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Author Topic: [ANN] FirstPrincipalBank.com - Earn interest on your coins!  (Read 1345 times)
FirstPrincipalBank
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August 17, 2013, 04:05:53 PM
 #1

We at First Principal Bank recognize the limited options for fixed income investments in the bitcoin space and would like to offer an opportunity for diversification.

We offer straight forward time deposits (CD's) with maturities ranging from 1 to 365 days.

Constructive criticism is always appreciated!

Visit us at http://firstprincipalbank.com/
According to NIST and ECRYPT II, the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are expected to be strong until at least 2030. (After that, it will not be too difficult to transition to different algorithms.)
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pedrog
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August 17, 2013, 05:32:21 PM
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Why isn't this a ponzi?

Can you tell us how do you get profit from the deposited coins, and why so quickly, just one day?

If you're trading, it is very hard to have guaranteed profit, specially after just one day, even small amounts like 0.02%.

Why the new forum account?

I assume you're not new to bitcoin, never bothered to register an account?

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August 17, 2013, 06:22:46 PM
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Why isn't this a ponzi?

I can't prove to you that we're not running a ponzi-scheme. If I were to set up a ponzi-scheme I think I'd structure it differently though. We see this an opportunity to establish a reputable fixed-income source in the bitcoin economy rather early on. 

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Can you tell us how do you get profit from the deposited coins, and why so quickly, just one day?

Profits are generated by investing in bitcoin nominated securities. There are multiple securities paying out daily interest or dividends; https://btct.co/security/BTC-BOND and https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=XBOND to name two.

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If you're trading, it is very hard to have guaranteed profit, specially after just one day, even small amounts like 0.02%.

Our investment goal is to extract the "market rate" through our portfolio and adjust our rates accordingly. In the event of a loss it is covered by equity, like any other company.

Quote
Why the new forum account?

I assume you're not new to bitcoin, never bothered to register an account?

This is the official account for First Principal bank. Personally I've been involved with bitcoin since 2011 but none of us have been vocal in the community before.
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August 17, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
 #4

coinlenders offers something around 25% and is well known. why should I move my coins to you?

► How to sneak in ICO, even if you're not allowed to Read More
TradeFortress
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August 17, 2013, 06:38:55 PM
 #5

Ukyo offers 20% APR
TAT offers 20% APR
Xaviarlol offers >20% APR
DMS offers >20% APR
CoinLenders offers up to 27.25% APR.

All of them have more trust than you. Nice site through, I presume you're just acting as a PT to other offerings.
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August 18, 2013, 09:20:01 AM
 #6

coinlenders offers something around 25% and is well known. why should I move my coins to you?

If you feel comfortable with coinlenders there's no reason to move your coins anywhere. I have nothing bad to say about coinlenders. TradeFortress is well known and respected around here but even he had to start somewhere.
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August 18, 2013, 10:04:35 AM
 #7

It is a pretty site and mentioned you wanted feedback so here is my 2 cents.

- Have about us page and , people want to know users  who created it have skin in the game/ and putting themselves on the line for it, and the moment looks a little too anon.
-who are the shareholders? is this going to be listed on a exchange?

-you might want to think of the ROI you are offering given the options at there.

- A Year is a long time for people to have to tie up there bitcoin. You might want to reward people more for 6 months.

-what is the security like of the coin once transferred in.

- you could make it unique by offering it also for Litecoin option.

FirstPrincipalBank
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August 18, 2013, 10:08:02 AM
 #8

Ukyo offers 20% APR
TAT offers 20% APR
Xaviarlol offers >20% APR
DMS offers >20% APR
CoinLenders offers up to 27.25% APR.

All of them have more trust than you. Nice site through, I presume you're just acting as a PT to other offerings.

Everyone has more trust than us at the moment since we're just getting started. I'd like to point out some caveats in the figures you've provided though;

  • Ukyo.Loan pays 0.05% daily on nominally 0.01. Last traded price is 0.01075, which yields an effective market rate of 18.5% when accounting for daily re-investments
  • Similarly with XBOND, it pays 0.05% daily on 0.001 nominally. Last traded price is 0.0011 which yields 18.0%. In addition, they can only be redeemed at 95% of face value.
  • Is Xaviarlol referring to BTC-EQTY? I'm not familiar with that one but it doesn't seem to relate to fixed income.
  • Is DMS referring to Deprived Mining Speculation (DMS)? Again, I don't see how that relates to fixed income.
  • Is there a separate thread where criticism of CoinLenders have been brought up before or can be discussed?


I think this illustrates some of the pitfalls in the security markets that people may or may not take interest in.

We want to bring the highest rates of return at the lowest possible risk with reasonable assurance of principal to individuals who may not feel confident in the securities markets or otherwise just lack time or interest.
TradeFortress
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August 18, 2013, 11:03:35 AM
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Similarly with XBOND, it pays 0.05% daily on 0.001 nominally. Last traded price is 0.0011 which yields 18.0%. In addition, they can only be redeemed at 95% of face value.

They can be redeemed for future TAT investments IPOs however. The lack of ability for them to be redeemed at face value for BTC does reduce it's value somewhat.

Quote
Ukyo.Loan pays 0.05% daily on nominally 0.01. Last traded price is 0.01075, which yields an effective market rate of 18.5% when accounting for daily re-investments

Ukyo.Loan does not pay 0.05% daily - it has paid often 1.5x or 2x. The guaranteed minimum interest rate is 0.05% daily.

In fact for the past ~month Ukyo.Loan has paid out at least 1.5x the minimum interest rate.

Quote
Is Xaviarlol referring to BTC-EQTY? I'm not familiar with that one but it doesn't seem to relate to fixed income.

BTC-EQTY bonds: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260986.0

Quote
Is DMS referring to Deprived Mining Speculation (DMS)? Again, I don't see how that relates to fixed income.

Sorry, meant LTC-ATF.B1/LTC-ATF.B2. They are backed by LTC-ATF. All of their assets trade on btct.co, so there is no additional CP risk.

Quote
Is there a separate thread where criticism of CoinLenders have been brought up before or can be discussed?

The closest one is this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=275132.0 - you are free to create your own thread.

Quote
We want to bring the highest rates of return at the lowest possible risk with reasonable assurance of principal to individuals who may not feel confident in the securities markets or otherwise just lack time or interest.

What is important is the risk-adjusted return. Many investments have a risk-adjusted return in the negatives. Of course, I run a competing service, and you should perform your own due diligence.
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August 18, 2013, 12:16:35 PM
 #10

It is a pretty site and mentioned you wanted feedback so here is my 2 cents.

Thanks for your input!

Quote
- Have about us page and , people want to know users  who created it have skin in the game/ and putting themselves on the line for it, and the moment looks a little too anon.

Management wishes to remain private for the time being, until we can find a jurisdiction with regulatory clarity. Not only to protect us, but also our customers. But you're right, we should be able to put up an about page.

Quote
-who are the shareholders? is this going to be listed on a exchange?

The founders are currently the only shareholders. We might consider listing on an exchange at some later date. At the moment we have no need to raise further equity.

Quote
-you might want to think of the ROI you are offering given the options at there.

I've pointed out some caveats to the numbers TradeFortress presented. We have to rely on our own analysis when deciding rates.

Quote
- A Year is a long time for people to have to tie up there bitcoin. You might want to reward people more for 6 months.

This is your opinion. Others may welcome having interest rates guaranteed for a full year. We will probably have to adjust our rates going forward.

Quote
-what is the security like of the coin once transferred in.

Only loose change to cover immediate withdrawals are stored on our server. Most of our assets are spread out across the markets. All of our procedures, including the website, have been designed with security in mind.

Quote
- you could make it unique by offering it also for Litecoin option.

Litecoin markets are still illiquid and offer few opportunities for diversification. If/when this changes we might consider it.
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August 18, 2013, 10:35:42 PM
 #11

It is a pretty site and mentioned you wanted feedback so here is my 2 cents.

Thanks for your input!

Quote
- Have about us page and , people want to know users  who created it have skin in the game/ and putting themselves on the line for it, and the moment looks a little too anon.

Management wishes to remain private for the time being, until we can find a jurisdiction with regulatory clarity. Not only to protect us, but also our customers. But you're right, we should be able to put up an about page.

Quote
-who are the shareholders? is this going to be listed on a exchange?

The founders are currently the only shareholders. We might consider listing on an exchange at some later date. At the moment we have no need to raise further equity.

Quote
-you might want to think of the ROI you are offering given the options at there.

I've pointed out some caveats to the numbers TradeFortress presented. We have to rely on our own analysis when deciding rates.

Quote
- A Year is a long time for people to have to tie up there bitcoin. You might want to reward people more for 6 months.

This is your opinion. Others may welcome having interest rates guaranteed for a full year. We will probably have to adjust our rates going forward.

Quote
-what is the security like of the coin once transferred in.

Only loose change to cover immediate withdrawals are stored on our server. Most of our assets are spread out across the markets. All of our procedures, including the website, have been designed with security in mind.

Quote
- you could make it unique by offering it also for Litecoin option.

Litecoin markets are still illiquid and offer few opportunities for diversification. If/when this changes we might consider it.


Fair enough, I am sure there will be people who are happy with the return given the state of normal bank deposit interest rates, and are timepoor to look for investments themselves. In my opinion, I don't think you need to put your actual names up the webisite, but if you are wanting to market this in the bitcointalk forum, your existing usernames would give some confidence especially if set up and around since 2011.

eitherway all the best with your endeavour
Smiley
 

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August 19, 2013, 02:05:47 AM
 #12

I'm concerned that the multiplication of low-interest rate pseudo-banks will not end well. 

They aren't obviously ponzi scams due to the lower interest rate, but then again Madoff promised as low as 10% per year.  The risk is that these projects will not trigger warnings in the minds of even the most experienced bitcoiners who've witnessed the ponzi era first hand.

Why would you trust someone whose identity is unknown with your money?

What impact will regulation have?

How many of these "banks", "loans" or "bonds" will default?

Don't day trade.
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August 19, 2013, 02:47:51 PM
 #13

I'm concerned that the multiplication of low-interest rate pseudo-banks will not end well. 

They aren't obviously ponzi scams due to the lower interest rate, but then again Madoff promised as low as 10% per year.  The risk is that these projects will not trigger warnings in the minds of even the most experienced bitcoiners who've witnessed the ponzi era first hand.

Why would you trust someone whose identity is unknown with your money?

What impact will regulation have?

How many of these "banks", "loans" or "bonds" will default?

Crypto-currencies opens up the possibility of another era of free-banking, not seen since the 19th century. I guess it all depends on your frame of reference. Undoubtedly many will fail.

With great freedom comes great responsibility.
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February 20, 2014, 06:03:05 PM
 #14

Unfortunately First Principal Bank has had it's domain name seized due to alleged trademark infringements.

Operations will continue as usual under a new name and domain https://CryptoCoinSavings.co.
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