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Author Topic: Gox/Bitstamp spread breaches 20%. The bank run on Gox has started! 8/19  (Read 5411 times)
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August 19, 2013, 07:08:03 AM
 #1

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1kniz4/goxbitstamp_variance_blows_through_20_the_bank/
http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/mtgox/btcusd

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August 19, 2013, 07:17:47 AM
 #2

It is pretty obvious that the other exchanges' prices not moving by much shows the loss of confidence in MTGOX.

I refuse to use GOX ever unless they prove for a significant amount of time that they are run with professionalism under NEW MANAGEMENT.

The current management is one word: Ridiculous

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August 19, 2013, 07:45:19 AM
 #3

Same thing happened on bitfloor the day it went down.

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August 19, 2013, 08:24:10 AM
 #4

They should stop trading and try to work out the queue.
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August 19, 2013, 08:29:26 AM
 #5

They should stop trading and try to work out the queue.

I agree.

Its especially unfair that some larger players have full access to withdraw and other don't.

Either it should be a fair market to all players, or the trading should be halted.

zeroblock
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August 19, 2013, 08:59:21 AM
 #6

They should stop trading and try to work out the queue.

Its especially unfair that some larger players have full access to withdraw and other don't.

Either it should be a fair market to all players, or the trading should be halted.

We have no evidence at all that this is the case. There is ZERO evidence that some guy who looked nervous in a video or mtgox staff or friends of mtgox staff is getting their withdraws and their money out while everyone else is left hanging.

That this seems pretty obvious to everyone who follows the markets closely is another story, and we can all do our own thinking. But there is, as said, zero evidence, it's just a theory. We can all calculate how likely we think it is that this theory is true, of course. We are still free to do some things in the "free" western world (just don't say anything critical of the government or say bad things like "what is false-flag terror, what was operation northwoods, etc").

I agree, it is speculation, but I think it has some merit. 

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179586.msg2932780#msg2932780
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August 19, 2013, 09:01:21 AM
 #7

Bitstamp is at 102.6$ now so going up. Up 3.3% for the day.


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EuroTrash
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August 19, 2013, 09:11:28 AM
 #8

Bitstamp is at 102.6$ now so going up. Up 3.3% for the day.

There is a certain "drag effect" that makes it so that the bank run on Gox brings also Stamp price up.
On as to how much of that drag is due to end of holidays + new bubble starting rather than due to suckers that think "Gox price is up, buy buy buy on Stamp that's cheaper" - well that topic is likely going to be a hot debate in the speculation forum.

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August 19, 2013, 09:19:05 AM
 #9

Bitstamp is at 102.6$ now so going up. Up 3.3% for the day.

There is a certain "drag effect" that makes it so that the bank run on Gox brings also Stamp price up.
On as to how much of that drag is due to end of holidays + new bubble starting rather than due to suckers that think "Gox price is up, buy buy buy on Stamp that's cheaper" - well that topic is likely going to be a hot debate in the speculation forum.

There are some silly people out there who might have panicked perhaps, it's likely, not saying it isn't.

I think, however, the big jump in price is due to very bullish signs for Bitcoin. Recent attention it got from Washington made some hedge fund managers pay more close attention, some even recommending their customers including Bitcoin in their portofolio and thing is MtGox is still the go to exchange for big players, not the Slovenia Eastern Europe based Bitstamp.

All who are bit informed on the issue know that MtGox is full of cash with plenty of investors willing to line up and fork money into it. They're not having a cash problem. Their withdrawal delays are merely an issue of logistics until they'll work out better deals with several banking partners.


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August 19, 2013, 09:21:03 AM
 #10

I think, however, the big jump in price is due to very bullish signs for Bitcoin. Recent attention it got from Washington made some hedge fund managers pay more close attention, some even recommending their customers including Bitcoin in their portofolio and thing is MtGox is still the go to exchange for big players, not the Slovenia Eastern Europe based Bitstamp.

Bullish signs, so investors buying BTC. Ok. Why then not buy BTC at bitstamp for example, where price is lower? The difference between Gox and others is still rising.
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August 19, 2013, 09:22:41 AM
 #11


oh great another topic
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August 19, 2013, 09:22:56 AM
 #12

Oh, come on!

The Dollar-Volumen going through gox has grown too much this year, naturally they have problems with banks and regulation. When "BitserviceX" shut down some days ago, the ceo made some interesting comments on the issue:

Quote
Why Mt.Gox is a bottleneck, just like every other exchange

Because Euro-SEPA transfers are actually credit tranfers and can be re-called up to 10 business days, Mt.Gox is forced to delay EUR deposits for 10 business days as well. This is not Mt.Gox's fault, but the way SEPA works. SEPA recalls have cost Mt.Gox a lot of money from prematurely crediting SEPA transfers.

According to Mt.Gox their only European bank in Poland has imposed daily withdrawal limits. Your EUR withdrawals enter a queue and can take 3-8 weeks to process. I believe this. European banks are required by law to prevent money laundering and financing of terrorism. The amount of cash Mt.Gox is withdrawing is suspicious. For example, corporate businesses such as T-Mobile would never need to withdraw so much cash back to their individual customers. Mass withdrawals are a strange and suspicious phenomenon in the banking world. The Mt.Gox outgoing cashflow is so suspicious that we should be lucky that it is even possible to get EUR out of Mt.Gox.

Why doesn't Mt.Gox simply open up multiple European bank accounts? Because most banks do not accept "Bitcoin businesses" at all. Banks have the legal right to deny business they do not understand.

"Oh, but surely, Bitstamp is the solution!" BULLSHIT. Once Bitstamp reaches high levels of outgoing withdrawals then Bitstamp's bank accounts will also be shut down, just like Mt.Gox's. Bitstamp operates within the European Union and must therefore comply with the same laws to prevent money laundering and financing of terrorism. Soon Bitstamp will have to deal with daily withdrawal limits from their bank. Bitstamp will face the exact same problems as Mt.Gox. There are no magical pills to solve real world problems.

Besides, even though BitServiceX maintains a Trusted account at Mt.Gox, we can only withdraw 10K EUR per day and 100K EUR per month, severely limiting cash flow back into BitServiceX.

Problem: exchanges with European bank accounts can never service mass withdrawals. At some point all bank accounts handling Bitcoin withdrawals will either be shutdown or severely restricted to prevent money laundering and financing of terrorism. The same thing happened to Germany's Bitcoin-24.
Solution: currently, there is no solution but to spread your assets over as many different exchanges as possible.

they need time, and banks and authorities act in another speed as we do

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August 19, 2013, 09:23:45 AM
 #13

Did anybody here have his mtgox withdrawal limits changed to 0 btc and $0 per 24hours!!!?!?! My account is fully verified it used to be $1,000 or 100 btc just a few days ago.

I have thousands worth of btc and dollars in my account and was about to withdraw btc just now when now my limits are showing 0, as in i can withdraw NOTHING!! What is going on here?

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August 19, 2013, 09:26:30 AM
 #14

Why then not buy BTC at bitstamp for example, where price is lower? The difference between Gox and others is still rising.

Oh great idea! I wonder why nobody else had this idea
/sarcasm off  Roll Eyes

It doesn't matter if you sell your Bitcoins on MtGox for 100, 1000 or one gazillion USD per BTC - as long as there's no way to withdraw your funds.
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August 19, 2013, 09:28:34 AM
 #15

Why then not buy BTC at bitstamp for example, where price is lower? The difference between Gox and others is still rising.

Oh great idea! I wonder why nobody else had this idea
/sarcasm off  Roll Eyes

It doesn't matter if you sell your Bitcoins on MtGox for 100, 1000 or one gazillion USD per BTC - as long as there's no way to withdraw your funds.

Please read my post again. That was my point exactly, I was answering to the previous poster that said the rise in price at Gox is mainly because of bullish sentiment.
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August 19, 2013, 09:30:56 AM
 #16

I think, however, the big jump in price is due to very bullish signs for Bitcoin. Recent attention it got from Washington made some hedge fund managers pay more close attention, some even recommending their customers including Bitcoin in their portofolio and thing is MtGox is still the go to exchange for big players, not the Slovenia Eastern Europe based Bitstamp.

Bullish signs, so investors buying BTC. Ok. Why then not buy BTC at bitstamp for example, where price is lower? The difference between Gox and others is still rising.

Because those are not as trustworthy and can't handle that much volume and big players like volume. You have to keep in mind that whole Bitcoin market is very small just $1.5billion or so. That's the market cap of a small sized US listed company.  It's peanuts basically.


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Herp
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August 19, 2013, 09:37:45 AM
 #17

Did anybody here have his mtgox withdrawal limits changed to 0 btc and $0 per 24hours!!!?!?! My account is fully verified it used to be $1,000 or 100 btc just a few days ago.

I have thousands worth of btc and dollars in my account and was about to withdraw btc just now when now my limits are showing 0, as in i can withdraw NOTHING!! What is going on here?

Nope.

All fine here:

Quote
    BTC : You can still withdraw up to 100.00000000 BTC provided you have enough on your account (your limit is 100.00000000 BTC per 24 hours )
    USD : You can still withdraw up to $10,000.00000 provided you have enough on your account (your limit is $10,000.00000 per 24 hours and $50,000.00000 per 30 days)


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Herp
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August 19, 2013, 09:55:15 AM
 #18

I think, however, the big jump in price is due to very bullish signs for Bitcoin. Recent attention it got from Washington made some hedge fund managers pay more close attention, some even recommending their customers including Bitcoin in their portofolio and thing is MtGox is still the go to exchange for big players, not the Slovenia Eastern Europe based Bitstamp.

Bullish signs, so investors buying BTC. Ok. Why then not buy BTC at bitstamp for example, where price is lower? The difference between Gox and others is still rising.

Because those are not as trustworthy and can't handle that much volume and big players like volume.

Hhahah trustworthy like Gox?  Well if you are looking at doing significant volume, one would traditionally do an off exchange transaction because even Gox's volume is ridiculously low for a currency market.  Oh and one other thing, if you want to sell, when can you expect to see your funds?  Hmm ya i'll just trust a shady Bitcoin exchange that tells me it will take 3 months to withdraw my cash.  

Answer the question: why not buy BTC at bitstamp?

Not saying Bitstamp is bad. I also have an account with them and they seem very quick to respond to support cases and such but it was wild west until recently in terms of customer verification and such. One was able to basically withdraw cash to any account hold by a 3d party. That's something that could have them shut down. They haven't taken verification process seriously or regulatory hassle that's soon to hit them. I was reluctant myself to use them for this reason. They were also working with UniCredit bank which is very shaky bank according to some analysts, meaning it could go bankrupt when next Eurocrisis hits in full force.

As alternative exchange I liked Bit-central more, the French exchange which went under after some hacker attacks. That one offered customer segregated accounts not 1 big account where all customer money was pooled together and also offered account insurance for those funds.

To get back to your question though, MtGox receives most of the media attention and it's the go to place for most people, especially investors who want a safe bet in a very shaky and shady Bitcoin environment. Gox may be sluggish, cumbersome' n such but it is safe you can't argue with that and they've made steps to get regulated.

As Mark Twain said: "I'm more concerned with the return of my money than the return on my money".
 


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zeroblock
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August 19, 2013, 09:59:50 AM
 #19

I think, however, the big jump in price is due to very bullish signs for Bitcoin. Recent attention it got from Washington made some hedge fund managers pay more close attention, some even recommending their customers including Bitcoin in their portofolio and thing is MtGox is still the go to exchange for big players, not the Slovenia Eastern Europe based Bitstamp.

Bullish signs, so investors buying BTC. Ok. Why then not buy BTC at bitstamp for example, where price is lower? The difference between Gox and others is still rising.

Because those are not as trustworthy and can't handle that much volume and big players like volume.

Hhahah trustworthy like Gox?  Well if you are looking at doing significant volume, one would traditionally do an off exchange transaction because even Gox's volume is ridiculously low for a currency market.  Oh and one other thing, if you want to sell, when can you expect to see your funds?  Hmm ya i'll just trust a shady Bitcoin exchange that tells me it will take 3 months to withdraw my cash.  

Answer the question: why not buy BTC at bitstamp?

To get back to your question though, MtGox receives most of the media attention and it's the go to place for most people, especially investors who want a safe bet in a very shaky and shady Bitcoin environment. Gox may be sluggish, cumbersome' n such but it is safe you can't argue with that and they've made steps to get regulated.


Calling Gox safe... I just can't imagine you saying that with a straight face.  Hm lying to your customers for over 3 months, not letting them withdraw USD, not rolling out Litecoin, not registering with FinCEN until your funds get seized, getting sued by Coinlab for $75 MM for completely disregarding their agreement (which they will lose)... I can continue if you'd like.  I'd just prefer that you not insult everyone's intelligence by calling Mt.Gox a "safe exchange."
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August 19, 2013, 10:06:39 AM
 #20

I think, however, the big jump in price is due to very bullish signs for Bitcoin. Recent attention it got from Washington made some hedge fund managers pay more close attention, some even recommending their customers including Bitcoin in their portofolio and thing is MtGox is still the go to exchange for big players, not the Slovenia Eastern Europe based Bitstamp.

Bullish signs, so investors buying BTC. Ok. Why then not buy BTC at bitstamp for example, where price is lower? The difference between Gox and others is still rising.

Because those are not as trustworthy and can't handle that much volume and big players like volume.

Hhahah trustworthy like Gox?  Well if you are looking at doing significant volume, one would traditionally do an off exchange transaction because even Gox's volume is ridiculously low for a currency market.  Oh and one other thing, if you want to sell, when can you expect to see your funds?  Hmm ya i'll just trust a shady Bitcoin exchange that tells me it will take 3 months to withdraw my cash.  

Answer the question: why not buy BTC at bitstamp?

To get back to your question though, MtGox receives most of the media attention and it's the go to place for most people, especially investors who want a safe bet in a very shaky and shady Bitcoin environment. Gox may be sluggish, cumbersome' n such but it is safe you can't argue with that and they've made steps to get regulated.


Calling Gox safe... I just can't imagine you saying that with a straight face.  Hm lying to your customers for over 3 months, not letting them withdraw USD, not rolling out Litecoin, not registering with FinCEN until your funds get seized, getting sued by Coinlab for $75 MM for completely disregarding their agreement (which they will lose)... I can continue if you'd like.  I'd just prefer that you not insult everyone's intelligence by calling Mt.Gox a "safe exchange."

This whole Bitcoin experience has been a trial'n error for most Bitcoin businesses, especially large ones. MtGox was under most scrutiny due to being largest player and thus attacked more. Smaller exchanges were relatively safe due to having less exposure. As things stand at the moment, Gox is in better regulatory compliance than Bitstamp or other exchanges. I'm not defending them by any means, just calling it as I see it.

The Coinbase lawsuit was an interesting twist. Coinbase was sure sorry for losing Gox US customer base and would be interesting to see how it will play out. It will most likely stretch out over 2-3 years or so and lots can happen in that interval. Coinbase did manage to raise some money recently but Gox is flushed with cash also so I wouldn't bet on them losing any trial. There will most likely be a settlement of some sort.


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