Are Masternode Coins ICOs?

[togoshigekata]

Theymos the Forum Admin that runs the Banner Ads on the forum
has rejected the coin BiblePay for being an ICO, when it is just a Masternode coin (like Dash).

BiblePay OP: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.0

Is BiblePay an ICO for being a Masternode coin?

===

Feedback:
"I noticed this time that your ad is for an ICO, but we do not accept ads for ICOs" -theymos

"Hmm, I'm not sure... I see that it's not a traditional ICO,
but since the architecture is maybe quite centralized (with the orphan fund and masternodes),
perhaps it could be considered "an ICO with more steps".

For now I think that it's too close to an ICO. You could create a topic in Meta requesting public comment,
and if there's consensus that it's more like eg. Litecoin than an ICO, then I'd probably allow it." -theymos

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[adrianbits]

In my analysis of Biblepay over the course of many months, Biblepay is a scamcoin that operates under the cover of the Bible and helping orphans. I have tried repeatedly to warn the community but have been deleted continually on the forum. No criticism is allowed on their private thread

The devs have no such power over this thread fortunately. I am again warning the general community to do due diligence before investing any time or money into this project

[616westwarmoth]

In my analysis of Biblepay over the course of many months, Biblepay is a scamcoin that operates under the cover of the Bible and helping orphans. I have tried repeatedly to warn the community but have been deleted continually on the forum. No criticism is allowed on their private thread

The devs have no such power over this thread fortunately. I am again warning the general community to do due diligence before investing any time or money into this project

There is a varied opinion on that matter.  Every individual should do their own research and make their own conclusions.  I can say that this user made the same claims over and over with little more than conspiracy theory logic to back their claims.  But for the record, yes, their posts do routinely get deleted from the moderated forum.

The coin has produced receipts for the orphan premiums paid, so in that regard the coin has been vindicated.  It's unclear how much coin any one user owns (much like any other coin), but there was not a pre-mine, nor a developer reward in the classical sense (although the Dev does get compensated from the foundation fund by vote of the Masternodes).

This is a coin that can be mined, it is based on DASH and uses Masternodes.  It is verifiable in its claims of charity.

[Flying Hellfish]

Theymos the Forum Admin that runs the Banner Ads on the forum
has rejected the coin BiblePay for being an ICO, when it is just a Masternode coin (like Dash).

BiblePay OP: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.0

Is BiblePay an ICO for being a Masternode coin?

===

Feedback:
"I noticed this time that your ad is for an ICO, but we do not accept ads for ICOs" -theymos

"Hmm, I'm not sure... I see that it's not a traditional ICO,
but since the architecture is maybe quite centralized (with the orphan fund and masternodes),
perhaps it could be considered "an ICO with more steps".

For now I think that it's too close to an ICO. You could create a topic in Meta requesting public comment,
and if there's consensus that it's more like eg. Litecoin than an ICO, then I'd probably allow it." -theymos

===

Also posted in Altcoin Discussion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2786014

Or maybe just call it "time released CO" I don't think its anything like LTC. LTC did not take 10% of the block subsidy. It relied on donations, volunteer man hours and users/investors...  ALL LTC ever created were equally obtainable by anyone that wanted them.

By reserving 10% of the coins over time it looks like another shit coin. Trying to word fuck it's way around the rules?  That's a pretty deep rabbit hole to go down IMO. 

[adrianbits]

In my analysis of Biblepay over the course of many months, Biblepay is a scamcoin that operates under the cover of the Bible and helping orphans. I have tried repeatedly to warn the community but have been deleted continually on the forum. No criticism is allowed on their private thread

The devs have no such power over this thread fortunately. I am again warning the general community to do due diligence before investing any time or money into this project

There is a varied opinion on that matter.  Every individual should do their own research and make their own conclusions.  I can say that this user made the same claims over and over with little more than conspiracy theory logic to back their claims.  But for the record, yes, their posts do routinely get deleted from the moderated forum.

The coin has produced receipts for the orphan premiums paid, so in that regard the coin has been vindicated.  It's unclear how much coin any one user owns (much like any other coin), but there was not a pre-mine, nor a developer reward in the classical sense (although the Dev does get compensated from the foundation fund by vote of the Masternodes).

This is a coin that can be mined, it is based on DASH and uses Masternodes.  It is verifiable in its claims of charity.

Biblescam was instamined plain and simple. The  devs and inner circle mined the coin several hours before it was announced. Following that announcement it was difficult for regular people to mine so the team had a headstart of a couple multiple million coins within a few days.

In december the coin's difficulty was reset at least 5 times allowing the establish CPU horsepower to have a crack at the coin again while all the miners on the pool couldnt get a stable client. This is not a conspiracy but verifiable by both the blockchain and the forum posts of that time.

Thirdly, the dev+team have used thier massive stockpile of coins to make masternodes for themselves. they hold majority votes over the budget and , being the good pigs they are, take advantage by voting salaries for themselves.

One has to ask why this coin has such a MASSIVE amount of coins released. 20,000 every 7 minutes. It is because the only way to profit off a shitcoin is to make it up on volume. The devs/team have acquired multiple millions of coins and then setup a majority on the masternodes. So they now control the budget and can give themselves 'projects' and 'salaries'.

All in all it is my analysis that this coin will remain in shitcoin pricing. Why because it gives out so much supply and the masternodes are incentived to sell them. So you will always many more sellers on this coin than buyers.

A big test of this theory will come this weekend when the coin is on sale again. All these masternodes will race to sell off their coins and the price will dive down 50%. It will remain there for a few weeks as new suckers race in to buy the masternodes. But at that point it will be over saturated and not be profitable for anyone

Except for the pigs of the coin who are making $100k off the suckers who buy into this 'charity coin'.

Now, as for the orphans. This appears legitimate. It has to be because of course the pigs of this project would dare not make an obvious scam they cant hide. They have to remain hidden behind the anonymity of their coins and mining and exchanges to make any kind of profit.

As for the 'bible' part of 'biblepay'. There is ZERO evangelical purpose to this project other than making money for people.  They thing because it is using bible verses to hash that it makes it 'proclaiming the gospel'. Wake me up when anyone is 'saved' by the intangible and invisible activity of computers mining bible verses

[616westwarmoth]

You come across as bitter because you missed out on the early development.  Hope you are equally critical of Bitcoin since the founder holds 10% or any coin with a defined premine of 10%.   But lets take your conspiracy point by point to let the world know your opinion is just that, an opinion.

The opening date of mining was announced WEEKS before with a working wallet.  Anyone with the gumption to mine on hour one could have.

The December issues were affecting everyone on pool equally, but the pool when having connection issues reverts to solo.  While there is a marginal benefit in my belief to the solo miners in such occasions, its not much.  In the end, high hash rates are still high hash rates.

There is no proof who owns Masternodes.  Yes, it's likely the dev and some early backers have more than people that came to the coin later.

Coins with massive numbers are easier to comprehend.  Which is more, .0000001 or .0000001?  Trick question, both are the same, but you have to look closely, versus 100,000 and 100,000.  Instantly recognizable.  The market takes into consideration coin volume and price, although small prices do seem "cheaper" and may confer a small price benefit in aggregate.

The coin has been un-naturally constrained by the difficulty of the two markets that it is at.  But now, if you want to put a tin foil hat on, this coin would have to be in cahoots with two moderately sized markets who make far more off of their normal business than any pump and dump collusion with a small end coin could bring.  It's just not reasonable to believe.


I all can say to those looking at Biblepay (or really any coin) is do your research, and know that every coin has a few vocal supporters like me, and a few vocal detractors like adrianbits.  Make your own conclusions but try and get all the facts first.

Regardless, to the point of the thread, the only way this is an ICO is if you consider all coins that are Masternode ICOs.

[adrianbits]

Coins with massive numbers are easier to comprehend.  Which is more, .0000001 or .0000001?  Trick question, both are the same, but you have to look closely, versus 100,000 and 100,000.  Instantly recognizable.  The market takes into consideration coin volume and price, although small prices do seem "cheaper" and may confer a small price benefit in aggregate.

A complete redherring. The volume of coins has nothing to do with 'understandability'. It has to do with the fact that 20k coins at 7 minutes with zero difficulty at start, equals 20k sat every 7 minutes with no difficulty since 1 sat is the lowest possible selling price. If it could have been 100k / 7 min it would have..but you have some high floor when asking people to buy a shit coin

1.5 million for a masternode thus means $10k. imagine that, printing money so easily so quickly. That is why this coin is a complete scam and fraud.

[adrianbits]

Looks like the dev team is about to bail on this coin. The coin will drop in value rapidly and the devs with their majority masternodes will extract every last cent out of sucker new investors.

Devs have announced they are looking to 'decentralize' the project...meaning they will tip toe their way out of the project allowing it to run its natural course of dead scam coin project. LMeanwhile they made out making millions.

Sad to use the orphan and Bible for money. Very sad for their souls

[adrianbits]

BBP dropped 50% after reopening just like i said. Expect even more dropping once the wallet on the exchange works again. Seems devs is taking their sweet time with that....my theory is they have a lot of bbp that they want to sell off before they get all the masternode's coins coming to sell.

Price will drop all the way down to 20.

This coin will never go past 100 sat because of the fact that masternodes will continulaly sell their free coins.

The project will be abandoned by devs before summer guarnateed. In the meantime they will use all the money they got to start another project anonymously. Rinse and repeat.

[PhaseshiftUK]

This coin will never go past 100 sat because of the fact that masternodes will continulaly sell their free coins.

Many masternode coins are worth far more than 100 sats.  In the case of Biblepay, it has a lower valuation per coin due to the high supply.

1.5 million for a masternode thus means $10k. imagine that, printing money so easily so quickly. That is why this coin is a complete scam and fraud.

I was disappointed at the high price of a masternode too, and so do not yet have one, but I'm not calling this coin and it's dev a fraud because of my disappointment.
You say about printing money, but some of those with masternodes just mined it, and others bought from those who had mined it.  The dev did not have millions of premine to sell.

The project will be abandoned by devs before summer guarnateed. In the meantime they will use all the money they got to start another project anonymously. Rinse and repeat.

I have seen several coins where the dev has done this and none where they have put in as much effort as the Biblepay developer (Rob) over such an extended period of time.  Rob does appear to be genuine in his wish to help the orphans and continues to work on several features to add to the wallet.

[PhaseshiftUK]

Going back to the original topic:

Theymos the Forum Admin that runs the Banner Ads on the forum
has rejected the coin BiblePay for being an ICO, when it is just a Masternode coin (like Dash).

BiblePay OP: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.0

Is BiblePay an ICO for being a Masternode coin?

===

Feedback:
"I noticed this time that your ad is for an ICO, but we do not accept ads for ICOs" -theymos

"Hmm, I'm not sure... I see that it's not a traditional ICO,
but since the architecture is maybe quite centralized (with the orphan fund and masternodes),
perhaps it could be considered "an ICO with more steps".

For now I think that it's too close to an ICO. You could create a topic in Meta requesting public comment,
and if there's consensus that it's more like eg. Litecoin than an ICO, then I'd probably allow it." -theymos

I disagree that Biblepay is a form of ICO.  I have seen several masternode coins where they are PoS and the only way to get a masternode is to buy the Dev's premine.  That is effectively an ICO.  Biblepay has not worked like this.

It would be useful to see the ad to see why they may have come to this conclusion.  Can you link to it somewhere?

[togoshigekata]

This was the original banner link sent to Theymos: http://fozy.altervista.org/bbp-banner.html
I think its since been changed slightly by the creator fox123

[PhaseshiftUK]

This was the original banner link sent to Theymos: http://fozy.altervista.org/bbp-banner.html
I think its since been changed slightly by the creator fox123

If it were to run, there's a slight change needed to correct the English (red to indicate the change):

"10% OF MINED COINS GO TO CHARITY" or
"10% OF MINED COIN GOES TO CHARITY"

(I'd suggest the first of the two)

[fox123me]

Hi everybody!

My username is fox123me and I'm new to the forum, but I've been following Bitcointalk for years and I really appreciate your work.

I'm the creator of this banner ad: http://fozy.altervista.org/biblepay-banner.html - its been changed slightly.

To dispel any possible speculation and doubt, I should like to emphasise that I'm not part of the Biblepay's team, I'm not christian and I'm not in a working/business relationship with Biblepay - unfortunately, I know there are some people that see conspiracy behind most everything.

theymos is good at his job, he applies procedures and guidelines to ads, but he finds himself faced with a dilemma ‘Is BiblePay an ICO for being a Masternode coin?’. I hope he will clarify this issue, there are more cryptocurrencies that fall into the Masternodes - No ICO category,  who are interested in advertising on this forum.

For adrianbits  and Flying Hellfish: you were very frank, and especially a little noisy in expressing your doubts. I believe that when different opinions are not restricted and filtered, the forum provides an amiable environment for expressing disagreement, but you should convey your point of view without being offensive.  

For PhaseshiftUK: oh, yes you are right. I have made a mistake in there. Thanks for pointing that out.

For togoshigekata: it was a real pleasure to meet you, if Biblepay is a legitimate long-term project, time will undoubtedly prove this to be so and in the future the wary people will have will have the opportunity to change their mind.

Greetings to all