HASHFAST warranty just TEN DAYS after delivery

[cypherdoc]

I'm not implying that HashFast is doing this but it would make sense that a mining hardware company that both sells hardware and mines themselves would offer an extremely short warranties.

They then could use extremely cheap components that have a mean time failure to failure measured in the days or weeks. They would then pre-sell as much hardware as possible before they ship. Then, after shipping the average miner would die in a month. They wouldn't get new orders because their reputation would suffer but it wouldn't matter because they would have pre-sold all the hardware they planned on making. Finally, and this is the key part, since all the hardware they sold is now dead, the difficulty would stay nice and low for their own mining operation.

i have not seen one hint whatsoever that HF intends to mine.

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[krayzie32]

i have not seen one hint whatsoever that HF intends to mine.

Why wouldn't they?  Why would they tell you?

[Dalkore]

Avalon has zero warranty.  Did it stop anyone then?  Maybe a few...

Nope, soldout quick. 

[cypherdoc]

i have not seen one hint whatsoever that HF intends to mine.

Why wouldn't they?  Why would they tell you?

nope, they wouldn't.

you'll just have to trust my judgment of the situation.

[Ytterbium]

Why would they mine when they can sell chips for more then they'd ever ROI at?. They'd be throwing money away!

Especially when their chips will blow up after 11 days anyway.

[krayzie32]

Why would they mine when they can sell chips for more then they'd ever ROI at?. They'd be throwing money away!

Especially when their chips will blow up after 11 days anyway.

Because they can ROI at crazy fast speed when nobody else is mining.  You really think they are not marking up the price of those chips by a huge amount?  I would bet that they could ROI in a few days since they would have miners running before they even are thinking of shipping to customers.  Then they have the burn in test machines for a day or two to make sure they work 

[Ytterbium]

Why would they mine when they can sell chips for more then they'd ever ROI at?. They'd be throwing money away!

Especially when their chips will blow up after 11 days anyway.

Because they can ROI at crazy fast speed when nobody else is mining.  You really think they are not marking up the price of those chips by a huge amount?  I would bet that they could ROI in a few days since they would have miners running before they even are thinking of shipping to customers.  Then they have the burn in test machines for a day or two to make sure they work 

Sure, but they'd make more money by simply selling it then they ever would by mining.  It's called "opportunity cost", by mining with the chip they lose the opportunity to sell it at crazy-expensive prices.

[crumbs]

^^^ STOP!  You're both right!  They'll mine *and* sell later.  It's called testing & burnin.

[peonminer]

10 days to 30 days. It's like a addict telling you they *promise* to stop for 10 days. Wait, 30 days. You have 30 days free of addiction, guaranteed!

[BeepBeep2]

the HF chip will be overclockable hence this is a risk that they have to build into the warranty.

That makes no logical sense.   Also, it has nothing whatsoever to do with KnC.  Intel CPUs can be overclocked too, and they come with a three year warranty. http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-009862.htm

sure it does. HF only needs to meet the competition in the asic mining space.  not Intel.  Avalon had no warranties whatsoever and that hasn't stopped ppl from buying their products.

and OC'ing needs to be considered as it is abusive to the equipment as we all know.

We can easily offer a one year warranty for the box, psu, and module (board).

The chip is trickier. We need some way to discourage overclockers from toasting their chips. Offering unlimited replacements for free would be a bad business model.

I'm not suggesting that people overclock this or any chip. But we all know - some people do overclock. Let's not pretend they don't.

I still pledge to have an updated warranty by EOD.

Amy

VP Engineering
HashFast

Hello Amy.
Maybe you guys should consider an extended warranty program for the chips, without terms, like intel does.

http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

With the intel warranty above, I can do whatever the hell I want to a CPU, give it 2 volts under LN2 and kill it because my board got wet or because of electromigration and still get a new chip back.

[Ytterbium]

Hello Amy.
Maybe you guys should consider an extended warranty program for the chips, without terms, like intel does.

http://click.intel.com/tuningplan/

With the intel warranty above, I can do whatever the hell I want to a CPU, give it 2 volts under LN2 and kill it because my board got wet or because of electromigration and still get a new chip back.

No doubt Intel spent a lot of time making sure their chips don't blow up if you do crazy stuff to them, like blocking voltage that's too high and ensuring they shut down properly if they get to hot. Sounds like HashFast hasn't done that.

[ImI]

i have not seen one hint whatsoever that HF intends to mine.

Why wouldn't they?  Why would they tell you?

Why did Avalon ship Batch1 miners? Those miners made $100k. And why did they ship them instead of mining themselves?

[Ytterbium]

i have not seen one hint whatsoever that HF intends to mine.

Why wouldn't they?  Why would they tell you?

Why did Avalon ship Batch1 miners? Those miners made $100k. And why did they ship them instead of mining themselves?

Well, there's a lot of evidence they did mine for themselves, as well as sending them out. In fact, Avalons all came pre-configured to mine on a certain eligus.st account, which saw a lot of action.  Either from Avalon itself or people who forgot to re-configure it when they received their units.

[KS]

i have not seen one hint whatsoever that HF intends to mine.

Why wouldn't they?  Why would they tell you?

Why did Avalon ship Batch1 miners? Those miners made $100k. And why did they ship them instead of mining themselves?

Well, there's a lot some of evidence they did mine could have mined for themselves, as well as sending them out. In fact, Avalons all a few came pre-configured to mine on a certain eligus.st account, which saw a lot of action about 900BTC.  Either from Avalon itself or people who forgot to re-configure it when they received their units.

FTFY. It's a smelly business, no doubt, but let's not exaggerate the facts and turn speculation into an absolute.

[nowywbitcoinowymswiecie]

Are we talking of 10 days warranty for a chip In the working unit or bare chip warranty?

Its insane to have 10 days warranty for a complete product. Whoever accept this deserve to have problems!

Complaining about hard overclockers is an easy tactics BUT how can clients be sure Hashfast didnt use the cheapest components like capacitors, low quality, overloaded voltage regulators, PCB with too thin connections. Finally - how we will know if chip isn't already overclocked to provide advertised hashing speed?

Hashfast consciously disregards difficult questions (in main HF thread), make bold statements and finally come to this shieat.

People - don't be stupid. Unless HF clear those issues - don't buy vaporware. Especially if so many elements of this show looks so badly.

[iCEBREAKER]

1. Before assembly/shipping HashFast chips/units should be well tested and subjected to multiple stress-cool-stress burn-in cycles.  But the more thorough the test, the longer we wait for delivery.  Perhaps a performance enthusiast line, akin to Intel's Extreme Editions, is in order.

2. The factory burn-in, plus 10-30 days of continuous end-user use, is long enough for the vast majority of manufacturing defects to manifest into noticeable problems.

2. Optional extended warranties are a good idea and will save ambitious overclockers much heartbreak.  The time lost in exchange provides adequate incentive against abuse of HashFast's generosity.  HF must cherish and support the OC community, which will provide invaluable goodwill, publicity, and crowdsourced data on yields/tweaks/etc in return.

3. It may be possible, through firmware and/or hardware temperature sensors, to establish abusive conditions which void the basic/extended warranty.  Expensive wine has stickers which change color if the bottle has been cooked, ditto cell phones and moisture (to use a notoriously bad example of doing it wrong).

4. Another possible model is AMD GPU drivers, which require end-user click-through before unlocking OC capabilities.

5. 2nd gen HF chips may have more advanced idiot-proofing (embedded thermal/voltage sanity overrides ala Intel), as focus shifts from being the first 28nm ASIC to being the most advanced, full featured one.

6. ASIC companies are invariably started by hyper-specialized EECS eggheads.  Expecting them to provide a slick site/cart/UX from Day 1 is totally unreasonable, exactly like when you ask the colorblind webmonkeys to pick the theme or graphic design and they just laugh at you.

[Jaymax]

So I just got a mailout from HashFast pushing sales - I thought I'd bump this for the sake of anyone who hadn't seen it and is thinking about buying from them.  It's worth pointing out that regardless of anything said in this thread by them, the HashFast terms of sale warranty clauses are unchanged.

[Bicknellski]

Thanks for the details Simon.

If the chip is rated for 5years at 500GH, why is the warranty only 10 to 30 days?

Because with open source software, and overclocking we don't know what people will try and push these things to do.

We've spent some of the day hashing (!) over warranty options for those chips of ours.

As I mentioned earlier today, the 10-day warranty was legal boilerplate. And we can and will give a longer warranty for the box, psu, and board.

But for the chips, we cannot realistically offer even a 90-day warranty.

   Because with open source software, and overclocking we don't know what people will try and push these things to do.

What we *can* offer is a program to replace fried chips. You break one (after some initial period - 10 days?), you ship it back to us, and we will send you a new one. Probably including the motherboard, to be safe. Not for free, mind you. But for a helluva lot cheaper than a new mining rig.

We are still working out the details (logistics and price).

We're just assuming that someone, somewhere out there will push the chips too hard. And we are trying to do right by those people, without being chumps.

Check out the thread starting around https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=262052.msg2976145#msg2976145 for discussion of some of the technology that makes our chips run cool & fast.

Glad to see a dialogue between the community and the fabricators...

Warranty on any products for mining seem to be a real issue. Some of the DIY builds offer nothing more than best efforts and as is conditions for buying due in part to the very limited testing available and time frames that drive the project there is little or no time to actually do lengthy stress testing of units.

Can HashFast detail how it will go about testing the units it will offer?

Seems like people are asking for more of warranty on the chips as that is the core component and probably the focal point of failure. It seems interesting to offer the MPP but not as much "protection" on the basic chip.  Can you explain more about that reasoning?

[defcon23]

From the T&Cs at https://hashfast.com/checkout/terms-of-sale/

(a)     WARRANTY AGAINST DEFECTS.  Hashfast warrants that under normal use the Products (excluding those referred to in Section 7(b) below) shall, at the time of delivery to Buyer and be substantially free from defects in material or workmanship and shall substantially conform to Hashfast’s specifications for such Product.   Buyer will notify Hashfast in writing of any non-conforming Products within ten (10) days of delivery, otherwise Hashfast will have no further obligation or warranty for such Products.  Such notice will describe in reasonable detail the non-conformance claimed by Buyer.  Delivered Product will be deemed accepted and conforming unless Buyer provides such notice within the ten (10) day period.

I'm talking with our lawyer right now about extending the warranty against defects to a more reasonable 30 days.

Will let you know the results when I have them. I'd expect that will be before the end of today.

Amy Woodward

VP Engineering
HashFast

another proof of who you are... today we know much about yours real intentions...  you completly screwed your batch one customers , you promised, promised , promised and alwals FAILED !

[RickJamesBTC]

Who the hell fell for this garbage!! Ten day warranty because people may overclock, basing specs on overclocking.. Rofl