Fees are killing/have killed Bitcoin.... it is sad but true.

[Anti-Cen]

Yes fees have killed it and sent me off down the road of looking at the Lightning Network
and for those of you who don't know yet it includes banking hubs and not just Bob and Alice
like they want you to believe https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2776719.msg28395400#msg28395400

the fees are 6 bucks for a median transaction

https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/

it says

The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 220 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 225 bytes, this results in a fee of 49,500 satoshis.

I am not a human calculator so how do you get from 49,500 to $6 and why don't they just show in
in the first place

[zlatan07]

Only a few years ago we had a growing number of shops here in Berlin that you were able to buy food and/or drinks from for bitcoin. Right now there are no more of these stores left. And most of the sellers I used to buy things from on the big marketplaces now refuse to trade bitcoin too and changed to etherium. I know for those people that think that bitcoin is the new gold it is not that bad but bitcoin was "released" to be something completely different. Right now bitcoin is no real crypto currency at all. Buy a coffee for 2,5 bucks and pay 25 bucks fee.... sure.......... In my opinion, bitcoin completely failed because of these fees and I sold every last satoshi and invested in other crypto currencies. Is there a single reason to stick to bitcoin? If yes, please feel free to tell me!

Yes, the price fee is high because Bitcoin price was boosted from last year and now every single market, pub, restaurant etc. who manage to have Bitcoin paying machine want to make a profit with fees. Just keep in mind some of this markets, pubs, restaurants pay fees to their country, so their logic is that you pay a fee for coffee, Bitcoin transaction and country fee.
So this provides them to make their profit without fees.

[Alns]

This is true.. but fees are not the only issue that are really killing bitcoin at the moment.

Take a look over the blocksizes at the moment, they are really a shit over the entire bitcoin system right now.

No offense, but the only thing that can make bitcoin go up again is just the Lightning network.

[Rath_]

When did you send you last transaction? What services do you use to estimate your fees? People are simply overpaying for their transactions. I have seen quite a few transactions which were confirmed with a fee 60 sat/b so it isn't a lot. Most of the exchanges and web wallets don't allow you to use your custom fee. There is no room for small transactions in Bitcoin these days so that is why we need Lightning Network which aims at making micro-transactions possible. Give it some time, don't overpay.

[Joel_Jantsen]

The fastest and cheapest transaction fee is currently 220 satoshis/byte, shown in green at the top.
For the median transaction size of 225 bytes, this results in a fee of 49,500 satoshis.

I am not a human calculator so how do you get from 49,500 to $6 and why don't they just show in
in the first place

Just so you know ,bitcoin is also a currency which has it's own standard ways of addressing it's smaller subsets that are agreed upon by the community.I don't think it takes a genius to just use a currency calculator. https://99bitcoins.com/satoshi-usd-converter/

Also most of the bitcoin wallets use sats as an input element to mention the transaction fees so just copy pasting that number becomes easier.

[Anti-Cen]

Is the lightning network going to be implemented at all? And if yes, then when and under what conditions?

You better hope NOT and this guy only scratches the surface of whats wrong with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g
or you can read the noddy version where Bob falls in Love with Alice and they play Ping-Pong
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/understanding-the-lightning-network-part-completing-the-puzzle-and-closing-the-channel-1466178980/
Here is the white-paper https://lightning.network/lightning-network-paper.pdf
But if you want my version then see my post here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2776719.msg28395400#msg28395400

Notice the abuse I get, don't shoot the postman  

[Anti-Cen]

Just so you know ,bitcoin is also a currency which has it's own standard ways of addressing it's smaller subsets that are agreed upon by the community.I don't think it takes a genius to just use a currency calculator. https://99bitcoins.com/satoshi-usd-converter/

But back in the real world people work with whole numbers and they all know that more or less a
GBP=EUR=USD and this is what 99% of people get paid in and it does not take a genius to see
that Bitcoin has become your religion.

I put real money into the machine so fees shown like that are fine with me

[1NV3ST0NM3]

Only a few years ago we had a growing number of shops here in berlin that you were able to buy food and/or drinks from for bitcoin. Right now there are no more of these stores left. And most of the sellers I used to buy things from on the big marketplaces now refuse to trade bitcoin too and changed to etherium. I know for those people that think that bitcoin is the new gold it is not that bad but bitcoin was "released" to be something completely different. Right now bitcoin is no real crypto currency at all. Buy a coffee for 2,5 bucks and pay 25 bucks fee.... sure.......... In my opinion bitcoin completely failed because of these fees and I sold every last satoshi and invested in other crypto currencies. Is there a single reason to stick to bitcoin? If yes, please feel free to tell me!

The huge fees is getting its solution I think its the chronic disease of FUD's that is killing bitcoin in general. If we see as a whole today there are lot of people involved in crypto trading so just a slightest of a rumour is more than enough to burn the whole market these days. Fees problems is getting solutions like the lightning network and segwit. Segwit itself has been good at removing high fees problems.

[coinsontheroad]

You said it man. Bitcoin's sole use-case right now is a store of value. That won't change unless scaling is fixed.

What will the store of value use case alone do for bitcoin's price? Who knows? Maybe prevent it from rising back toward 20K levels, maybe level it out at 10kish or fall even lower.

[gentlemand]

What will the store of value use case alone do for bitcoin's price? Who knows? Maybe prevent it from rising back toward 20K levels, maybe level it out at 10kish or fall even lower.

It will drive the price fucking insane. Even if fees were much lower, no one is going to use an appreciating asset to buy their toilet paper. For better or worse Bitcoin is being treated like an asset by most people and the upside for that is ludicrous still.

I agree that fees do make it impractical in general for pure utility use such as moving it, but merchant acceptance has always been a pointless, if convenient for some, sideshow. It's not the main game at this point in time.

[StevenS]

there making to much money why would the miners change things .

This is a common misconception. Miners have no control over: 1. The exchange rate (price) of Bitcoin; or (2) The fees.

So who has control? The answer to both questions is: "The market."

The actual fees are set by the people who create transactions. That is, the people who send bitcoin, meaning you and me. Perhaps not completely, since we use wallets, and most wallets are very "helpful" in calculating the appropriate fee. The publishers of the wallet software could have more influence on fees, but only when they work together, because if everyone else is sending a higher fee, then your transaction will never get confirmed.

[Schmolke]

Is the lightning network going to be implemented at all? And if yes, then when and under what conditions?

You better hope NOT and this guy only scratches the surface of whats wrong with it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYHFrf5ci_g

.......

Notice the abuse I get, don't shoot the postman  

Sadly that is exactly the way I'm thinking about the lightning network. For me it's not a solution it's the final nail in the coffin.

[Joel_Jantsen]

But back in the real world people work with whole numbers and they all know that more or less a
GBP=EUR=USD and this is what 99% of people get paid in and it does not take a genius to see
that Bitcoin has become your religion.

Back in the real world people don't use bitcoin and nerd around with the network fees they're not sure about.Comparing pigs to cows are we now ? Not hard to tell you're delusioned by the government created paper which is ruling everything around you.

I put real money into the machine so fees shown like that are fine with me

No one asked you to do that.They don't work that way.

[blueman44]

Definetely an issue worth solving.
For now, im holding and trading only the extreme price changes.

They need to fix this asap before all this shit gets out of control.
It has been more than 10 days since i do not use bitcoin because i do not want to spend more than $15 just for the fees, but yes, it is innevitable after all.
Anyway, they are not soooo expensive.

Same as you.  I am keeping hold of what I mine to to minimise transaction fees.  Driving me nuts as I want to buy other alt coins.  Whole point of why I mine in the 1st place.

[Cryptoisreal]

Transaction fee is a battle on his own which bitcoinhave to fight otherwise it spells a doom for BtC

[gentlemand]

Sadly that is exactly the way I'm thinking about the lightning network. For me it's not a solution it's the final nail in the coffin.

Why not wait until it's fully up and running before making a judgement? It could be everything everyone ever hoped for an more. It could be a load of shit. There's no point in declaring anything, like many a pinhead here does on a daily basis, until it's fully operational and fleshed out.

[myhometalk]

I don't think that you need to talk in the past tense.
I'm sure there are people working on this as we speak.
I know it's annoying, but it won't be like this forever and bitcoin won't die.

[myhometalk]

Sadly that is exactly the way I'm thinking about the lightning network. For me it's not a solution it's the final nail in the coffin.

Why not wait until it's fully up and running before making a judgement? It could be everything everyone ever hoped for an more. It could be a load of shit. There's no point in declaring anything, like many a pinhead here does on a daily basis, until it's fully operational and fleshed out.

Does anyone know when this lightning network will be implemented? Or an approximation at least?

[bitfornewbs]

Only a few years ago we had a growing number of shops here in berlin that you were able to buy food and/or drinks from for bitcoin. Right now there are no more of these stores left. And most of the sellers I used to buy things from on the big marketplaces now refuse to trade bitcoin too and changed to etherium. I know for those people that think that bitcoin is the new gold it is not that bad but bitcoin was "released" to be something completely different. Right now bitcoin is no real crypto currency at all. Buy a coffee for 2,5 bucks and pay 25 bucks fee.... sure.......... In my opinion bitcoin completely failed because of these fees and I sold every last satoshi and invested in other crypto currencies. Is there a single reason to stick to bitcoin? If yes, please feel free to tell me!

Yes, really worth taking a look for. Every transactions requires over the usual fees which really can be considered a bad thing especially for us small traders/ transactors. With this current issue, bitcoin will find it really hard to move on and I am sure that this will continue for months or even years to solve.

[franky1]

Still High, but is going down

Falling fees for now doesn't really cut it. Either Coinbase could decide to up what they're paying ridiculously again or miners might decide to start spamming. High fees are a permanent addition unless Bitcoin's in a fallow period. Even if there is one if any merchant acceptance comes back it may well be extinguished by another period of high fees.

its not miner spam.
its mixers spam