Electricity prices

[giantdragon]

If you look electricity prices stats you can notice that the price for households is much more than for industrial users. Why not people who need large quantities of electricity just not switch to industrial category?
Is there some requirements that prevent to do this or just they don't aware about this opportunity?

[atomicchaos]

Obviously, if it were as simple as requesting it, it would have been done.

[giantdragon]

Obviously, if it were as simple as requesting it, it would have been done.

What problem is to switch to this consumer category? Minimum amount of consumption per month?

[atomicchaos]

Instead of asking here, you should call up your customer service of your power company. Too many answers that won't match your own experience for this topic.

[polarhei]

I guess, there is no special needs,or people have bought amount to run

However,cooling is too wasteful, why only few people use oil to deal?

[Hephaestus]

I actually called my company (DTE) and asked.  They told me that commercial/industrial rates were higher than residential, so they're either lying or insane.  They also said they won't give an industrial rate to a residence.
One of my most recent bills was about 4,000 kWh, worked out to around $0.16/kWh.

[giantdragon]

They told me that commercial/industrial rates were higher than residential, so they're either lying or insane.  They also said they won't give an industrial rate to a residence.

But what if you do your business in residential area? In large European cities many small businesses are located in multistory buildings where people also live, just occupying one of the apartments (usually on first floor).
I don't know what electric prices they pay, but I think industrial because our supplier offer only two variants: "household" and "business".

BTW, professional miners could consume a lot of power which is more than grid's capacity for apartments, so upgrading to industrial consumer and extra cabling is inevitable.

[greenbtc]

They told me that commercial/industrial rates were higher than residential, so they're either lying or insane.  They also said they won't give an industrial rate to a residence.

But what if you do your business in residential area? In large European cities many small businesses are located in multistory buildings where people also live, just occupying one of the apartments (usually on first floor).
I don't know what electric prices they pay, but I think industrial because our supplier offer only two variants: "household" and "business".

BTW, professional miners could consume a lot of power which is more than grid's capacity for apartments, so upgrading to industrial consumer and extra cabling is inevitable.

Industrial prices are not always cheaper.

It has a lot to do with your location and what the local power supply comes from. The cheapest places in the country for electricity usually get it from hydroelectric. In these areas, because there are huge surpluses of energy, what will happen is that they will offer it cheaper to large businesses or sometimes business parks will even be created to house multiple new businesses.

[zvs]

The prices here are cheaper for business, the base price is actually 0.094848 for residential (plus a $20 meter reading fee every month), but they haven't charged that much in 5 years or something.  A portion is deducted based on price the electric company had to pay for electricity (which for my location is 90% natural gas and 10% wind).

so here you can see price of natural gas by state:

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/ng_pri_sum_a_epg0_peu_dmcf_m.htm

texas isn't the lowest, but, well, texas is pretty big, and it is a lot cheaper in south, SE, NE texas.  re:  http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/natural_gas/analysis_publications/ngpipeline/intrastate.html

so, anyway, i've been paying about 6.5c for electricity, even though it says 9.5c.  the base price for industrial is 7.15c, but it comes with a minimum charge of $475.  i assume they also get a discount,  but maybe not as much.  still cheaper, i'm sure

there's also a different residential plan, where you get charged a $40 base fee, first 150 kWh x kW x 0.124944 (unadjusted), next 100 kWh x kW x 0.108944, excess kWh x 0.084440 (ed: fixed w/ updated rates),   so, yeah, it gets cheaper if you use more

[rolling]

Normally you will pay a lot more for electricity in a residential area for power.  The electrical lines going to residential areas are normally smaller and there are more service calls and maintenance expenses.  Commercial and industrial areas have larger lines and very little maintenance costs so it is usually cheaper.  I think people are going to be pretty surprised with their electricity bill when they start adding a bunch of miners to a residential area.  I know in California, everything is on a tiers.  You get your first bit of power for a decent price but if you get above a certain level, it goes up drastically.  Adding a big miner to your house will almost certainly put you in the highest tier if you have tiers in your area.  In CA, these are my tiers

1. < 282 KWh = $.11
2. 282 to 367 KWh = $.15
3. 367 to 442 KWh = $.27
4  > 442 KWh = $.31

On the other hand, commercial and industrial rates are right around $.10 KWh right down the street.

A KNC Jupiter is going to be about 550-700 KWh per month by itself so that already puts me at Tier 4 if I was to host one at home.  Long term, running a miner at home is not going to make sense for most people.  Traditional data centers don't fit the mold for mining either.  I think you are going to see hosted mining as the only viable option for the vast majority of people very soon.

[Dalkore]

If you look electricity prices stats you can notice that the price for households is much more than for industrial users. Why not people who need large quantities of electricity just not switch to industrial category?
Is there some requirements that prevent to do this or just they don't aware about this opportunity?

It is because many people don't meet the minimum demand to get those prices.  For many utilities it starts at 25,000-100,000/Kwh and higher to qualify.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Generally industrial (not to be confused with commercial) customers need to not only use a LOT of power but also agree to a mininum demand.  Depends on the utility but usually it is around 100 KW.  Note LW is an instanteous value, 100KW doesn't mean 100 kWh a month it means 100KW continually.  Like hooking up 100x  1,000W power supplies 24/7/365 forever until your contract ends.

A LOT OF POWER.  

Even if you wanted took your house couldn't handle that kind of power.  Most homes only have 100A or 250A mains so that limits them to 12KW or 30KW of continual load.  Still energy becomes heat.  100KW of electrical gear is like 300,000 BTU/hr.  Your AC couldn't cope eventually the air temp would get hot enough to ignite stuff.

Still if you really feel you have a need for that kind of power (building a 100 TH/s farm) rent some warehouse space and your utility will happily sign you up for an industrial contract.  Usually you will need to agree to power for 12 to 24 hours and pay a penalty when you don't use the agreed to power.  Yeah thats right industrial customers contract for a certain demand (i.e. 100 KW) and if in a particular month they use less ... they will pay for the 100KW PlUS they pay a penalty for not using enough power.

[DeathAndTaxes]

In CA, these are my tiers

1. < 282 KWh = $.11
2. 282 to 367 KWh = $.15
3. 367 to 442 KWh = $.27
4  > 442 KWh = $.31

That is unusual and has nothing to do with economics.  You can thank your politicians for trying to force a green lifestyle.  In just about anywhere else in the world you pay less the more you consume.  If you think about it, it makes sense.  The power plant has to be built even if you use less, the transmission lines need to be maintained even if you use less.   Larger customers are cheaper.

In VA (roughly)
summer
first 800 KW $0.08
above 800 KW $0.09

winter
first 800 KW $0.08
above 800 KW $0.07

[rolling]

In CA, these are my tiers

1. < 282 KWh = $.11
2. 282 to 367 KWh = $.15
3. 367 to 442 KWh = $.27
4  > 442 KWh = $.31

That is unusual and has nothing to do with economics.  You can thank your politicians for trying to force a green lifestyle.  In just about anywhere else in the world you pay less the more you consume.  If you think about it, it makes sense.  The power plant has to be built even if you use less, the transmission lines need to be maintained even if you use less.   Larger customers are cheaper.

In VA (roughly)
summer
first 800 KW $0.08
above 800 KW $0.09

winter
first 800 KW $0.08
above 800 KW $0.07

Yes, its actually a law here.  Many other states have similar tiers though, especially in the summer.

"By California law, all of the state's investor-owned gas and electric utilities must charge residential customers more per energy unit as the customer's energy use increases. This policy gives customers a financial incentive to conserve energy. Customers who are able to maintain usage at levels within the lowest-priced "tiers" of usage will pay considerably lower average rates per unit of energy used and much lower total bills than customers with usage in higher tiers."  http://www.pge.com/en/mybusiness/rates/rateinfo/howratesset.page

[giantdragon]

"By California law, all of the state's investor-owned gas and electric utilities must charge residential customers more per energy unit as the customer's energy use increases. This policy gives customers a financial incentive to conserve energy. Customers who are able to maintain usage at levels within the lowest-priced "tiers" of usage will pay considerably lower average rates per unit of energy used and much lower total bills than customers with usage in higher tiers."  http://www.pge.com/en/mybusiness/rates/rateinfo/howratesset.page

In the EU we have similar policies, but they seems don't apply to businesses (even to smaller ones, so you don't have to qualify for industrial consumption level).
Is California the same, or do small (non-industrial) business consumers (which most miners are) have to pay these "green" tariffs?

[rolling]

"By California law, all of the state's investor-owned gas and electric utilities must charge residential customers more per energy unit as the customer's energy use increases. This policy gives customers a financial incentive to conserve energy. Customers who are able to maintain usage at levels within the lowest-priced "tiers" of usage will pay considerably lower average rates per unit of energy used and much lower total bills than customers with usage in higher tiers."  http://www.pge.com/en/mybusiness/rates/rateinfo/howratesset.page

In the EU we have similar policies, but they seems don't apply to businesses (even to smaller ones, so you don't have to qualify for industrial consumption level).
Is California the same, or do small (non-industrial) business consumers (which most miners are) have to pay these "green" tariffs?

No, its just residential.  Commercial and industrial get cheaper as you use more.

[giantdragon]

No, its just residential.  Commercial and industrial get cheaper as you use more.

Are tariffs in CA restricted to geographical areas (i.e. some areas are only residential, other ones only commercial)?
In my city (Riga, Latvia) many multistory buildings have both residents and businesses, so you can declare your apartment as place for business any time and vice versa.

[DeathAndTaxes]

No, its just residential.  Commercial and industrial get cheaper as you use more.

Are tariffs in CA restricted to geographical areas (i.e. some areas are only residential, other ones only commercial)?
In my city (Riga, Latvia) many multistory buildings have both residents and businesses, so you can declare your apartment as place for business any time and vice versa.

Find your power company website and look up their schedules of rates.   Usually the schedule will specify the terms. 

[Kluge]

In CA, these are my tiers

1. < 282 KWh = $.11
2. 282 to 367 KWh = $.15
3. 367 to 442 KWh = $.27
4  > 442 KWh = $.31

That is unusual and has nothing to do with economics.  You can thank your politicians for trying to force a green lifestyle.  In just about anywhere else in the world you pay less the more you consume.  If you think about it, it makes sense.  The power plant has to be built even if you use less, the transmission lines need to be maintained even if you use less.   Larger customers are cheaper.

In VA (roughly)
summer
first 800 KW $0.08
above 800 KW $0.09

winter
first 800 KW $0.08
above 800 KW $0.07

The weird progressive tier thing is in effect in MI, too, no matter the time of year. For Consumers Energy, $/KWh if 250KWh consumed = $.16076, if 500KWh consumed = $.1457, if 1000KWh consumed = $.15218, if 2000 KWh consumed = $.158925

Those are the "real rates" (after fees/taxes), and factor in the price for previous tiers getting up to, say 2000KWh (that is, $/KWh from 1KWh-2KWh consumed is not $.15218, but significantly higher because it was cheaper in the lower-consumption tiers - if that makes sense). I actually can't find the nominal $/KWh tiers. It seems to be intentionally difficult-to-find.

[zvs]

The tiered plan here has always had reducing prices the more you use, summer or not

but if you consider the base fee, it probably cancels out a lot of those small increases that are being listed here...  like a $20 or $25 meter reading fee