How will Lightning Network be encouraged to use?

[maxxdxx]

Lightning Network has been in development for a long time and it's currently running on the testnet and mainnet (both are not 100% perfect yet). More time is needed to fix bugs and make nice clients.

[1714976487]

1714976487

[Anti-Cen]

I think the bigger problem is the lack of software, rather than the funds of the big players.
Big players don't really need cheap transaction - it's the small players that need them.

The problem is that everyone who's been involved with bitcoin long enough, today has enough dosh to not needing to work anymore.
So whoever is going to make this Lightning Network software, likely needs to learn first.

Yes agree

Why would you pay $20 for a transaction, if you can pay much less for it?

Agree if your talking about using another type of alt-coin and you have much respect from me
but Lightning does not reduce fees much for normal use even if we get wallets that can use it
in say six months time and wait longer for Exodus or Jaxx to adopt it.

Bob does not want to buy a coffee a day from Alice for the next month but wants whats
been selling using BTC from day one, some skunk weed this month and Alice does not want
to hang around doing too many transactions in case the old bill come knocking

Please add hubs/banks into the process because we have already had the arguments about
BTC is only good for sending amounts over $1000 across the wire and now it's going to be
LN is good if you pretend that you don't use real fiat cash when out shopping and everyone
takes Bitcoins and are all connected to major hubs/banks

[Anti-Cen]

Lightning Network has been in development for a long time and it's currently running on the testnet and mainnet (both are not 100% perfect yet). More time is needed to fix bugs and make nice clients.

But Bitcoin had nine years to be perfected and they knew from day one that it would not scale so yes
lets give them more time if they say they need it but for our continued loyal support all they need to do
is add one line of code into Bitcoin core if they somehow forgot to add it before

public static money MaxFee =1.50 // 20,000 miners not needed when 1,000 is more than enough

Yes if market forces and not just a scam can fees up due a badly designed system that is slow then lets see market forces
removing most miners because we don't have that much cream on the cake to share around and CPU-Wars
between more and more miners is only keeping Intel, AMD and big oil rich so work that in to getting one
up on the bankers

[figmentofmyass]

How may it be rapidly established?

Things seem to mover very slowly, look at segwit adoption.

Some kind of incentives at the start?

this is the first obvious answer:

Why would you pay $20 for a transaction, if you can pay much less for it?

anyone who uses BTC all the time has been feeling the pain of rising fees. for many people, that's reason enough to have adopted segwit already even though it's not in the core gui yet. lightning can lower fees much more than segwit, so i would expect adoption to be faster too.

past that, there are literally fee incentives built into the system. people sending LN transactions need to pay for routing hops. the nodes that provide those hops compete for fees. of course, these fees will be astronomically cheaper than on-chain fees. but for the first time, ordinary nodes will be compensated merely for propagating transactions.

[pq3eq]

When DEVs plan integrate it?

[figmentofmyass]

When DEVs plan integrate it?

there is no ETA. lightning developers have taken the position that there is "no rush" considering how much value is expected to be stored in payment channels. they are very concerned about ensuring that no funds are lost as a result of using the LN protocol.

having said that, it's pretty widely expected that LN will be usable by the general public sometime this year, likely in a matter of months. the next major step is to complete wallet implementations. we're already seeing lightning transactions on the network; now it's mainly just a matter of releasing the software.

[Valle]

I wonder how a Lightning user interface would look like. Instead a "Send" button there will be "Open channel" button (same fee as just Send button + X bitcoins to deposit into channel) and then "Send via the opened channel" (no fee) and then "Close channel" (same fee as just Send button). Given this complexity and the fact that you have to spend twice as much in fees to send same amount of money as without LN I really wonder how the "greed" would work.

If you say you need big aggregators like Coinbase... Well, why would a user choose the aggregator instead using um... Zelle for example? Maybe only for transnational payments.

[achow101]

there is no ETA. lightning developers have taken the position that there is "no rush" considering how much value is expected to be stored in payment channels. they are very concerned about ensuring that no funds are lost as a result of using the LN protocol.

having said that, it's pretty widely expected that LN will be usable by the general public sometime this year, likely in a matter of months. the next major step is to complete wallet implementations. we're already seeing lightning transactions on the network; now it's mainly just a matter of releasing the software.

It's not like there's an actual "official LN launch" date or anything like that. Rather LN will be "launched" when people feel confident enough in one or more implementations of LN to use it on the main Bitcoin network. In fact, you could consider LN to already be launched as there already are people using LN on the mainnet. Of course those people do so at the risk of their money, but nonetheless, the software mostly works and there are transactions occurring.

I wonder how a Lightning user interface would look like. Instead a "Send" button there will be "Open channel" button (same fee as just Send button + X bitcoins to deposit into channel) and then "Send via the opened channel" (no fee) and then "Close channel" (same fee as just Send button). Given this complexity and the fact that you have to spend twice as much in fees to send same amount of money as without LN I really wonder how the "greed" would work.

It's very likely that it will still just be a "Send" button. Channel management and all that will actually be handled by the software automatically. You put money into your LN wallet, and it will use that to open and close channels automatically. So when you want to send Bitcoin to someone, your LN wallet will have established several channels. It will also determine an optimal route and do everything automatically for you. There's no need for you to manually open and close channels yourself; the software will handle all of that for you.

[amishmanish]

The problem is that everyone who's been involved with bitcoin long enough, today has enough dosh to not needing to work anymore.
So whoever is going to make this Lightning Network software, likely needs to learn first.

The people who were involved from the start are now the patrons probably. The baton has been already passed down as different teams were working on the Lightning Network. This is also a good thing probably because now new developers can start afresh and take control of the project. We probably need another few Satoshi Nakamotos, if he was only an individual.

Also, The Lightning Network software is more or less made already. Its on testnet and main-net. There's even the "Eclair Wallet Testnet" on play store.

[amishmanish]

Check out some of the testnet lightning wallets and applications for a first glimpse:

1) HTLC.me web wallet ( https://htlc.me/ )
2) Eclair testnet android wallet ( Google Play Store )
3) Lightning Desktop App ( https://github.com/lightninglabs/lightning-app/releases )
4) yalls.org for spending testnet microtransactions ( https://yalls.org/ )

It's still rough around the edges though.

Is there some kind of guide for the eclair testnet wallet? I downloaded it on my phone but have no idea what exactly am i supposed to do with this. Do I get testnet currency from some faucet?

[Carlton Banks]

there is no ETA. lightning developers have taken the position that there is "no rush" considering how much value is expected to be stored in payment channels. they are very concerned about ensuring that no funds are lost as a result of using the LN protocol.

having said that, it's pretty widely expected that LN will be usable by the general public sometime this year, likely in a matter of months. the next major step is to complete wallet implementations. we're already seeing lightning transactions on the network; now it's mainly just a matter of releasing the software.

It's not like there's an actual "official LN launch" date or anything like that. Rather LN will be "launched" when people feel confident enough in one or more implementations of LN to use it on the main Bitcoin network. In fact, you could consider LN to already be launched as there already are people using LN on the mainnet. Of course those people do so at the risk of their money, but nonetheless, the software mostly works and there are transactions occurring.

Could this be the reason there's been an increase in the rate of larger than average kB transactions recently? With ~195 MB of transactions confirmed in the past 24 hours across ~325,000 transactions, that puts the average transaction size at 600 kB (much larger than the 225 kB of a typical transaction).

[HeRetiK]

It's very likely that it will still just be a "Send" button. Channel management and all that will actually be handled by the software automatically. You put money into your LN wallet, and it will use that to open and close channels automatically. So when you want to send Bitcoin to someone, your LN wallet will have established several channels. It will also determine an optimal route and do everything automatically for you. There's no need for you to manually open and close channels yourself; the software will handle all of that for you.

That seems to be the approach that HTLC.me is following. It's fine with testnet coins, but I'm still not sure how to feel about mainnet on-chain transactions taking place without user interaction. I guess in the end people will have multiple implementations to choose from, depending on how much convenience vs control they want.

Check out some of the testnet lightning wallets and applications for a first glimpse:

1) HTLC.me web wallet ( https://htlc.me/ )
2) Eclair testnet android wallet ( Google Play Store )
3) Lightning Desktop App ( https://github.com/lightninglabs/lightning-app/releases )
4) yalls.org for spending testnet microtransactions ( https://yalls.org/ )

It's still rough around the edges though.

Is there some kind of guide for the eclair testnet wallet? I downloaded it on my phone but have no idea what exactly am i supposed to do with this. Do I get testnet currency from some faucet?

Yep, just get testnet bitcoins from one of the faucets. Here for example:

https://testnet.manu.backend.hamburg/faucet

In Eclair swipe to the leftmost screen for your testnet address (starts with 2...) and once you got some coins swipe to the rightmost screen and open a new channel by tapping on the big green plus button. Autoconnect should suffice for the first try.

Once the connection is confirmed (ie. the channel state says "normal") you can send lightning transactions from the main screen by scanning payment requests -- eg. on yalls.org or by creating a payment request for yourself on the HTLC.me web wallet.

[Samarkand]

...

My biggest hope in regards to kickstarting LN adoption is currently merchants and the likes of BitPay. BitPay has nothing to gain from people buying Bitcoin unless they actually use them. So in this case the incentives should be aligned in LN's favor.

BitPay has the problem that their complete business model becomes unfeasible
if Bitcoin is used mainly as a store of value. Therefore their incentives might also
differ completely from the incentives of people, who hold Bitcoin as a long-term
investment.

I think it is quite unfortunate that many of the biggest businesses in the Bitcoin ecosystem
(Coinbase/GDax and BitPay) are stalling things that would improve the Bitcoin user
experience for everyone.

[fabiANI]

Why pay more, if you can pay less?

[figmentofmyass]

there is no ETA. lightning developers have taken the position that there is "no rush" considering how much value is expected to be stored in payment channels. they are very concerned about ensuring that no funds are lost as a result of using the LN protocol.

having said that, it's pretty widely expected that LN will be usable by the general public sometime this year, likely in a matter of months. the next major step is to complete wallet implementations. we're already seeing lightning transactions on the network; now it's mainly just a matter of releasing the software.

It's not like there's an actual "official LN launch" date or anything like that. Rather LN will be "launched" when people feel confident enough in one or more implementations of LN to use it on the main Bitcoin network. In fact, you could consider LN to already be launched as there already are people using LN on the mainnet. Of course those people do so at the risk of their money, but nonetheless, the software mostly works and there are transactions occurring.

yeah, i get that. which is why i say "usable by the general public." you could say that LN was "launched" once the various developer teams agreed on network specification or once the first mainnet transaction was made based on that, but those aren't useful metrics. lightning developers are still losing money in channels at this point, so far less sophisticated users (and certainly the general public) shouldn't be encouraged to use LN right now. they should wait for production wallets.

i don't entirely disagree with cobra here:

The way @Blockstream is promoting LN use on mainnet is very irresponsible. People will lose money and LN reputation will be damaged.

[gold1112]

If Lightning Network will appear in btc. Then who will add it to btc blockchain? Does btc has own dev team? Please explain me if you can 

[HeRetiK]

If Lightning Network will appear in btc. Then who will add it to btc blockchain? Does btc has own dev team? Please explain me if you can 

Lightning Network has different dev teams working on it than Bitcoin itself. Some developers work on both. LN does not get added to the Bitcoin blockchain and it does not require a modification of the Bitcoin protocol. Rather it will require the use of new clients (ie. wallets) that know how to open Lightning channels and how to handle Lightning transactions.

Deployment is happening as we speak with the first few people running Lightning nodes on mainnet. This means LN is already live, however using it is not recommended for the average user yet as LN still needs to be thoroughly tested and improved.

[Spendulus]

there is no ETA. lightning developers have taken the position that there is "no rush" considering how much value is expected to be stored in payment channels. they are very concerned about ensuring that no funds are lost as a result of using the LN protocol.

having said that, it's pretty widely expected that LN will be usable by the general public sometime this year, likely in a matter of months. the next major step is to complete wallet implementations. we're already seeing lightning transactions on the network; now it's mainly just a matter of releasing the software.

It's not like there's an actual "official LN launch" date or anything like that. Rather LN will be "launched" when people feel confident enough....

Okay I just figured out how to launch LN in a way everyone will understand.

THE DAY A PIZZA WAS BOUGHT WITH LN!!!!!

(Echoing the famous bitcoin pizza purchase of course)

Or even better....

THE DAY 10,000 PIZZAS WERE BOUGHT WITH LN

[onnz423]

Lightning network usage will be encouraged by user demand, companies will implement the lightning network when their competition starts to do so. Similar to preferring segwit transactions right now, you see some people will not trade with a company that doesn't implement segwit, thus if they want to survive in a competition environment they will utilize every edge they can get, bringing down theirs and the customers fee.

[Kevin381]

How may it be rapidly established?

Things seem to mover very slowly, look at segwit adoption.

Some kind of incentives at the start?

Some people think that the lightning network will create 'hubs' that connect the users and collectively taking transaction fees, monitoring spending and possibly monthly fees and maybe lending possibilities...? This to me sounds like a centralised bank... and defeats the actual purpose of Bitcoin. The block size has obviously been held back... why??...perhaps the developers to make more money with this system...?

Surely XPR and Stella solve the current banking international transaction fees and times.

Personally I believe in a true peer to peer system for the people. Bitcoin did it's job to be the first through the door and awake the people to the possibility of financial decentralisation. I think unfortunately it will be killed off or chained down with the lightning network but it has paved the way. I support BCC and other crypto that share the original idea.