[BTC-TC] CryptX introduces the PETA-MINE - 18,000 CHIPS IN SEPTEMBER/UPDATE

[Deprived]

It's baffling how some issuers seem to think unilaterally changing their contract after shares have been sold is acceptable. This defeats the entire purpose of having a contract.

Also baffling is the exchange operator's indulgence of such anarchy.  Ukyo would never stand for that nonsense!

Bitfunder allows issuers to just edit their contracts - so they can just skip the stage of talking about it on the forum.  Not sure why you think that's better - or weren't you aware that was the case?

That's how, when Bakewell vanished, he was able to delete his whole contract on Bitfunder (Ukyo subsequently restored it).

That's how Icedrill were able to amend their contract mid-IPO without any shareholder vote (the changes WERE all beneficial to investors).

That's how TF's fund there changed from a bond with a guaranteed value to a fund with no guarantee without any vote, advance warning or recall of outstanding units (it was done for a sensible reason and is well above the old guaranteed level anyway - but still should not have been possible to do unilaterally).

etc

Sometimes knowing the relevant facts is advisable before posting an opinion.

Changes to contracts on BTC-TC need burnside's approval once any shares have been sold.
For many (not all) securities on Bitfunder changes to contracts can be made by the issuer without any input or agreement from Ukyo.

You can tell which are which on Bitfinder by looking at the profile for the Security.  E.g. go to ActiveMining secuirty profile and you''ll see:

Issuer may Modify Description:   Yes, without vote.

That means Ken can change the Description (which is where what passes for a contract is) at any time however he likes.

In short : you are totally wrong.  The BTC-TC situation isn't ideal but the Bitfunder one is even worse.

[iCEBREAKER]

Sometimes knowing the relevant facts is advisable before posting an opinion.

Ain't got time for that.  Easier to spout potential fallacies and let others correct them as needed.

Heck of a job Sparky!

[nubbins]

The net mining revenue of this 20 TH/s will be divided over the shareholders until their total investment is recovered.

All mining revenue from this additional 20% will go to public shareholders until the initial investment of 0.65BTC/share is recovered in dividends.

Emphasis mine. I apologize if this has already been asked and answered, but you mention several times that dividends will be paid until shareholders' initial investment is recovered. Will shareholders continue to receive dividends after their initial investment is recovered? The quoted text seems to imply the opposite.

We will deploy 20 TH in September and all dividends will be divided among shareholders until the 0.65 BTC investment is recovered.

We will also deploy 10 GH/share in December and shareholders will continue to receive dividends of this deployment also after investment is recovered.

Again, emphasis mine.

This smells like a scam.

If I understand correctly:

1) Each share represents 2GH/s. This is the same performance/cost as USB block erupters @ 0.10 each.

2) You guys collect 55,833.1 BTC from suckers investors in your IPO.

3) In addition to your 35% fees, you will be keeping 17% of the IPO shares for yourselves. This 17% is in addition to your initial 35% skim. 17% of 65% is 11%, so in practice, shareholders will receive 54% of mining revenue, and you guys will receive 46% of mining revenue.

4) Even if you guys weren't skimming 46% of revenue from the 20TH/s, and even if difficulty STOPPED INCREASING, it would take almost exactly 365 days for you guys to pay back the IPO funds in dividends.

5) Given that you're taking almost half of mining revenue, and difficulty continues to rapidly increase, it's safe to assume that investors will NEVER see a full return of their IPO funds.

6) In December (3-4 months from now), you'll add another 100TH/s to your mining operation, and 54% of THIS hashing power will be paid out to shareholders in perpetuity, or until you guys get tired of running your scam.

TL;DR: you're looking for suckers to buy a mining farm for you.

As I mentioned earlier, this smells like a great big dirty:
SCAM

But I could be wrong.

[cryptx]

@nubbins - Before making bold statements like that, please make sure you read through the details.

- The first deployed 20TH in September and 100TH in December is for the first batch of 10k shares, that equals to 12GH per share.
- And no, we won't get 17% of the shares ourselves for free, we are also investing in this project by investing in the 20% additional hashrate for which public shareholders get dividend payouts first.
- The 35% reinvestment is to keep up with the growing difficulty and will be invested directly in additional mining hardware at below (future) retail prices. We did some calculations and with a reinvestment of 35% you get almost 3x more revenue in a period of 12 months than if you would with no reinvestment.

[ThickAsThieves]

Cryptx keeps saying the same response to you all repeatedly, ignoring specific questions. Why even consider investing in this?

If the design of the IPO is poor, and the offering is underwhelming, just move on, no?

Stop giving money to people you've no reason to trust, and whom make no convincing argument for being trusted.

[Vedran Yoweri]

But I could be wrong.

Yep, maybe. But for sure you're panic button is way too sensitive, relax dude.
Just don't invest.

But running around screaming makes u look like a fool.

[nubbins]

But I could be wrong.

Yep, maybe. But for sure you're panic button is way too sensitive, relax dude.
Just don't invest.

But running around screaming makes u look like a fool.

I'm neither panicked nor running around (haven't even gotten out of bed yet!), but I can understand how you might get confused by my liberal use of red. Reading comprehension is at an incredibly low level around here, so I wanted to make sure that people at least got the important points.

Obviously I'm not going to invest in this terrible idea, but thanks for the free advice.

If pointing out a scam makes me look like a fool, what does the guy with 13 posts on a 1-month-old account who says "you're" instead of "your" and "u" instead of "you" look like?

Why even consider investing in this?

+1. If you guys want, you can send your BTC to me instead of CryptX; I'll hold onto them for only 6 months before giving them back to you. Sounds like an even better deal, huh?

[Vedran Yoweri]

Okay, troll, ignore. (OTI)
 

[altoidmintz]

Cryptx keeps saying the same response to you all repeatedly, ignoring specific questions. Why even consider investing in this?

If the design of the IPO is poor, and the offering is underwhelming, just move on, no?

Stop giving money to people you've no reason to trust, and whom make no convincing argument for being trusted.

Bias much TAT?

It's called consistency. It's a sign that what they're saying is true.

If they kept changing the story THAT would be a possible red flag.

[altoidmintz]

Hey CryptX - fyi the details tab for PETA on btctc says "Outstanding 1758 / 100000 Issued"

Should say "Outstanding 1758 / 10000 Issued"

Unless I am mistaken I believe it's off by an order of 10

[CanOpener]

I am not a techie. How difficult is it to build customized PCB for the chips? What sort of delays can happen if the PCB's don't work right away? Can Burnin (?) produce the necessary PCB's (with your specs) quickly enough for this if something goes wrong? (I am not sure why CT wouldn't just provide the whole rig .... and is there enough economy of scale to produce PCB's just for this farm?)

[creativex]

Hey CryptX - fyi the details tab for PETA on btctc says "Outstanding 1758 / 100000 Issued"

Should say "Outstanding 1758 / 10000 Issued"

Unless I am mistaken I believe it's off by an order of 10

You are mistaken. This is what their contract says on that point:

CryptX Business Goals

CryptX’s primary goal is to provide opportunities for the public to invest in the Bitcoin mining business. The company will do this by offering shares of a PETA-MINE, a hosted mining project with a capacity of 1,000,000 GH/s of hashing power.

CryptX hereby offers an asset (its PETA-MINE) for shares in the profit of the company’s operation. CryptX will offer 100,000 shares, where every share represents 10 GH/s of hashing power.

The PETA-MINE’s hashing power will represent a percentage of the total hashing power of the entire Bitcoin network. This percentage will decrease whenever the hashing power of the network increases. To mitigate this issue, CryptX will reinvest 35% of the mine’s net revenue in additional hashing power. This means that as the PETA-MINE continues to grow, each share will, in turn, represent more hashing power. 65% of the net revenue will be paid to shareholders through a weekly dividend.

Deployment of the PETA-MINE will occur mid December, 2013.

Shareholder Information

CryptX will issue 83,333 out of 100,000 non-dilutable PETA-MINE shares at IPO. Each share represents 1/100,000 of the total hash power of the PETA-MINE, and shareholders will receive a weekly dividend payment every Friday. The PETA-MINE will deploy with a capacity of 1,000,000 GH/s where one share represents 1 GH/s in hashing power.

The company will issue shares in two batches:

The first batch will consist of 50,000 shares. CryptX will sell these shares through BTC-TC at a fixed price of 0.65 BTC per share. The sale of the first batch will close when all shares are sold.
The second batch will consist of the remaining 33,333 shares and will sell at a fixed price of 0.7 BTC per share. The sale of the second batch will close when all shares are sold.
All shares are entitled to an equal percentage of dividends and all shares sold in the IPO are considered voting shares. A total of 83,333 out of 100,000 shares will sell at IPO. No shares beyond these 100,000 will ever be sold or created in the future, so shares can never be diluted.

For every share sold, CryptX will invest in an additional 20% hashpower. All mining revenue from this additional 20% will go to public shareholders until the initial investment of 0.65BTC/share is recovered in dividends.

Their contract doesn't change on btct.co just because they edit a forum post.

https://btct.co/security/PETA-MINE

[stslimited]

just because a security offering is "legit" doesn't make it a good investment


a lot of people here seem to misunderstand that, debating the merits of the issuer than the contract itself

[cryptx]

Hey CryptX - fyi the details tab for PETA on btctc says "Outstanding 1758 / 100000 Issued"

Should say "Outstanding 1758 / 10000 Issued"

Unless I am mistaken I believe it's off by an order of 10

We are offering 100,000 shares in batches of 10,000 shares. The first batch of 10,000 shares is entitled to 20 TH in September and 10 GH/s per share in December.

[AM4Bitcoin]

I think every 10k shares represent 20 TH in september and 100 TH in december.
They just sell them in small batches because there wasnt enough demand for 80k+ shares.

[nubbins]

stuff

Yeah, I fail to see why anyone would choose to throw their money away on this "fund". So much doublespeak and confusing language.

I'm mildly surprised nobody else has taken issue with this point:

We will deploy 20 TH in September and all dividends will be divided among shareholders until the 0.65 BTC investment is recovered.

Or, to put another way: shareholders will give us an interest-free loan that will take us 2+ years to pay back.

[cryptx]

Let me be free to clarify some confusion.

We have divided our IPO in batches of 10,000 shares. For each batch a total of 120 TH will be deployed, 20 TH in September and 100 TH in December. 
After the shareholder recovers 0.65 BTC per share, each share will represent a minimum of 10 GH/s.

The moment we start hashing, we won’t issue a new batch.

[cryptx]

Here are some numbers:

20 TH of Bitfury : 400,000$
(400 GH/s = 8,000$)

100 TH of Cointerra : 700,000$
(2 TH/s = 14,000$)

Total cost (without VAT, Shipping or Taxes): 1,100,000$

Total retail cost for each share: 110$

[001sonkit]

Here are some numbers:

20 TH of Bitfury : 400,000$
(400 GH/s = 8,000$)

100 TH of Cointerra : 700,000$
(2 TH/s = 14,000$)

Total cost (without VAT, Shipping or Taxes): 1,100,000$

Total retail cost for each share: 110$

Before divident repaid
*65%=71.5USD=0.55BTC
18% overpriced


After repaid
*54%=59.4USD
BitAVG-gox: 130

50.6/130= 0.457
DONE 30% over priced

surely a good deal

[klee]

A notification has been posted to PETA-MINE.  You have received this email
because you own shares of PETA-MINE.

-----
CRYPTX EXPANDS BITFURY CHIP DEAL

September 4, 2013 – Brussels – CryptX, a company which specializes in Bitcoin mining, is pleased to announce it has secured a new purchase contract with Punin Design.

The purchase agreement has expanded to the delivery of 18,000 Bitfury chips (about 54 TH/s). Even more important is the early delivery date of 20 September 2013 for all chips. We will pick up the chips in Finland in person. This date will give CryptX an important lead start.

The agreement is a first milestone in the development of the PETA-MINE. The chips will be used in a first stage deployment of 20 TH/s.