoin-scaling-solution-1b8147650800

This guy makes some excellent points.

I'm sure LN will find its use cases, but it's not the answer. I believe we can do much better than that, it will just take time.

[Testing Crypto]

May is around the corner so I don't think the release date is a problem. Four months will fly by and we'll finally have a fix.

However, I do agree with you on the fact that this took SO FUCKING LONG TO FIX! what the hell is wrong with these developer guys is all I can think. Here we have this great new technology that everyone in the world wants in on and the primary currency in this whole new revolution has been broken for way too long. WTF is all I can say and just shake my head, turn around and walk away. un fucking believable.   

The Real World thinking about all the developers is why the world is not free, people can't live being the prey & or unable to continue to build a beautiful world in so many eyes not actually stamping the work