New Cloud Mining Operation- Need Insight

[AgronA]

(If there is a better location to place this thread, please let me know or move it. I would have loved if I found a "mining operations" thread category somewhere.)

Hello everyone,

I first want to give a little insight on myself and past. In 2008-2009 I mined a little over 500 bitcoin on my regular really bulky computer and AOL as my internet probider. I have always read threads in this forum  a little afterwards and in others but never really felt a need or wanting to contribute in some semse. Seeing the growth that i do see and the vision I have in mind of being put into creation....I am 26 years old now and that was when I was really young and not thinking clearly to continued to have mined more than my fair share.

Flash forward, I own 2 different large scale call centers in different locations in europe and are expanding on a daily basis. Literally hiring more employees daily as we can't keep up with client demand. In a business sense, I have the dots on the i's and t's crossed.

I have followed Bitcoin for years and Ethereum since July 2017, have made money and have also had pitfalls. But after some further digging and testing with cloud mining sutes, I find that losing soo much money to scam operations or the like of scam exchange networks, somethings gotta give. There really is NO authority on cryptocurrencies which is GREAT but there is a downside, where it is ripe for people to manipulate the existent and unbeknown system to the masses.

I have lost tens if thousands of dollars on things related bitcoin...my friends have lost money and many others in the world even lose their lofe savings with fake wallets, or ledger hardware wallets. I think I have a duty to try and help everyone in this life and in the hereafter whether you believe in that or not. I need a base and foundation however for what I have in mind of bringing into light. An organization that can perhaps see it has a monetary/thriving incentive to help those in loss.

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The thread title says it all. And once done with this thread, I will reveal the website/operations name and details, so we know that that operation is owned by myself and run by myself-built with ideas in mind from the community here.

It all starts with reputable mining operations that the average man can get into. How can a currency be for the people and to free them from monetary control if they the people cannot obtain it easily? Or lack the confidence to obtain it through certain means?

I have operations in place to obtain the proper funding of a startup organization to mine Bitcoin or Ethereum.
What I lack upon start is a model that can be free from scams. Why do operations turn to become scams and things to stay awaybfrom? Because the profits that used to be inherently existent became too thin for the Cloud Mining Operation to maintain operations?

So, I ask the cummunity, what are your insights, what is needed in order to keep the word scam away and far from the operations I want to start? Some thoughts/ideas of my own are-

1. Do not sell hashes, at a certain price point.
Difficulty goes up, equipment breaks, electricity spikes, costs change and are never constant. How can any legitimate organization offer you a price point to "buy in" where if you did the math of having it on your own, with optimized equipment, you yourself would NOT be able to main that given hashrate.

Present organizations are shuffling money around, and when it gets too complicated to keep track of, that is when operations disappear/turn to scamming people.

2. So if I can't sell Hashrates in a consistent basis what could I charge in terms of price?
Then I thought to myself about renting mining rigs out to people. Where the most efficient equipment we can find is put into work, and people would rent it out.

First you may think to yourself, why rent it out when we can run it to full operation and capacity for ourselves? In honesty, this way, what can take place is us to charge a % of profits after expenses. Not on a hashrate basis, not on a per rig sale and not earn from it again, but - people would put the funds in place for the rig to be built/put into operation. Then our organization will manage it, have it work to full capacity and then even profit from it. It would be a partnership. The people- will out the capital,why the organization "transacts business with it" so that we can mine more efficiently and everyone would be in agreement/understanding of the terms in place.

I believe full transparency is key to having a thrving prosperous business relationship with people of all demographics.

For for pricing, do we think offering a % of profits would be best so as to ensure both the cloud mining operation and the investor/people who buy in prosper from the relationship?

What ideas do we have in store for this present issue? Its all $ of course. No one would be doing it, of it wasn't about the money. But I see no reason why everyone can't partake in it.

Should there be a 1/2/3 year contract on the rig? Should it be setup, so that after a % ROI the contract term is over, but will never end, until that ROI is met? Things to be perpetually existent is not* possible, especially in the case of GENESIS MINING/HASHFLARE "life-time" contracts OR WHATEVER THE HELL they want to label it.

How irrational can someone be to think they will earn forever, when it comes to making money off of things that only last so long?


-Please do input your insights on the matter, as to talking point 1: Pricing, that will lead to both investors and the organization to be in mutual agreement?

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Note: everything stated in regards to this talking point is going to be noted down, and there will be a vote cast, where members will be able to steer where the operation should go in terms of pricing.

Nothing in this world is free, not even the air your breath.

Thanks for allowing this first talking point.

Lets discuss away.
As there is another talking to come.

Thank you again for your time & help.
From Agron A.

If you need to reach me, feel free to private message me here. If afterwards, it doesn't seem to be some spam etc etc, I can give you my phone number so we can bounce ideas off of each other from etc,.


To haters: This is a business I am in the process of building. I see that there is a need in the market for a irrefutable cloud mining operation to exist. And I want to offer it while being realistic with what is taking place/can take place.

I would appreciate constructive criticism, or ideas and discussions. Very mature individual here, and I definitely want to help the cryptocurrency industry. Starting with an operation is just the beginning.

I see that cryptocurrencies lack* something Fiat have because of the governments existent. We can put that such "use" in place, but it doesn't exist in software/code form yet. I have found that without such thing taking place- (that can easily be made to take place) cryptocurrencies will have a definite hard time truly replacing fiat currencies.

I am wholly dedicated to this operation, and to the operations to come into place. But all things one step at a time. I am in no way affiliated with any present large-scale investors in the cryptocurrency markets.

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[Cyndre]

I litterly just talked about this with someone in irc tonight.  One of the features of my app ( https://www.facebook.com/cpaytoday/ http://www.cpay.today/ ) is a mining feature.  I plan to sell mining services to my end users for $x a month.  What they get in return is a % share of all coins mined for that month.  I was planning on using cloud computers and focusing on new coins, like hedging your bet against not missing the next bitcoin - have a bunch of different coins.

If your interested in that aspect of my app, or my entire app, I am currently seeking a pre launch/pre ico investor.  Message me back here, or email me at instapaycrypto@gmail.com

Thanks

[AgronA]

I litterly just talked about this with someone in irc tonight.  One of the features of my app ( https://www.facebook.com/cpaytoday/ http://www.cpay.today/ ) is a mining feature.  I plan to sell mining services to my end users for $x a month.  What they get in return is a % share of all coins mined for that month.  I was planning on using cloud computers and focusing on new coins, like hedging your bet against not missing the next bitcoin - have a bunch of different coins.

If your interested in that aspect of my app, or my entire app, I am currently seeking a pre launch/pre ico investor.  Message me back here, or email me at instapaycrypto@gmail.com

Thanks

Sounds interesting as a side thing to consider. I presently have a lot of my own personal money in this project and would not change its prese t trojection towards something different. Though the idea of mining a number of differe t coins at once would be interesting, but cannot diverge into other projects whereas I have a lot of bodies on the ground for what I have in place presently.

Aside from that, for some reason nothing shows up on my iPhone safari app. Mayne when I get back to the office I can take a look.

With that noted, any insight questions or ideas with what I put in place presently?

Thanks again for your time.

[buwaytress]

Cloud mining as an industry is a curious one to me - externally, they are some of the most reputable establishments. They have influence in the media, they are seen as early enterprising successes by businesses, and they have played a role in helping securing the Bitcoin network in all these years. But internally, they suffer from a long track record of unhappy customers. Perhaps unfairly, as those unhappy tend to be the loudest and those in profit choose not to speak but in general, they could improve on a lot of things to improve their standing. This forum, in my observation, has many who agree cloud mining is unprofitable. Personally, I think they are a borderline rip off, targeting newcomers unfamiliar with mining.

In any case, you're on the right track if you're thinking to remodel. There are at least two huge projects (Hydrominer and Gigahash) that are trying to do something similar - managed mining (but in my opinion is just a more accurate way of saying cloud mining. They tackle two points you yourself bring up:

1. Selling electricity instead of hashpower. Electricity is more predictable especially if used up in shorter periods, rather than the typical annual or lifetime contracts sold by cloudmining companies. You buy X amount to run a rig for X time - and quickly you see profit or loss.
2. Improving transparency - absolutely! The most misleading thing outside of vague contract terms is the profit calculator. If you could provide transparent operation costs - electricity consumption and price per unit, blocks found, fees earned, Bitcoin liquidated, rental, maintenance costs. Why not? I would then say that if people bought "shares" of the cost, they then share in the profit/loss. No need for fixed formulas of costs earnings that probably aren't true anyway.

[AgronA]

Cloud mining as an industry is a curious one to me - externally, they are some of the most reputable establishments. They have influence in the media, they are seen as early enterprising successes by businesses, and they have played a role in helping securing the Bitcoin network in all these years. But internally, they suffer from a long track record of unhappy customers. Perhaps unfairly, as those unhappy tend to be the loudest and those in profit choose not to speak but in general, they could improve on a lot of things to improve their standing. This forum, in my observation, has many who agree cloud mining is unprofitable. Personally, I think they are a borderline rip off, targeting newcomers unfamiliar with mining.

In any case, you're on the right track if you're thinking to remodel. There are at least two huge projects (Hydrominer and Gigahash) that are trying to do something similar - managed mining (but in my opinion is just a more accurate way of saying cloud mining. They tackle two points you yourself bring up:

1. Selling electricity instead of hashpower. Electricity is more predictable especially if used up in shorter periods, rather than the typical annual or lifetime contracts sold by cloudmining companies. You buy X amount to run a rig for X time - and quickly you see profit or loss.
2. Improving transparency - absolutely! The most misleading thing outside of vague contract terms is the profit calculator. If you could provide transparent operation costs - electricity consumption and price per unit, blocks found, fees earned, Bitcoin liquidated, rental, maintenance costs. Why not? I would then say that if people bought "shares" of the cost, they then share in the profit/loss. No need for fixed formulas of costs earnings that probably aren't true anyway.

I don't see entirely why the cloud mining industry gets a "bad rep" when it comes to the customers. If cloud mining is profitable for people individually, there isn't a reason it wouldn't be profitable for both the cloud mining organization and the customer. But what it comes down to is greed, on the end of the cloud mining operation. There isn't a reason ANYONE cloud mining should not at least* get their money back in the near future. I mean lets face it, we all now 2 currencies can be mined and by mining Decred while mining Ethereum is more profitable than just mining full Ethereum. While the cloud mining operation "only" mines the Ether or Bitcoin, they are making a killing off the 2nd coin that they don't have to share the gains with anyone from.

I looked into Gigahash, their site doesn't work and already has scam reports. While Hydrominer is flat out a lie?...with the first few things I read on it. Based in Croatia, their electricity power is already at the rate it would be if it were Hydropower in the USA, Sweden or UK was being used. The ICO is more or less a way for the founders to just make more $ off of it, in the "sense of building/harnessing hydropower." These are just my mere findings.


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So what I noticed in these last 2 days... people want reputable cloud mining operations- BUT no one wants to define what that is, in their viewpoint? Interesting.

Come on everyone, what is it that would lead to a "legitimate" mining operation in your eyes? I don't ask just because I feel like it, I ask because answers/findings will be used in the organizations development.

Thanks again!

[charlie137]

open source is free. the whole community of unix users started back in the days based on free open source software. rest is scam by hystorical definition. you not gonna be able to compete if you not going to play by rules. and rules around the market are dirty. thanks to human nature.

[pinkflower]

To haters: This is a business I am in the process of building. I see that there is a need in the market for a irrefutable cloud mining operation to exist. And I want to offer it while being realistic with what is taking place/can take place.

I would appreciate constructive criticism, or ideas and discussions. Very mature individual here, and I definitely want to help the cryptocurrency industry. Starting with an operation is just the beginning.

I see that cryptocurrencies lack* something Fiat have because of the governments existent. We can put that such "use" in place, but it doesn't exist in software/code form yet. I have found that without such thing taking place- (that can easily be made to take place) cryptocurrencies will have a definite hard time truly replacing fiat currencies.

I am wholly dedicated to this operation, and to the operations to come into place. But all things one step at a time. I am in no way affiliated with any present large-scale investors in the cryptocurrency markets.

Be honest and truthful to yourself. Cryptocurency mining is already a risk by itself because of the constant rise in difficulty. I you cant mine more efficiently than your competitors then you have already lost.

In cloudmining, we know the buyer of the contract is the hedge to that risk. Meaning, whatever risk you are taking in your mining operation, you are passing it along to others.

Having that said, be also honest to your potential customers that there is a high percentage that they will not earn any good amount in cloudmining.

[buwaytress]

I don't see entirely why the cloud mining industry gets a "bad rep" when it comes to the customers. If cloud mining is profitable for people individually, there isn't a reason it wouldn't be profitable for both the cloud mining organization and the customer. But what it comes down to is greed, on the end of the cloud mining operation. There isn't a reason ANYONE cloud mining should not at least* get their money back in the near future. I mean lets face it, we all now 2 currencies can be mined and by mining Decred while mining Ethereum is more profitable than just mining full Ethereum. While the cloud mining operation "only" mines the Ether or Bitcoin, they are making a killing off the 2nd coin that they don't have to share the gains with anyone from.

I looked into Gigahash, their site doesn't work and already has scam reports. While Hydrominer is flat out a lie?...with the first few things I read on it. Based in Croatia, their electricity power is already at the rate it would be if it were Hydropower in the USA, Sweden or UK was being used. The ICO is more or less a way for the founders to just make more $ off of it, in the "sense of building/harnessing hydropower." These are just my mere findings.


----------------
So what I noticed in these last 2 days... people want reputable cloud mining operations- BUT no one wants to define what that is, in their viewpoint? Interesting.

Come on everyone, what is it that would lead to a "legitimate" mining operation in your eyes? I don't ask just because I feel like it, I ask because answers/findings will be used in the organizations development.

Thanks again!

They get their bad rep because they aren't transparent, and because their terms and conditions are vague at best, misleading at worst. Anyone reading the terms for the first time, especially if they aren't familiar with how quickly "maintenance" fees suddenly eat up and end contracts, will get caught out. You're absolutely right - cloud mining should be profitable - miners, don't share whatever it is they're co-mining, nor do they share out the fees they earn from blocks.

Gigahash and HydroMiner like any ICO have their scam reports, and by no means am I advocating them - they merely show the way forward, like I said, firstly by selling power and not hashrate. Hydrominer is based in Austria, so not sure what you're reading... again, I have never supported either but their steps are a huge move from current cloudmining operations. Something someone like you might learn from.

[carlfebz2]

Best thing you can offer is transparency on hashing power real time.

When investors have a dashboard and can see and calculate alongside the operator then the mistrust levels are taken down substantially.

The other factor you need to be clear on is the fees. Cloud Mining is replete with fees being taken on every thing.

A flat fee for everything would go along way.

Flat fee wont happen knowing that maintenance cost do suddenly changes overtime depending on how much they do spend on maintaining stuff. This is why I don't really bother on investing because of not being profitable unless if you are the ones who do operates or own that mining farm together with low electricity rate into the place. Dashboard wont happen because I haven't seen about this kind of transparency after all these years.

[AgronA]

Best thing you can offer is transparency on hashing power real time.

When investors have a dashboard and can see and calculate alongside the operator then the mistrust levels are taken down substantially.

The other factor you need to be clear on is the fees. Cloud Mining is replete with fees being taken on every thing.

A flat fee for everything would go along way.

Transparency is something I definitely think would help in all aspects. My organization would have no issue being transparent about everything, as long as the terms/% profit ratios are disclosed and agreed upon from the beginning.

This is something I have been trying to figure out to offer to the clients, especially to some larger ones that I have other business relationships with. But no "plug and play" solution has been found yet.