2013.08.18 - Germany recognises Bitcoin as currency

[cryptocoinsnews]

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/2013/08/18/germany-recognises-bitcoin-as-currency/

[1714884931]

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[Elions]

I'm surprised there's not as many people talking about this. It's a rather big deal for people in the EU.

[MA5H3D]

"An overseer group called the Bitcoin Foundation limits the total number of currency units to 21 billion"
What?.. Fuck off!

[dave111223]

Does anyone have the source directly to the German ruling/announcements; this would be useful to me.  (ie not this website http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/bitcoin100.html but the government website related to it)

[lonelyminer (Peter Šurda)]

Ask the office of Frank Schäffler, they emailed me the scanned letters, they might send them to you too.

[wachtwoord]

"An overseer group called the Bitcoin Foundation limits the total number of currency units to 21 billion"
What?.. Fuck off!

Hahaha, do these people seriously earn money with this crap?

[freedomno1]

"An overseer group called the Bitcoin Foundation limits the total number of currency units to 21 billion"
What?.. Fuck off!

Hahaha, do these people seriously earn money with this crap?

Beats me I sourced another link since this one was a bit idiotic on that statement ^^
At least RT edited theirs before posting it rofl and even added a bit of detail

"An overseer group called the Bitcoin Foundation limits the total number of currency units to 21 million. Currently, the price of a unit is around $ 110 (82 euros), according to online currency conversion sites."

[The Bitcoin Co-op]

I want to share this story, but not the "overseer" bit.

[NewLiberty]

Being recognized as a "currency" is great, but how is it meaningful?
Currency isn't a legally compelling term is it?  Most anything actively traded is a currency so it is about as meaningful as recognizing that water is drinkable, just a statement of facts.
That it was done in response by to a question from Parliament is the meaningful bit.  That it is talked about at all by such levels of government in the public eye is meaningful.  Just that the content of what is said (and its accuracy) is not so meaningful.

Its not like they said that they will accept it in payment for anything...they are just recognizing that some people somewhere do that.  Its the folks doing that recognizing that it meaningful... they are testing the waters.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

"An overseer group called the Bitcoin Foundation limits the total number of currency units to 21 billion"
What?.. Fuck off!

Hahaha, do these people seriously earn money with this crap?

Beats me I sourced another link since this one was a bit idiotic on that statement ^^
At least RT edited theirs before posting it rofl and even added a bit of detail

"An overseer group called the Bitcoin Foundation limits the total number of currency units to 21 million. Currently, the price of a unit is around $ 110 (82 euros), according to online currency conversion sites."

I thought one of the first jobs of the Bitcoin Foundation was to provide a source to all the news agency a place where they can get facts about Bitcoin.

Prior to any release, a major news agency should be able to glean the site or blast an email to get an immediate reply. The misinformation in all these papers is becoming laughable.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

The following comment was pen by a guy who will now be looked upon as an authority. See if you can spot his error.

Great article! Except...

The Bitcoin Foundation exists simply as a support group of the concept of Bitcoin. They have no more control over the network than you or I do. 21 million Bitcoins exist because that was how many were created at the inception of Bitcoin. No more can be created, it's part of the design.

This other comment is no better:

Please go understand how Bitcoin works before you write articles about it. The whole point of Bitcoin is that there is no "Bitcoin Foundation", it's a decentralized currency with no central authority controlling it.

[Itcher]

Don't give too much on it. It's germany. Our authorities all over the country are kings. No matter what you do - they tell you what you are not allowed to do and then you have to pay for it (not the taxes, you have to pay an extra-fee if the people which are payed by your taxes actually work against you). Germany has never developed a financial innovation, and things didn't chance here.

This news is maybe just a party-harmonizer. Remember, we will vote in September. And in our government-alliance sits the only german politician interested in Bitcoins - Frank Schäffler. He is also a hard and loud criticizer of the EU and the Euro and the Euro-crisis-policy. So they give him something to play and he will shut his anti-euro-mouth till the vote has gone. For them bitcoin is very unimportant - some little millions out  there from german coiners, a very little part of what we germans are paying for fees that the authorities forbid something, a little part of the money brought in the swiss every year, a little part of money we send to greece. Maybe the sum, the state gives to one little universitiy for a special science project. They just don't care about bitcoin.

And this is good. Neary noone in the government and in the authorities is mentally able to realize they can't controll bitcoin. Maybe in five years, maybe in ten. Then it will be too late 

[NewLiberty]

Don't give too much on it. It's germany. Our authorities all over the country are kings. No matter what you do - they tell you what you are not allowed to do and then you have to pay for it (not the taxes, you have to pay an extra-fee if the people which are payed by your taxes actually work against you). Germany has never developed a financial innovation, and things didn't chance here.

This news is maybe just a party-harmonizer. Remember, we will vote in September. And in our government-alliance sits the only german politician interested in Bitcoins - Frank Schäffler. He is also a hard and loud criticizer of the EU and the Euro and the Euro-crisis-policy. So they give him something to play and he will shut his anti-euro-mouth till the vote has gone. For them bitcoin is very unimportant - some little millions out  there from german coiners, a very little part of what we germans are paying for fees that the authorities forbid something, a little part of the money brought in the swiss every year, a little part of money we send to greece. Maybe the sum, the state gives to one little universitiy for a special science project. They just don't care about bitcoin.

And this is good. Neary noone in the government and in the authorities is mentally able to realize they can't controll bitcoin. Maybe in five years, maybe in ten. Then it will be too late 

Thank you for this insightful context.

[StarfishPrime]

A major aspect of Germany's stance on bitcoin is that there is no capital gains tax at all (0%) on bitcoin specifically - as long as mined coins they're held for one year prior to selling. This is in sharp contrast to almost anywhere else where capital gains tax would apply to any financial instrument by default, including bitcoin, metals, or anything else bought (or "mined") and resold later for profit.

While not too significant in the current mining environment, germany may become very attractive for early bitcoin adopters with large btc holdings.

A large part of what made the US so attractive for investors in the early days of the internet was the pro-innovation/pro-business business regulatory and tax environment at the time. Much has changed since then.

[NewLiberty]

A major aspect of Germany's stance on bitcoin is that there is no capital gains tax at all (0%) on bitcoin specifically - as long as mined coins they're held for one year prior to selling. This is in sharp contrast to almost anywhere else where capital gains tax would apply to any financial instrument by default, including bitcoin, metals, or anything else bought (or "mined") and resold later for profit.

While not too significant in the current mining environment, germany may become very attractive for early bitcoin adopters with large btc holdings.

A large part of what made the US so attractive for investors in the early days of the internet was the pro-innovation/pro-business business regulatory and tax environment at the time. Much has changed since then.

Holding for 1 year, for a capital gains tax haven in not such a bad deal.  Many miners are holding anyway.  And if you are only selling your year old coins, you can still show income after your first year.

[420]

"An overseer group called the Bitcoin Foundation limits the total number of currency units to 21 billion"
What?.. Fuck off!

brain fail for that writer

[Itcher]

Ok, I think I got it wrong the last time.

What happened in germany was not a political, but just a bureucratic thing. On secretary of the financial authority answered the question of a politician, regarding to nothing else than the legality and law.

He defines Btc not as money, not as a currency. It's just a "economical good" used as a money. The same like cigarrettes in a prison or like any other thing in barter exchanges. It becomes a unit of payment by a contract between its users.

Regarding the regulation this is good. Defined by this way, you would have to regulate many many things, e. G. the change of eggs by farmers against milk. But I don't know if it is good regarding the taxes. Remember, currencies have a special tax status, which must be attractive for bitcoin exchanges. I hope I am wrong, but this could do more harm than every regulation. Typical german way ... don't forbid it, but make it too expansive to flow.

[NewLiberty]

Ok, I think I got it wrong the last time.

What happened in germany was not a political, but just a bureucratic thing. On secretary of the financial authority answered the question of a politician, regarding to nothing else than the legality and law.

He defines Btc not as money, not as a currency. It's just a "economical good" used as a money. The same like cigarrettes in a prison or like any other thing in barter exchanges. It becomes a unit of payment by a contract between its users.

Regarding the regulation this is good. Defined by this way, you would have to regulate many many things, e. G. the change of eggs by farmers against milk. But I don't know if it is good regarding the taxes. Remember, currencies have a special tax status, which must be attractive for bitcoin exchanges. I hope I am wrong, but this could do more harm than every regulation. Typical german way ... don't forbid it, but make it too expansive to flow.

So treated as barter?

[Itcher]

not easy to say. I think not only words but also juristical backgrounds differ ...

here are the links: http://www.frank-schaeffler.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/2013_08_07-Antwort-Koschyk-Bitcoins-Besteuerung-Wirtschaftsgut.pdf
&
http://www.frank-schaeffler.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/2013_08_07-Antwort-Koschyk-Bitcoins-Umsatzsteuer.pdf

It's in pdf and I can't copy the text, cause it's an image. Maybe you find a way and pull it into chrome-translater.

Barter could be right. The terms they use are "complementary currency" and "unit of account". Also they say, bitcoins falls under the class of "economic goods" (dt.: Wirtschaftsgüter, leo suggests also "assets" and "commodities") "which could be the object of a private sale".

[Gabi]

So now the Foundation became an overseer and is controlling the total bitcoin supply? LOL at fail journalism