mtGox SEPA Transfers again

[Herodes]

So people, how's it going with mtGox SEPA transfers (ie. EURO transfers).

Are you getting your money on time? When I say on time I asume what's stated on the mtGox
pages to be correct: 3 business days.

I did a withdrawal request monday this week, it has yet not arrived. There's been 4 complete
business days after this day.

I am not impatient (even if this post might speak to the opposite), but I am wonder, how long
does it take for the rest of you these days?

I think several things should be done by mtGox:

1. Keep more information about withdrawal requests available for customers, we want to know
what's happening, and what's the status of our withdrawals.

2. I think we should push for mtGox to provide proof that they actually hold all client money,
how do we know that they haven't borrowed from deposited money? I am not saying this is what
they are doing, but how would we know if they did, and how would we know if all the slow
withdrawals are because money deposited from new customers are used to pay old customers
because there's not enough money in the system?

3. Ask support crew to prioritize and deal with request concerning deposits and withdrawals
in a very serious manner. As it is now, it seems like the focus is more on just replying to support
tickets quickly, rather that solving them properly. The tickets could clearly be prioritized, and
those regarding funds should be sent to a person dealing with this and put on high priority.

At the moment we have no idea how funds are processed. Are they batch processed? Manually,
automatically? What's the limit of transfers the french bank of mtGox can do pr. day and pr.
month? Is it Mark Karpeles handling all the withdrawal requests himself?

Basically, the information provided for the customers are not good all the time, this will have
to be improved, as I see there are several other exchanges waiting to pick up the customers.

People say we need to be patient, and mtGox clearly states that payouts should take 3 business
days. Yet, there are several cases of payouts taking a lot longer. We understand there are other
things to focus on, but for the customers, payouts are what they are interested in. Most businesses
hire people to do financial work. mtGox is not special in that regards. A person should be hired to
handle all transactions. All big companies hire people to handle transactions. I understand there's
always the trust issue, but if you don't trust people, how on earth can anyone run a company? As
a business grows, tasks needs to be delegated.

And what about Merchants. A small or medium sized merchant have to wait a week or two to wait
for their funds to arrive? That's not a good sell when we try to get a business to accept bitcoins.

Merchant: Allright, bitcoin sounds exciting, and so how do I get my money converted to national currency
so I can pay my employees and distributors?
Bitcoin fan: You can sell the bitcoins at the going rate at say exchange mtGox.
Merchant: Great, and how long time does it take before I have the money in out company bank account?
Bitcoin fan: Well, err... the thing is that the people at mtGox does not really prioritize withdrawals,
the amount of time it takes to get the money deposited to your bank account can take anything from a couple
of days to a month and more, and you need to pay attention, because if you don't you may never get it
because it's been 'rejected' at the bank of mtGox's side. So if you haven't gotten them in a week, you may
have to file a support ticket. And we have no proof that mtGox hold the complete amount of client funds
deposited, and it's unregulated too, so really the Merchant have zero protection.
Merchant:!!

See.. Not an easy sell!

I've been with mtGox for a long time. But they really need to fix this, or else trust will erode. Having
a reputable accountant firm checking their records to ensure that they infact hold all client funds that
are deposited I am sure would instill more confidence among the account holders.

It's not a small exchange anymore, they need to adapt, or if they don't they'll slowly lose business.


In the end, I would ask, is there any other good alternatives to mtGox for european investors?

Any europeans used tradhill or bitcoin7 for withdrawals? What about britcoin.co.uk and bitomat (polish exchange)?

[Jack of Diamonds]

I only withdraw via wire transfer from Mt. Gox, never used other methods.
My longest transfer so far has taken 10 business days, and the shortest one 1 business day.

Received 2 transfers yesterday (Friday) that were initiated on Monday.

Considering people on other topics report getting their money at the exactly same time always, it's 100% certain they are sending them out in batches
(i.e. they have a certain time of the day when they send out their max. amount of allowed transfers by the bank)

The money can come from Sumimoto Mitsui Banking Corporation or Macaraja SAS but I only got money from Macaraja which is prob. slower.

[Herodes]

Jack: Thanks for the reply. I will hassle them unless funds haven't arrived the coming wednesday.

I think it would help greatly if they added another column to the account history named
"withdrawals" and "deposits". It could also be calculated your total profit. I will file
them a ticket and suggest that.

On withdrawals, they could have those updated to 'sent to bank' or something like that when they're
actually processed.

[elements]

I love bitmarket.eu!

Buying bitcoins:

You just enter how much you wanna buy and which transaction method you are willing to use:

- national bank wire
- SEPA bank wire
- international bank wire
- PayPal
-Moneybookers

If there is a counterparty for your offer it will be filled immediately otherwise it gets in the orderbook. You'll be notified via email when the order has been filled (with instructions where to send the money).

Selling bitcoins:

You transfer bitcoins to your account (you can always send them back to your wallet).
You create a sell offer - then the amount of btc which you are willing to sell get "frozen" and your offer gets into the order book. As soon as someone bought your bitcoins you'll get an email. The counterparty will also get an email where to send the money (i. e. your bank account / paypal). When the money arrives, you confirm in your account that you have received the money and the coins get transferred into the counterparty's account.

So far I did

4 purchases and 11 sells - all went through very fast.

And there are no fees (you can donate but you don't have to).


Enjoy

[Herodes]

I love bitmarket.eu!

Hey, I might just as well check that out. I just went to that site, but I see no link to register? Do I need an invite? And if so, could anyone provide it for me?

[elements]

I love bitmarket.eu!

Hey, I might just as well check that out. I just went to that site, but I see no link to register? Do I need an invite? And if so, could anyone provide it for me?

Just click on "REGISTER"

[Seraphim401]

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=27195.0

[Serge]

I would assume dealing with different regions they have banking in different regions. With such, funds can accumulate in one region and dry up in another region, and it would require to move portion/s of funds to be able to cover withdrawals where it may be in greater demand than existing balance.  This of course is just an assumption.  But I agree with you, customer at the very least needs to be aware when to expect to receive their money.

[Phoenix]

I made a wire transfer in Euros around 12:00 GMT on Wednesday. I saw the email from them this morning (hadn't checked for the last 16 hours or so) and the funds where accessible immediately, no problems there. Both transfers I have made (one before the crash and this one) appeared on time.

[Ekaros]

They should get account in some European bank inside SEPA. It shouldn't be an imposible solution and fees might go down... I pass mtGox untill they get SEPA transfers to max 3. banking days.

[Jack of Diamonds]

They should get account in some European bank inside SEPA. It shouldn't be an imposible solution and fees might go down... I pass mtGox untill they get SEPA transfers to max 3. banking days.

They have one in France.

[MiningBuddy]

They should get account in some European bank inside SEPA. It shouldn't be an imposible solution and fees might go down... I pass mtGox untill they get SEPA transfers to max 3. banking days.

They have an account in France.

[Ekaros]

So they can't handle one of the core-areas of their bussiness? I think I choose some other service provider for myself.

BTW, next year it will be worse if next day transfers I have heard is true...

[milk]

My guess - they speculate with the deposits. Thats why they dont send bigger withdrawls out right away, because they cant 

At first i too believed in the "others banks faults theory", but isnt it strange that small cashouts dont get stuck too ?

Anyway, the lottery wether its 1 day or 2 weeks should stop.

This is the good business practice you can expect from normal banks with
their "go away u f** customer and on your way out go f** yourself" attitude.

Gox, you are the MAIN trading place here. Do you really want to split your profits with
other trading places just because they can do reliable cashouts ?

[zby]

I also made a SEPA withdrawal on Monday and as of Saturday they did not arrive.  I made another one on Tuesday and yet another on Wednesday - neither arrived yet.  I am not yet very nervous because in the other way it was also taking a week to transfer.

[RogerR]

You guys have to bear in mind that it may take a while for MtGox themself to transfer money from their different FX-accounts to pay you out in EUR/USD/AUD/YEN/whatever without having to charge you even more.

Personally, I find their 2% rule fairly expensive already - especially if you got more than 200BTC to sell (having to pay 200+€ for a 10000+€ transfer is just nuts).

I hope they figure out a way to cut down on those costs... or else I have to move someplace else for my €-withdraws.

[NetTecture]

They have an account in France, besides, SEPA only works WITHIN the EU so why you would assume mtgox doesn't have an EU bank account is beyond me.

Factually wrong. It works within the European Economic Area, not only within the EU.

Difference?

Like norway. I get a SEPA payment every week from a norwegian customer, and Norway is not within the EU.

Get your facts straight.

[dikidera]

I did two, sum didn't matter, the first one (smaller sum) came in 5 days, the second one(a tad bit bigger) came in 4/4,5 days

[Herodes]

Funds arrived today.

Seems like someone is taking their cut though. I calculated that the amount I withdrew have been shaved with approx 5.5%, this might not be 100% accurate as there are several currency exchange rates to take into considereation here.

Namely these conversions:

USD to EUR
EUR to NOK

If we say that mtGox takes 2%, then we have 3.5% left unaccounted for. I suspect these are the fees that the banks have taken when converting currency. I do not know if mtGox charge anything for converting currency.

As i Understand it, european customers deposit money with the french bank account of mtGox, and is held there, unless there's a misbalance between mtGox bank accounts and funds needs to be moved.

If anyone would transfer say 10K USD, they'd have to pay approx. 500USD in fees if this model is to be accurate.

Account statement at mtGox could be more clear, as it's hard to see what fee is actually deducted from the transfer from the account statement.


Well, at least the money has arrived, although I think the fees are a bit steep.  It took approx 5 business days for them to arrive, which is better than previous transfers that was larger.

[error]

If we say that mtGox takes 2%, then we have 3.5% left unaccounted for. I suspect these are the fees that the banks have taken when converting currency. I do not know if mtGox charge anything for converting currency.

That sounds typical for a currency exchange done by a bank. Why do you think the rest of us are working to make Bitcoin succeed?