BFL Announces 600GH/s 28nm PCIe Mining Card

[enmaku]

It's call the "Monarch"

http://codinginmysleep.com/bfl-introduces-28nm-asic-and-its-a-pcie-card/

[1714938875]

1714938875

[joshv06]

Everyone read this:

I have a July 15 2012 pre-order for 2 ASIC SC Singles and I still don't have them to this day. I am coming from a group buy upgrade so I can't really get a refund. I am thankful people with PayPal/Credit Cards were able to get their refunds.

Screw BFL.

[tinus42]

It's call the "Monarch"

http://codinginmysleep.com/bfl-introduces-28nm-asic-and-its-a-pcie-card/

Available in Two Weeks^TM

[BeepBeep2]

It's call the "Monarch"

http://codinginmysleep.com/bfl-introduces-28nm-asic-and-its-a-pcie-card/

Available in Two Weeks^TM

No,
Shipping begins in Two Weeks^TM*
     _{*Two Weeks from time of reading statement, number of statements unlimited.}

[OmegaNemesis28]

Everyone read this:

I have a July 15 2012 pre-order for 2 ASIC SC Singles and I still don't have them to this day. I am coming from a group buy upgrade so I can't really get a refund. I am thankful people with PayPal/Credit Cards were able to get their refunds.

Screw BFL.

Im coming from a July 10 2012 preorder for an Single and still havent received mine either, and of course we paid on the day we ordered.
Backing this post. FUCK THEM and their lies.

The fact that they go and announce this with plans to ship BEFORE THEY HAVE EVEN FINISHED THEIR CURRENT YEAR+ QUEUE IS BEYOND ME

Anyone who falls for this is fucking out of their mind.

[vulgartrendkill]

it looks like loads of people are falling for it all.  Until I see a version hashing away, its vaporware

[User705]

it looks like loads of people are falling for it all.  Until I see a version hashing away, its vaporware

Pretty sure it's not vaporware but you will never see it in your hand with a positive ROI.

[fex]

Read carefully: it might "only" deliver 480 GH/s

600 GH/s nominal performance ( + - 20% )

From: https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage-new-products/600-gh-bitcoin-mining-card.html

[Justin00]

Im not into mining and don't care to discuss the negatives about BFL but that card looks pretty cool. I'd def be getting a few of them (even if they were slower) if I was into mining.

[John Self]

Have they shipped anything yet?

[crazyates]

Have they shipped anything yet?

Uhh, fuck ya. People all over these forums have their ASICs, from the 5GH/s Jalapenos to the 500GH/s MRs. I've gotten 3 different units already.

[Xian01]

Anyone who falls for this is fucking out of their mind.

 </thread>

[aoshea]

Delivered via unicorn express; Order within the next thirty minutes for a free golden fleece

[razorfishsl]

Yep last time we didn't give you a reach round...
  But for a paltry 10% they are now available.

[RChevalier]

I'm still in the process of trying to get a refund on my august 2012 order for a single.  While there are those of you who have your products in hand, you are in the minority.  For the rest of us, I think it's a matter of principle, and maybe a touch of spite even.  People don't like being lied to and led on.  Personally, it's gonna take something extraordinary for me to consider buying another BFL product again.  Especially now, with other options available.

[razorfishsl]

From the site...

Hey you Jerks, what are you doing announcing 28nm gear while you're still shipping 65nm? I want my Single

65nm products are shipping in great volume, but will be out of production long before the first 28nm Monarch cards are through development and ready to be shipped.  If you haven't already received your 65nm product, you will very shortly.  The ASIC engineering team finished 65nm development long ago and turned it over to production.  Chip development is traditionally a 12 month process, so ASIC engineering teams have to be forward thinking in order to provide the best technology to the market.  28nm development began a long time ago.  Please don't think that this means production of your singles ever lost a second of focus.  They are different teams and we've put enormous resources into building our supply chain & production capacity.  Nothing is more important than shipping your order as fast as possible.

Problem is.... IF you transfer your order, there is even less chance of getting your money back, because it adds another 3 months to the time since you paid.

[NWO]

The BFL scammers have opened new pre-orders when they haven't even completed their current crop of orders 

[User705]

From the site...

Hey you Jerks, what are you doing announcing 28nm gear while you're still shipping 65nm? I want my Single

65nm products are shipping in great volume, but will be out of production long before the first 28nm Monarch cards are through development and ready to be shipped.  If you haven't already received your 65nm product, you will very shortly.  The ASIC engineering team finished 65nm development long ago and turned it over to production.  Chip development is traditionally a 12 month process, so ASIC engineering teams have to be forward thinking in order to provide the best technology to the market.  28nm development began a long time ago.  Please don't think that this means production of your singles ever lost a second of focus.  They are different teams and we've put enormous resources into building our supply chain & production capacity.  Nothing is more important than shipping your order as fast as possible.

Problem is.... IF you transfer your order, there is even less chance of getting your money back, because it adds another 3 months to the time since you paid.

So what another year of no shipping at all.  Notice how the set-up for next round of excuses but we told you it will be really long time begins already on 1st day.

[crazyates]

Proposed question:

I pre-ordered multiple FPGA Single, and I received them all.

I pre-ordered multiple ASIC SCs, and I've received most of them. The rest were ordered later, and they haven't gotten to them yet.

I will admit that I was contemplating ordering from KNC or BitFury, but now I'll have to reevaluate that position.

Out of all the hardware being offered, this new Monarch's claimed specs seem to be the most profitable, and I don't imagine any new hardware coming along and changing that. (KNC is also 28nm, but it's not a full-custom chip. BitFury is a fully-custom chip, but it's only 45nm, not 28nm. Both are just starting to roll out, and neither has any units in customer's hands. Avalon or ASICMiner could die-shrink, but I don't think that will help. They'd have to redo everything to accommodate a larger, multiple-hashing-core design.)

So they have a spotty track record, but they've always delivered. They seem to have the best product for sale (or pre-order, depending on how you look at it). Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?

[User705]

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement.  By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches.  Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc...  So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in.  And that's the nice business version.  The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship.  I would love to hear a different argument.

[LudwigDG]

BFL is probably not capable of getting new money / to many refund requests and that is why they are launching this new product. To make sure all the late orders are still keeping their money at BFL instead of pulling it out.

At the other hand if this product is launched and shipping then the 65nm chips will be worthless very soon and this monarch will be the best even money offer that they can make.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

What happened to BFL's hardware chips?

[Bicknellski]

It's call the "Monarch"

http://codinginmysleep.com/bfl-introduces-28nm-asic-and-its-a-pcie-card/

The Monarch is a poisonous butterfly so a great choice in name. AVOID IT.

Suggest that the community boycott this product and let BFL die and save everyone years of more drama and lost days hashing.

[razorfishsl]

The page also Highlights WHY they are basically shipping nothing.......

Our facility in Kansas has the largest production capacity of all Bitcoin hardware manufacturers.

If 6-8 people is their Idea of a production facility... then I'd rather not be buying their product.


WAY more interesting is this:

Pre-Order Terms
Bitcoin, Dwolla or
Bank Transfer only

Basically anything that removes any consumer protection you might have had

[farlack]

I love the 1/4 cost, but better than their next best.

[lajz99]

I love this: "Butterfly Labs has shipped more ASIC products than all competitors combined ".


What a bunch of BULLSHIT.

[vulgartrendkill]

I`d like them to say

"this product isn`t ready yet, so pre orders will not be available"

Still, this is BFL.  Imagine what a buch of these actually getting into peoples hands will do to difficulty.....

[smoothie]

The BFL scammers have opened new pre-orders when they haven't even completed their current crop of orders  

This is why it is wrong for them to do this. They opened started something, didn't finish it then start something else and not finish it either before starting a third set of BS preorders.

Essentially customer preorders are funding R&D for their next gen chips etc

Bullshit in my view.

Essentially this is how a ponzi scheme works. Find new investors to pay off old investors and the cycle continues until no more investors can be found or a large sums of existing investors pull their investment out which is what they can't do given "no refunds".

[zvs]

like the guy up above said, it's a sound method of staying afloat when otherwise you'd go bankrupt

[slavix]

Everyone read this:

I have a July 15 2012 pre-order for 2 ASIC SC Singles and I still don't have them to this day. I am coming from a group buy upgrade so I can't really get a refund. I am thankful people with PayPal/Credit Cards were able to get their refunds.

Screw BFL.

If you want to sell your july 15 pre-order I will gladly buy them from you. Let me know.

[Todamont]

BFL = Big Fucking Liars. I'm boycotting their shitty company, they are complete amatuers and scammers.

[Viceroy]

BFL is a long con, look here for more info:   

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805.msg2957065#msg2957065

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=110805

[crazyates]

Proposed question:

I pre-ordered multiple FPGA Single, and I received them all.

I pre-ordered multiple ASIC SCs, and I've received most of them. The rest were ordered later, and they haven't gotten to them yet.

I will admit that I was contemplating ordering from KNC or BitFury, but now I'll have to reevaluate that position.

Out of all the hardware being offered, this new Monarch's claimed specs seem to be the most profitable, and I don't imagine any new hardware coming along and changing that. (KNC is also 28nm, but it's not a full-custom chip. BitFury is a fully-custom chip, but it's only 45nm, not 28nm. Both are just starting to roll out, and neither has any units in customer's hands. Avalon or ASICMiner could die-shrink, but I don't think that will help. They'd have to redo everything to accommodate a larger, multiple-hashing-core design.)

So they have a spotty track record, but they've always delivered. They seem to have the best product for sale (or pre-order, depending on how you look at it). Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?

No one? The only thing I seem to be reading in this thread is the same old bullshit I've been hearing since I started looking into them over a year and a half ago.

[Xian01]

So they have a spotty track record, but they've always delivered. They seem to have the best product for sale (or pre-order, depending on how you look at it). Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?

No one? The only thing I seem to be reading in this thread is the same old bullshit I've been hearing since I started looking into them over a year and a half ago.

 I'll bite.

Q: "Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?"
A: Because you have no reasonable expectation of delivery of product in a timely fashion, if we are going by well documented history. Using history is an indicator, you might theoretically be receiving your orders around this time in 2014.

Edit: ... and I am detecting the foul stench of sock-puppet on you

[crazyates]

So they have a spotty track record, but they've always delivered. They seem to have the best product for sale (or pre-order, depending on how you look at it). Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?

No one? The only thing I seem to be reading in this thread is the same old bullshit I've been hearing since I started looking into them over a year and a half ago.

I'll bite.

Q: "Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?"
A: Because you have no reasonable expectation of delivery of product in a timely fashion, if we are going by well documented history. Using history is an indicator, you might theoretically be receiving your orders around this time in 2014.

Edit: ... and I am detecting the foul stench of sock-puppet on you

First of all, why is anyone who doesn't say anything bad about BFL instantly accused of being a sock-puppet? I've seen it in other threads with other people, and now this. Purchasing from BFL isn't the popular thing to do around here, so it must mean that everyone who does it is just Josh trolling the forums? Yep, you caught me. I'm Josh, and I created this puppet account over a year ago, and I log in every day with (attempted) helpful posts just to confuse and annoy people. Is it working?

Second, I pre-ordered multiple Singles knowing they would not be delivered when expected. I didn't expect a 12 month wait, but I did account for delays and setbacks when I did my profit calculations. Here is no different. I would not be surprised to see a March delivery. As long as you're realistic and take their timelines with a grain of salt, I think it can still be a good deal. However, their announcement did seem to indicate that they are MUCH farther along in the development than they were when they announced the SC Singles. It sounds like they've already got chips designed and in production. As someone else mentioned earlier, they don't have to worry about PSUs, another setback in the current product line.

[millsdmb]

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement.  By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches.  Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc...  So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in.  And that's the nice business version.  The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship.  I would love to hear a different argument.

See the little YouTube video I put together. Its in my signature

[Bitcoinorama]

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement.  By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches.  Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc...  So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in.  And that's the nice business version.  The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship.  I would love to hear a different argument.

See the little YouTube video I put together. Its in my signature

Was that you?

[millsdmb]

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement.  By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches.  Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc...  So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in.  And that's the nice business version.  The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship.  I would love to hear a different argument.

See the little YouTube video I put together. Its in my signature

Was that you?

Yeah I put it together. I sought input from the community (see old posts)

[Bitcoinorama]

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement.  By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches.  Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc...  So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in.  And that's the nice business version.  The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship.  I would love to hear a different argument.

See the little YouTube video I put together. Its in my signature

Was that you?

Yeah I put it together. I sought input from the community (see old posts)

I choked on my tea earlier. It was very well scripted. It appeared to convey a lot of deep rooted feeling by yourself.

[millsdmb]

Forget about all the tech mumbo jumbo it all boils down to a very simple statement.  By now most ASIC manufactures can self fund since they collected plenty of money over and above their costs on these 1st batches.  Also they have plenty of information regarding hash rates, possible sales price points, wholesaler demands, consumer demands and prices they are willing to pay in relation to all the other factors, etc...  So the only reason to do pre-orders now is because they think what they are getting now will be a lot more then what they possible can get if they simply built it and sold it as it is coming in.  And that's the nice business version.  The nasty version is we collect pre-order money build it and if it is worth more then what we collected we will sell a bunch out the back door or give out to friends and relatives first before starting to ship.  I would love to hear a different argument.

See the little YouTube video I put together. Its in my signature

Was that you?

Yeah I put it together. I sought input from the community (see old posts)

I choked on my tea earlier. It was very well scripted. It appeared to convey a lot of deep rooted feeling by yourself.

I'm actually not invested in BFL but I do have the block erupter making .003 BTC/day =)

But clearly there needed to be another medium of the PSA, it really bothers me to see Butterfly Labs involved with bitcoin in such a negative way.

[Dalkore]

Everyone read this:

I have a July 15 2012 pre-order for 2 ASIC SC Singles and I still don't have them to this day. I am coming from a group buy upgrade so I can't really get a refund. I am thankful people with PayPal/Credit Cards were able to get their refunds.

Screw BFL.

Im coming from a July 10 2012 preorder for an Single and still havent received mine either, and of course we paid on the day we ordered.
Backing this post. FUCK THEM and their lies.

The fact that they go and announce this with plans to ship BEFORE THEY HAVE EVEN FINISHED THEIR CURRENT YEAR+ QUEUE IS BEYOND ME

Anyone who falls for this is fucking out of their mind.

Its the same thing they did when they announced ASIC and they have a 6 month backorder of FPGA singles.  How soon everyone forgets. sigh...

[k9quaint]

I pre-ordered multiple ASIC SCs, and I've received most of them. The rest were ordered later, and they haven't gotten to them yet.

You received your gear too late. You would have done better to order your BTC from MtGox or BTC-E than from BFL. 85% of the people who ordered from BFL haven't received their gear at all.

Out of all the hardware being offered, this new Monarch's claimed specs seem to be the most profitable, and I don't imagine any new hardware coming along and changing that.

Really? In the next 14 months, nobody can beat a VB.NET engineer at making hardware?

(KNC is also 28nm, but it's not a full-custom chip. BitFury is a fully-custom chip, but it's only 45nm, not 28nm. Both are just starting to roll out, and neither has any units in customer's hands. Avalon or ASICMiner could die-shrink, but I don't think that will help. They'd have to redo everything to accommodate a larger, multiple-hashing-core design.)

Bitfury is already in the market. There is at least one mining concern running 40TH/s composed bitfury devices.

So they have a spotty track record, but they've always delivered. They seem to have the best product for sale (or pre-order, depending on how you look at it). Why shouldn't I buy one? Or 10?

BFL actually has the worst products for sale because time is a very large variable. Better to have a PCI card that does 300MH/s in 2010 than a PCI card that does 600GH/s in 2015.

No one? The only thing I seem to be reading in this thread is the same old bullshit I've been hearing since I started looking into them over a year and a half ago.

It was too easy. Most people don't bother to shoot fish in a barrel. I just like fish.
Plus, this is the ghetto monarch thread. Try the main thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276692.0

[Perseus353]

The question in all this is whether they will again underestimate the heat problem and fail to meet the design that they've announced -- as happened with the Jalapeno and Mini Rig.

[eve]

The question in all this is whether they will again underestimate the heat problem and fail to meet the design that they've announced -- as happened with the Jalapeno and Mini Rig.

We just don't know why someone wants to open a thread on Butterfly when it is consider a Scam.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The question in all this is whether they will again underestimate the heat problem and fail to meet the design that they've announced -- as happened with the Jalapeno and Mini Rig.

We just don't know why someone wants to open a thread on Butterfly when it is consider a Scam.

Because of the news: Butterfly Labs wants to migrate pre-orders to the Monarch, a poisonous insect to most other creatures.

[vulgartrendkill]

The question in all this is whether they will again underestimate the heat problem and fail to meet the design that they've announced -- as happened with the Jalapeno and Mini Rig.

We just don't know why someone wants to open a thread on Butterfly when it is consider a Scam.

Because of the news: Butterfly Labs wants to migrate pre-orders to the Monarch, a poisonous insect to most other creatures.

I really doubt Josh et al got the irony of the name of their new progeny, and if they did, they are meaner than a bag full of pissed off skunks.

[nexus99]

The question in all this is whether they will again underestimate the heat problem and fail to meet the design that they've announced -- as happened with the Jalapeno and Mini Rig.

We just don't know why someone wants to open a thread on Butterfly when it is consider a Scam.

Because of the news: Butterfly Labs wants to migrate pre-orders to the Monarch, a poisonous insect to most other creatures.

I really doubt Josh et al got the irony of the name of their new progeny, and if they did, they are meaner than a bag full of pissed off skunks.

I am sure they hope that Monarch kills everything else off. If they deliver Monarch it will (nothing out there today matches the price/performance)... but they have to deliver and we all know how thin that ice is.

[Ytterbium]

Second, I pre-ordered multiple Singles knowing they would not be delivered when expected. I didn't expect a 12 month wait, but I did account for delays and setbacks when I did my profit calculations. Here is no different. I would not be surprised to see a March delivery. As long as you're realistic and take their timelines with a grain of salt, I think it can still be a good deal. However, their announcement did seem to indicate that they are MUCH farther along in the development than they were when they announced the SC Singles. It sounds like they've already got chips designed and in production. As someone else mentioned earlier, they don't have to worry about PSUs, another setback in the current product line.

You could order from KnC and get your unit in October and have it fully paid off by December or you could pay half as much and sit around for 6 months and get a monarch at a point in time where you make 5% of it's purchase cost per month.

As far as their hardware goes 350W in a PCIe Card?  It's insanity.  AMD has had huge delays on their top of the line cards due to thermal issues. But a GPU doesn't lose it's value if it's 6 months late (at least not for gaming)

If they were doing a $1k, 87W card I wouldn't doubt they'd be able to ship on time, but their proposal is insanity.

[DPoS]

I bet it can run Crysis too!!

I just bought 8

CAN I HAZ ROEYES NOW?

[nexus99]

You could order from KnC and get your unit in October and have it fully paid off by December or you could pay half as much and sit around for 6 months and get a monarch at a point in time where you make 5% of it's purchase cost per month.

Has KNC been able to show a prototype device yet?

[millsdmb]

[erk]

You could order from KnC and get your unit in October and have it fully paid off by December or you could pay half as much and sit around for 6 months and get a monarch at a point in time where you make 5% of it's purchase cost per month.

Has KNC been able to show a prototype device yet?

Of course not, they don't their chips from the fab until Sept. They only did tape out in July.

[symzzi]

I will eat my shoes if this delivers on time with the specs described.

No way it will happen as predicted, the numbers do not add up in any way.

[Ytterbium]

You could order from KnC and get your unit in October and have it fully paid off by December or you could pay half as much and sit around for 6 months and get a monarch at a point in time where you make 5% of it's purchase cost per month.

Has KNC been able to show a prototype device yet?

They've shown the PCB:
https://www.kncminer.com/userfiles/image/ASIC_PCB.jpg

They can load the board up with FPGAs and run it with the same power as the real chips should take in order to test power delivery and thermal load.

[Bicknellski]

Where oh where are the Monarchs?

[Syke]

Where oh where are the Monarchs?

http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/

Q: When do the 28nm Monarch cards ship?

A: However, this is our second generation, so we have much greater clarity on the process and plan to begin shipments in February, 2014.

[Bicknellski]

August 19, 2013 by Phillip Archer wrote:

"Their website claims their design is in the final stages of development and will be sending wafers into production shortly.

We’re now we’re in at the final stage of development (Tapeout) and are sending wafers into production at the foundry in the next few weeks.
Foundry production takes 10 weeks.
Bumping, Slicing & BGA packaging takes approximately 2 weeks.
Initial shipments begin and ramp up to full capacity over the following 3 weeks.

Interestingly, they claim to have been working on chip development for 6 months now, meaning there was significant overlap between the period they began 28nm design and were working fixing delays in their 65nm product.

Customers now face the difficult challenge of deciding whether to roll over their current orders or to keep their spot in line. A Monarch delivered in December will be break-even at around a 75% monthly network increase through July. If shipments are pushed back to January, anything over a sustained monthly increase of 59% stops being profitable. Considering that the 500 GH/s rigs have not shipped yet, they seem the most likely candidates for conversion, though realistic expectations for shipping dates will be crucial to any decision."

13 months later still no chips.

[klondike_bar]

August 19, 2013 by Phillip Archer wrote:

"Their website claims their design is in the final stages of development and will be sending wafers into production shortly.

We’re now we’re in at the final stage of development (Tapeout) and are sending wafers into production at the foundry in the next few weeks.
Foundry production takes 10 weeks.
Bumping, Slicing & BGA packaging takes approximately 2 weeks.
Initial shipments begin and ramp up to full capacity over the following 3 weeks.

Interestingly, they claim to have been working on chip development for 6 months now, meaning there was significant overlap between the period they began 28nm design and were working fixing delays in their 65nm product.

Customers now face the difficult challenge of deciding whether to roll over their current orders or to keep their spot in line. A Monarch delivered in December will be break-even at around a 75% monthly network increase through July. If shipments are pushed back to January, anything over a sustained monthly increase of 59% stops being profitable. Considering that the 500 GH/s rigs have not shipped yet, they seem the most likely candidates for conversion, though realistic expectations for shipping dates will be crucial to any decision."

13 months later still no chips.

Think you meant 8 months, 1 week? (at least since the post on august)

either way, its disgusting. BFL-Josh seems to have even stopped bothering to show up and berate forum users

[Bicknellski]

Nope, 13 months based on BFL statements they started the 28nm 6 months before the announcement on August 17th 2013. So counting back that is  July 17 , June 17, May 17, Apr 17, Mar 17 and finally Feb 17 2013.

Source: http://tradeblock.com/research/butterfly-labs-tests-market-tolerance-with-600-ghs-pre-order-announcement/?replytocom=9279?replytocom=9279

Interestingly, they claim to have been working on chip development for 6 months now, meaning there was significant overlap between the period they began 28nm design and were working fixing delays in their 65nm product.

Customers now face the difficult challenge of deciding whether to roll over their current orders or to keep their spot in line. A Monarch delivered in December will be break-even at around a 75% monthly network increase through July. If shipments are pushed back to January, anything over a sustained monthly increase of 59% stops being profitable. Considering that the 500 GH/s rigs have not shipped yet, they seem the most likely candidates for conversion, though realistic expectations for shipping dates will be crucial to any decision.

Why you should never buy from them?

http://tarspublishing.com/butterflyrefund/

[Threader]

When it comes to BFL business practices...this pic says it all 

[samson20min]

Is there anybody buying this? I can't belive it!

[thomashrev89]

Is there anybody buying this? I can't belive it!

There's an idiot born every second.

[samson20min]

Is there anybody buying this? I can't belive it!

There's an idiot born every second.

Nobody can be that idiot! BFL are known for months for not being honest. What drives people invest in this kind of stuff?

[jimmothy]

Just when you thought bfl couldn't get any scummier they decide it would be a good idea to pay shills to boost their trust and give critics negative trust.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525840.0

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=549403.msg5979745#msg5979745

[Phreakerx]

BFL= Blatant Fucking Liars.
They were so late delivering our ASICs that they gave us "chip credits"
We could use these credits to get "free chips/upgrades" if we paid more or rolled our order over.
Glad we didn't roll into the monarch, we would still be waiting.
Wasn't the monarch suppose to ship in jan14 or something too?

[Paladin69]

BFL= Blatant Fucking Liars.
They were so late delivering our ASICs that they gave us "chip credits"
We could use these credits to get "free chips/upgrades" if we paid more or rolled our order over.
Glad we didn't roll into the monarch, we would still be waiting.
Wasn't the monarch suppose to ship in jan14 or something too?

They originally said Nov/Dec...lol

[Bicknellski]

Trust summary for Pokokohua! Newbie with 8 posts... amazing how this "member" of the community is so fluent in BFL BS already. Must be a multi account.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=90768

Code:

Bicknellski 14: -0 / +16(16)	2014-03-30	0.00000000		
Pathological liar. Cheats forum members repeatedly with false information over BFL, 
their employees and their products -all successful- while his business fails, 
has absolutely no technical knowledge, qualifies non working usb hubs as
bfl product failures. Falsely rates people who are producing hardware and 
are an asset to the bitcoin community negative, and ridicules any forum 
member that confronts him on his lies. Too bad a lot of these types hang 
around on this forum, no orders but crying scam over legit companies, 
while they are never seen in the real scam topics.

My response. Anyone else feel that people should not post for payments on the trust system are welcome to do what I have done and jam up this paid shills ratings.

Code:

Bicknellski 14: -0 / +16(16)	2014-03-31	0.00000000	
Reference	Paid to post false and positive trust ratings. 
See his trust posts. He was bought off by BFL. (Delete)

So this person spent 123 BTC and had wonderful feedback for the following. Really? Anyone care to post their thoughts and "trust" for the following. Feel free to speak your mind without being paid to do it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63314 BFL_Josh
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=44366 BFL

[BFLrCONmen]

Really quoting accounts that have not been used for 2 years? You missed there current account

Inaba - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=8198

But your just as dense and accuse people of being 'raciest' and ignore them because you have such a closed mind! In some respects josh is right about you. You sit on a high horse and judge and think you are a master when you make yourself look like a ass wipe in this respect.

I agree with 90% of what you say, don't get me wrong but your misplaced aragance and your over assumption is letting you down, in all aspects of your life, not just here!