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Author Topic: Isn't fraud committed if a US citizens uses a VPN to get into ICO?  (Read 131 times)
CrYpToChRi$
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January 22, 2018, 05:55:18 PM
 #1

I know that there aren't any US laws explicitly stating that Americans cannot participate in ICOs. The ICO issuers ban American participation in fear of future regulations. The SEC statements regarding the DAO only refer to the DAO specifically, but suggests that some, not all, ICOs may be considered a security. But are you committing fraud by circumventing the ICO issuers restrictions with a VPN? Thoughts? This isn't regarding the ICOs that now require KYC.
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January 23, 2018, 12:12:41 PM
 #2

I think the Know Your Customer also known as KYC itself can help in this issue. Even when you are using VPN, still the KYC can help.
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January 23, 2018, 12:21:47 PM
 #3

I think the Know Your Customer also known as KYC itself can help in this issue. Even when you are using VPN, still the KYC can help.

What is with this comment? it doesn't have any relevance to the question. Moving on, yeah you are actually creating a fraud by escaping the RULE they have provided. As far as I know KYC needs some verifications e.g.  passport, I.D. so you still need to submit all this information even if you are using VPN's.
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January 23, 2018, 02:05:54 PM
 #4

Using a VPN is not illegal. Users have the opportunity to participate in ICO. The developers formally take responsibility for the fact that accept Americans. All conveniently. I think this proves the absurdity of the ban. The government do not know how to use inventions for the benefit. They used to only act prohibitions. So people are forced to go to the deception.

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January 23, 2018, 02:10:29 PM
 #5

There's absolutely no fraud in using a VPN. You could get the same result by traveling abroad, but there could be a fraud if falsify your identity, your address or your citizenship.

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January 24, 2018, 02:38:20 AM
 #6

I know that there aren't any US laws explicitly stating that Americans cannot participate in ICOs. The ICO issuers ban American participation in fear of future regulations. The SEC statements regarding the DAO only refer to the DAO specifically, but suggests that some, not all, ICOs may be considered a security. But are you committing fraud by circumventing the ICO issuers restrictions with a VPN? Thoughts? This isn't regarding the ICOs that now require KYC.
ICO's developers doesn't really care if you are from US or anywhere in this world as long as they'll have another investor before.

But seeing some sample on how the regulations are tough and people who are sued for not following what US is implementing about ICO's they totally scared of it now.

In what state you live? you must ask someone or join a community near you and ask them about this thing. I'm thinking two sides on it and I don't want to give you trouble if you violated any rule cos' it can certainly give you sanctions.

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onebtcforlife
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January 24, 2018, 05:53:25 AM
 #7

Yes, some companies are restricting to participate in the ICO for US citizens, but if you use the VPN but at the time of submitting the KYC documents you need to upload your original documents at that time they will reject you. So it is not suggestable to participate in the ICO.

UnusualLeech045
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January 24, 2018, 12:58:22 PM
 #8

Some suggestions have already been sprouting. Others (people that came from other countries not affected by the regulations) offers to buy and invest your money for you not sure if that would work though.
CrYpToChRi$
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January 24, 2018, 06:21:41 PM
 #9

There's absolutely no fraud in using a VPN. You could get the same result by traveling abroad, but there could be a fraud if falsify your identity, your address or your citizenship.

There are no US laws banning ICOs to Americans, rather possible future regulations regarding security classifications for ICO issuers. This is why they ban American participation. If you lie and get into the ICO, wouldn't that be contractual fraud? What I've gathered the only way you'd get in trouble legally is if the ICO issuer started a civil lawsuit against your participation.
CrYpToChRi$
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January 24, 2018, 06:28:42 PM
 #10

Using a VPN is not illegal. Users have the opportunity to participate in ICO. The developers formally take responsibility for the fact that accept Americans. All conveniently. I think this proves the absurdity of the ban. The government do not know how to use inventions for the benefit. They used to only act prohibitions. So people are forced to go to the deception.

What about the legalize and TOS outline in the whitepaper? Wouldn't you be in violation of circumventing those restrictions? There are various whitepapers that have different clauses, but one that caught my eye was EOS. Basically, if you use a VPN to participate, you will then be liable for paying for the legal costs of EOS if they are taken to court for soliciting unregistered securities to Americans.

Here is a direct quote from their EOS distribution paper:

"U.S. persons and Chinese persons are strictly prohibited and restricted from . . . purchasing EOS Tokens and Company is not soliciting purchases by U.S. persons or Chinese persons in any way. . . Company is not bound by this Agreement if this Agreement has been entered into by a U.S. person. . . and Company may take all necessary and appropriate actions, in its sole discretion, to invalidate this Agreement, including referral of information to the appropriate authorities. Any U.S. person or Chinese person who uses the EOS Token Contract and/or purchases EOS Tokens or enters this Agreement on an unlawful, unauthorized or fraudulent basis shall be solely liable for, and shall indemnify, defend, and hold harmless block.one . . . from any damages, losses, liabilities, costs or expenses of any kind whether direct or indirect, consequential, compensatory, incidental, actual, exemplary, punitive or special . . ."



Here is an article explaining it better:

https://cryptoattorneyblog.com/news/2018/1/10/eos-a-tale-of-crypto-insanity


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January 24, 2018, 07:56:19 PM
 #11

It can be viewed as fraud. If we take a single sentence from the definition:
Quote
The purpose of fraud may be monetary gain or other benefits, such as obtaining a passport or travel document, driver's license or qualifying for a mortgage by way of false statements
You are actually doing it. If the law is prohibiting you from obtaining certain tokens and the owner of the ICO is blocking your country's IP and you are using a VPN to gain access and get the tokens, you are knowingly ignoring the law. So you are making a false statement by posing as a person from different area to be able to buy tokens that are prohibited in your country.

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January 29, 2018, 08:17:37 AM
 #12

A law is a law, if americans as you say are prohibited on joining an ICO then any form of fraud that can lead you to it is illegal. They ban americans for some purpose and that is maybe you can make regulations about the ICO in the future. I see that this was unfair for the us citizens but i know they are only doing this for the sake of the many.
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January 29, 2018, 08:40:55 AM
 #13

The root word here is “fear” of any incoming prohibition, so it is not yet or even haven’t said it is illegal, this are just assumptions and the team behind ICO is just making any security measure for them and they’re projects. We all know how American government work and how they pursue anything for tax purposes. Using VPN isn’t illegal and joining ICO with it to hide your location intentionally or unintentionally isn’t good but not illegal either.

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January 29, 2018, 11:36:41 AM
 #14

Ban for American citizens to take part in the ICO is a violation of human rights. Americans who are interested in lifting this ban should unite and file a lawsuit to the constitutional court. I am sure that this law will be repealed. The real problem is that people do not know how to unite to achieve their goals. Bitcoin was supposed to unite people but this did not happen too. Greed was stronger.
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January 30, 2018, 02:39:57 AM
 #15

I dont think you commit fraud by using a VPN in order to gain access to an ICO, but it is definitely in breach of contract as the terms and conditions of most ICOs these days state that sales are prohibited to persons within the US. Use of a VPN also creates issues as the where the sale actually took place and which jurisdiction applies. If you buy something online from Amazon in New Zealand, the NZ consumer guarantees act applies. So by purchasing from the States you may open up the operator of the ICO to the jurisdiction of US regulators as that may be where the sale took place.

With KYC stuff you would be committing fraud if you submitted forged or inaccurate details in order to gain access to the sale. I'm surprised that most ICOs do not make you tick a declaration that you are eligible to participate and that you will indemnify the operator for any losses suffered if your declaration is false. I've seen 'i have read and agree with terms and conditions' but its not very 'protect your ass' (and crypto is a protect your own ass world).
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March 05, 2018, 07:27:35 PM
 #16

I think the Know Your Customer also known as KYC itself can help in this issue. Even when you are using VPN, still the KYC can help.

What is with this comment? it doesn't have any relevance to the question. Moving on, yeah you are actually creating a fraud by escaping the RULE they have provided. As far as I know KYC needs some verifications e.g.  passport, I.D. so you still need to submit all this information even if you are using VPN's.
I do not see a clear prohibition for US citizens to invest in ICO. However, if such a ban exists, entering the ICO campaign and investing its funds using various VPN programs in any case will not be considered fraud. Fraud is deception or abuse of trust in order to acquire another's property. In this case, no one else owns property, and therefore there will be no fraud. If there are specific rules prohibiting citizens from investing in the ICO, they can also be sanctioned for those who violate these rules. If no sanctions are established, then there is a ban, but there is no punishment for its violation.

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March 05, 2018, 11:10:32 PM
 #17

I think the Know Your Customer also known as KYC itself can help in this issue. Even when you are using VPN, still the KYC can help.

What is with this comment? it doesn't have any relevance to the question. Moving on, yeah you are actually creating a fraud by escaping the RULE they have provided. As far as I know KYC needs some verifications e.g.  passport, I.D. so you still need to submit all this information even if you are using VPN's.
I do not see a clear prohibition for US citizens to invest in ICO. However, if such a ban exists, entering the ICO campaign and investing its funds using various VPN programs in any case will not be considered fraud. Fraud is deception or abuse of trust in order to acquire another's property. In this case, no one else owns property, and therefore there will be no fraud. If there are specific rules prohibiting citizens from investing in the ICO, they can also be sanctioned for those who violate these rules. If no sanctions are established, then there is a ban, but there is no punishment for its violation.
There might not be a clear prohibition towards to this matter but we eventually see that some ICO's now are prohibiting American citizens to invest into their project which we can presume that they are really imposing such law.It might not be considered as fraud but eventually a violation that can lead up to further consequences that you might obtained on opposing such laws being implemented.

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March 06, 2018, 05:13:39 AM
 #18

I do not see a clear prohibition for US citizens to invest in ICO.

That would be because there are none. The US considers most ICOs securities, so companies will have to comply with US regulations if they want to cater to US customers. Some companies find this way too troublesome, so they simply implement an in-house rule that they don't deal with US citizens. I don't think using a VPN to circumvent this limitation is fraud (in a criminal sense at least) either, but they may choose not to honor your holdings and there's nothing you can do about it.

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March 06, 2018, 09:09:19 AM
 #19

It's not entirely regulated. You are making a false statement about your fake location, but they don't check it and that's it.
If they want to take a serious action they would ask for your ID or something.
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March 08, 2018, 10:33:49 AM
 #20



I still have to read a case filed against an individual as a US citizen who participated in an ICO. The problem is that now many ICO projects are not accepting token buyers from USA and yes it is because they are afraid that soon an agency of the government will have a negative stand on such a thing and they can get affected. This is the reason why KYC is established to make sure the project is not getting people from countries where ICOs are not allowed ether clearly pronounced or just subtly suggested. The big problem with the US government is that there remains to be no clear-cut stand or framework for the whole thing which I believe quite an absurd and anti-people. At least, with China we know the stand already clear and concise.

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