Bitcoin Foundation should file a lawsuit against BFL

[Dalkore]

Not only should the Bitcoin foundation not do this, they couldn't if they wanted.  There is a concept of standing in legal matters.  The Bitcoin foundation has suffered no damages, it has no standing to file suit.  Period.  It would be instantly throw out of court on motion and would make the Foundation a laughing stock in the legal community.

I have never said they should take "legal" action, there are other methods they could use to affect change at BFL (obviously only if BFL is willing to listen to suggestions).  Also I would mention they do have in-house legal counsel (Patrick) and like the EFF could give assistance to members that have suffered damages.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Not only should the Bitcoin foundation not do this, they couldn't if they wanted.  There is a concept of standing in legal matters.  The Bitcoin foundation has suffered no damages, it has no standing to file suit.  Period.  It would be instantly throw out of court on motion and would make the Foundation a laughing stock in the legal community.

I have never said they should take "legal" action, there are other methods they could use to affect change at BFL (obviously only if BFL is willing to listen to suggestions).  Also I would mention they do have in-house legal counsel (Patrick) and like the EFF could give assistance to members that have suffered damages.

Sorry I wasn't clear.  I was responding to the OP who stated "Bitcoin Foundation should file a lawsuit against BFL".

[Dalkore]

The fact that you (apparently) honestly believe that this was some sort of scam from it's inception, with a complicated, methodical and intricate plot to dissemination misinformation and advertising is why no rational answer will satisfy.

First off, regardless of if any of those observations are true, you being a representative of the company would never admit it.  Why waste our time there, you are paid to not hold any of those views regardless of validity of lack there of.  


But let me take just this one comment above.

Response: Actually no, I never thought it was a scam.  From your FPGA line I knew BFL had the technical competency to develop an ASIC chip.  I just want to make that clear, I never have said BFL was a scam and I actually had equipment on order.

Here has been my issued and it ties into and fits with your business model from my perspective.  I have been around the block and I know how many dominate players act.  It is about trying to corner the ASIC market and be a monopoly.  I do hold and still hold that BFL intentionally announced their ASIC line with grossly overstated delivery schedules with mostly the sole reason to chill competition in the space.  I support this chilling effect by the fact you not only gave a timeline that was 10 months off the mark but also the specifications you gave made it best in class just like your FPGA line.   With the large upfront costs that go into developing an ASIC, if you would of actually delivered on time, it would of greatly reduced any ongoing competition because of BFL ability to raise the difficulty level faster than anyone else so that if you could continue to do that you would push people to develop on increasing more expensive chip sizes.  

You may want to mention that my point is valid by saying, "we have tons of competition now" but I would then point out the feeling many people had last summer when we were sure ASIC would be rolling out in Oct 2012.  Only because Avalon decided that they would do it no matter what and with your slipped delivery schedule allowed others to feel they had a chance to develop.   I know this directly because I have talked to people involved with ASIC projects, this is first hand knowledge.

Every other claim is quite small compared to this one.  You may dismiss this but I wouldn't do it to fast.  Its real and I know many very level people that hold the same feeling.  I am quite rational, ask anyone who has met me in person and if you did you would know it to be true.   At the point, I digress and will look for a response either directly or in private.  I am tired of talking about BFL, you guys will either change or not and people will either support or not.  It doesn't matter at this point, personally I hope you do change for the better because really want to embrace BFL, really.  You are part of our community love or hate and that will not change.

Thank you for your time Josh.


Cheers,
Dalkore  

[Dalkore]

Not only should the Bitcoin foundation not do this, they couldn't if they wanted.  There is a concept of standing in legal matters.  The Bitcoin foundation has suffered no damages, it has no standing to file suit.  Period.  It would be instantly throw out of court on motion and would make the Foundation a laughing stock in the legal community.

I have never said they should take "legal" action, there are other methods they could use to affect change at BFL (obviously only if BFL is willing to listen to suggestions).  Also I would mention they do have in-house legal counsel (Patrick) and like the EFF could give assistance to members that have suffered damages.

Sorry I wasn't clear.  I was responding to the OP who stated "Bitcoin Foundation should file a lawsuit against BFL".

All good D&T, we can always have a beer or scotch together.  I always enjoy your writing.  You're a good member of our community.

[Inaba]

First off, regardless of if any of those observations are true, you being a representative of the company would never admit it.  Why waste our time there, you are paid to not hold any of those views regardless of validity of lack there of.  

On the contrary, I started out as a miner and was, while not equally skeptical of BFL in the beginning as some people,  indeed quite skeptical.  I have been a big open source advocate and support the "community" both in and out side of bitcoin. I am on the side of the miners, not on the side of business.  Believe it or not, I advocate the miners perspective inside the company here.  However, with that position I also have to weigh that against the best interests of the business and find a balance that both sides can live with (note, I do not say are happy with.  As someone said, though I can't recall to whom I should attribute the quote, Twain perhaps and I'm paraphrasing regardless "A successful negotiation is where both parties leave unhappy.") and allow the business to continue to function and grow.  

I suspect I might be able to anticipate your response to this, but perhaps not... so I'll leave it there for now.

Here has been my issued and it ties into and fits with your business model from my perspective.  I have been around the block and I know how many dominate players act.  It is about trying to corner the ASIC market and be a monopoly.  I do hold and still hold that BFL intentionally announced their ASIC line with grossly overstated delivery schedules with mostly the sole reason to chill competition in the space.  I support this chilling effect by the fact you not only gave a timeline that was 10 months off the mark but also the specifications you gave made it best in class just like your FPGA line.   With the large upfront costs that go into developing an ASIC, if you would of actually delivered on time, it would of greatly reduced any ongoing competition because of BFL ability to raise the difficulty level faster than anyone else so that if you could continue to do that you would push people to develop on increasing more expensive chip sizes.

Ok, lets grant your position for a minute as being true and look at it from that perspective.  As a business entity acting in it's own best interest, why would a business not do that if it were a way to ensure it's own survival?  If that were an effective tactic (and you say it is, so I'll take your word on it), to not use it and allow competition to consume your marketshare would be incredibly stupid.  Why would you expect a business to act in a manner that is directly in conflict with it's own continued existence?  That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The reality is, though, that the timeline and specs that were offered were believed to be true at the time.  If I were around at the time, I would have pushed for a more extended timeline with more flexibility, just like I am pushing for the Monarch now.  I am not the final say in this company by any means, my word carries weight but it does not carry the day when that day ends.  I am an advocate for the miner here within BFL, but I'm also aware of the needs of business, which most, if not all, of the detractors are completely oblivious to or just do not want to acknowledge.  

You speak of change, and that's great.  But the cost of that change is the insolvency at worst or severely deteriorating business.  There is no business in this market that can operate in the altruistic manner you appear to want.  BFL is not a charity or a non-profit organization, it's a for profit business.  Acting against that would be nonsensicle and once people finally come to accept and understand that bitcoin is now a business and not some pie-in-the-sky dream of libertarians (much to their chagrin, I'm sure), perhaps the fervor and irrationality may die down a bit, but that day is probably a long way off.  But just because the world isn't the way you want the world to be (I'm using the royal "you" here, not you specifically) is not an excuse for you to be an asshat on the internet.  It's those people I do not care for or respect.

[k9quaint]

You speak of change, and that's great.  But the cost of that change is the insolvency at worst or severely deteriorating business.  There is no business in this market that can operate in the altruistic manner you appear to want.  BFL is not a charity or a non-profit organization, it's a for profit business.  Acting against that would be nonsensicle and once people finally come to accept and understand that bitcoin is now a business and not some pie-in-the-sky dream of libertarians (much to their chagrin, I'm sure), perhaps the fervor and irrationality may die down a bit, but that day is probably a long way off.

I suspected the costs of doing business properly would drive BFL onto the rocks, at best crippling them.

But just because the world isn't the way you want the world to be (I'm using the royal "you" here, not you specifically) is not an excuse for you to be an asshat on the internet.  It's those people I do not care for or respect.

I think it is for precisely that reason that nobody respects you and so many believe that you are running a long-con at BFL. More posts like the previous one (with content and a point about the BFL business) and less of the "monumental assholes" & "douchbags" posts would perhaps undo some of that reasoning.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

First off, regardless of if any of those observations are true, you being a representative of the company would never admit it.  Why waste our time there, you are paid to not hold any of those views regardless of validity of lack there of.  

On the contrary, I started out as a miner and was, while not equally skeptical of BFL in the beginning as some people,  indeed quite skeptical.  I have been a big open source advocate and support the "community" both in and out side of bitcoin. I am on the side of the miners, not on the side of business.  Believe it or not, I advocate the miners perspective inside the company here.  However, with that position I also have to weigh that against the best interests of the business and find a balance that both sides can live with (note, I do not say are happy with.  As someone said, though I can't recall to whom I should attribute the quote, Twain perhaps and I'm paraphrasing regardless "A successful negotiation is where both parties leave unhappy.") and allow the business to continue to function and grow.  

I suspect I might be able to anticipate your response to this, but perhaps not... so I'll leave it there for now.

Here has been my issued and it ties into and fits with your business model from my perspective.  I have been around the block and I know how many dominate players act.  It is about trying to corner the ASIC market and be a monopoly.  I do hold and still hold that BFL intentionally announced their ASIC line with grossly overstated delivery schedules with mostly the sole reason to chill competition in the space.  I support this chilling effect by the fact you not only gave a timeline that was 10 months off the mark but also the specifications you gave made it best in class just like your FPGA line.   With the large upfront costs that go into developing an ASIC, if you would of actually delivered on time, it would of greatly reduced any ongoing competition because of BFL ability to raise the difficulty level faster than anyone else so that if you could continue to do that you would push people to develop on increasing more expensive chip sizes.

Ok, lets grant your position for a minute as being true and look at it from that perspective.  As a business entity acting in it's own best interest, why would a business not do that if it were a way to ensure it's own survival?  If that were an effective tactic (and you say it is, so I'll take your word on it), to not use it and allow competition to consume your marketshare would be incredibly stupid.  Why would you expect a business to act in a manner that is directly in conflict with it's own continued existence?  That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The reality is, though, that the timeline and specs that were offered were believed to be true at the time.  If I were around at the time, I would have pushed for a more extended timeline with more flexibility, just like I am pushing for the Monarch now.  I am not the final say in this company by any means, my word carries weight but it does not carry the day when that day ends.  I am an advocate for the miner here within BFL, but I'm also aware of the needs of business, which most, if not all, of the detractors are completely oblivious to or just do not want to acknowledge.  

You speak of change, and that's great.  But the cost of that change is the insolvency at worst or severely deteriorating business.  There is no business in this market that can operate in the altruistic manner you appear to want.  BFL is not a charity or a non-profit organization, it's a for profit business.  Acting against that would be nonsensicle and once people finally come to accept and understand that bitcoin is now a business and not some pie-in-the-sky dream of libertarians (much to their chagrin, I'm sure), perhaps the fervor and irrationality may die down a bit, but that day is probably a long way off.  But just because the world isn't the way you want the world to be (I'm using the royal "you" here, not you specifically) is not an excuse for you to be an asshat on the internet.  It's those people I do not care for or respect.

Said the guy that I just proved to, showing that Josh/BFL lies.

Oh?  Care to provide a single shred of proof that I've lied?  There's not a single person here that's been able to back up this claim, yet I've demonstrated it through your own posts multiple times that you're a liar.

l

Who has deleted posts before?  Certainly not me.

Do you really want to take that position, BFL_Josh, also AKA <someone else>?

Perhaps BFL_Josh has never altered history. But <someone else> absolutely has in the context of BFL communications.
(Search for "memory hole" and folks can find one of my follow-ups where this happened.)

--

I remember what I've read. And I've read all the BFL related threads starting with the Fall 2011 BFL one's.

I recognize that you're new to BFL corporate membership, but there is a *lot* of history to overcome before BFL has a good reputation.

Absolutely I want to take that position.  That accusation is pretty serious, please provide a link where I strategically deleted any information I've posted as either Inaba or BFL_Josh.  Once again, people are acting like it's a secret that I have two accounts; It's not.  In my capacity as a representative of BFL, I post as BFL_Josh, for other things, I post as Inaba.

But in both cases, I don't hide what I write or strategically delete/alter anything.  I've been accused of that in the past by certain members of this forum, but when the chips were down it was shown those individuals lied and any accusations they made were completely fabricated just to support their weak and untenable position.  There's a feature of the forum if you use the default skin where it says when the message was last edited... so please be careful what you accuse me of, because I can prove you wrong if you are just making things up.  If there some place that I strategically deleted something, please point it out as I have no recollection of it and it would be an error on my part.

BTW, that guy I mention yesterday... you know... the one that was so kind to send BFL bitcoins for a product... Well, it looks like the question he asked yesterday has yet to be addressed my you, or anybody else over a t BFL.

To refresh your memory, it's a post on BFL's forum that I'm in reference to, shown below and linked here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/monarch-discussion/4533-so-bfl-who-first-batch-monarch.html#post54429

So, BFL, who is in the first batch for the Monarch

The other companies point when a batch is sold out so that noone could buy a product that is actually ... sold out. But you no. Why? I transferred my 2 singles to 2 monarchs on 18.08 in the morning. Because you launched the pre-orders on Saturday and you didn't accept Paypal and I actually need your product to make such amount of btc to pay for your product but I still don't have neither of your products ( it sounds like catch 22...) I couldn't pay with BTC. And because you announced it on the early week-end no bank wire was possible (at least in Europe). Even the online bank transfers start on Monday. So I made the payment on Monday. You received the money 2-3 day later, my status is changed to processing and I have an order date of 18.08.

So my humble question is - am I in the first batch? I accepted the Agreement between you and me and I accepted "finally", "irreversible", without no refund and without possible future cancellation (the cancel option was added later) to transfer my money to the monarch. I think that almost 3000$ is enough for an earnest. I paid the rest of the sum on the first possible day - 19.08 - Monday. There was no other possible faster way to pay. So can I believe that I am in the first batch? Because it would look surrealistic if you say that the whole batch is sold out on the first day...

I'm well aware that to you, Josh, $5,000 isn't a very large sum, thus your probable reason for not yet addressing the loyal BFL customer, but maybe, just maybe, that $5,000 meant a whole lot more to him.

Please see what you can do for that guy. Don't you, COO of BF Labs Inc., owe him at least that much respect? At the very least, tell him to post over here on this forum, similar to what you told that other guy yesterday on BFL's forum. We all loved that one!

Then again, what the fuck do I know about business. For all we know, the business practice you/BFL practice is the new norm, hence you kindly coming here to learnt us monumental assholes, of which we kindly say, "Thank you, Josh Zerlan, for allowing us to hear your sacred words. Hollowed be thy name!"

[Syke]

Ok, lets grant your position for a minute as being true and look at it from that perspective.  As a business entity acting in it's own best interest, why would a business not do that if it were a way to ensure it's own survival?

Because there's a difference between "competition" and "unfair competition". Lying about things such as FCC certification to eliminate competitors falls under the "unfair competition" category.

[Inaba]

You speak of change, and that's great.  But the cost of that change is the insolvency at worst or severely deteriorating business.  There is no business in this market that can operate in the altruistic manner you appear to want.  BFL is not a charity or a non-profit organization, it's a for profit business.  Acting against that would be nonsensicle and once people finally come to accept and understand that bitcoin is now a business and not some pie-in-the-sky dream of libertarians (much to their chagrin, I'm sure), perhaps the fervor and irrationality may die down a bit, but that day is probably a long way off.

I suspected the costs of doing business properly would drive BFL onto the rocks, at best crippling them.

But just because the world isn't the way you want the world to be (I'm using the royal "you" here, not you specifically) is not an excuse for you to be an asshat on the internet.  It's those people I do not care for or respect.

I think it is for precisely that reason that nobody respects you and so many believe that you are running a long-con at BFL. More posts like the previous one (with content and a point about the BFL business) and less of the "monumental assholes" & "douchbags" posts would perhaps undo some of that reasoning.

Like I said, stop being an asshole and a douchebag and you'll get the same respect in  return (although you'll have a long, hard road, given your history).  Once again, you're a perfect example of the root of the problem.  You, quite literally, are the cause of the problem.  You find it impossible to approach a situation with rationality and reasonability, instead immediately launching into an adversarial, caustic tone.  Literally your first sentence in response is an insult, and that's why you get what you get and I have zero respect for you.  I very, very seriously doubt you'll find very many people that disagree with the fact that if you and the rest of the anti-BFL crew stopped posting the same crap over and over on the forums that the placed would be much, much nicer to discuss bitcoin.  But as it is now, every single thread you post in turns into a mire of crap.  I avoid some threads all together and yet the thread turns into a junkpile the minute you start posting, that should tell you something.

[Xian01]

Once again, you're a perfect example of the root of the problem. 

 No, Josh. Your documented history of "mistakes" and contempt for these forums is the root of the problem.

 We are white blood cells responding to your infection of our host.

[k9quaint]

You speak of change, and that's great.  But the cost of that change is the insolvency at worst or severely deteriorating business.  There is no business in this market that can operate in the altruistic manner you appear to want.  BFL is not a charity or a non-profit organization, it's a for profit business.  Acting against that would be nonsensicle and once people finally come to accept and understand that bitcoin is now a business and not some pie-in-the-sky dream of libertarians (much to their chagrin, I'm sure), perhaps the fervor and irrationality may die down a bit, but that day is probably a long way off.

I suspected the costs of doing business properly would drive BFL onto the rocks, at best crippling them.

But just because the world isn't the way you want the world to be (I'm using the royal "you" here, not you specifically) is not an excuse for you to be an asshat on the internet.  It's those people I do not care for or respect.

I think it is for precisely that reason that nobody respects you and so many believe that you are running a long-con at BFL. More posts like the previous one (with content and a point about the BFL business) and less of the "monumental assholes" & "douchbags" posts would perhaps undo some of that reasoning.

Like I said, stop being an asshole and a douchebag and you'll get the same respect in  return (although you'll have a long, hard road, given your history).  Once again, you're a perfect example of the root of the problem.  You, quite literally, are the cause of the problem.  You find it impossible to approach a situation with rationality and reasonability, instead immediately launching into an adversarial, caustic tone.  Literally your first sentence in response is an insult, and that's why you get what you get and I have zero respect for you.  I very, very seriously doubt you'll find very many people that disagree with the fact that if you and the rest of the anti-BFL crew stopped posting the same crap over and over on the forums that the placed would be much, much nicer to discuss bitcoin.  But as it is now, every single thread you post in turns into a mire of crap.  I avoid some threads all together and yet the thread turns into a junkpile the minute you start posting, that should tell you something.

You seem to think the burden of proof is on us. It isn't. It is on you. I am not trying to sell 28nm ASIC dreams for $5K a pop.
You seem to think we have no history, that every post is starting fresh. I gave BFL (and by extension you) 6 months of being late and tossing around insults on these forums before I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt. The fake shipping of the April 1st unit to dodge a bet was the last straw.

This place would be much nicer place to talk about Bitcoin if BFL refunded people's money who asked for it, and if BFL shipped people their merchandise like they promised they would, and if the BFL rep would stop calling people names and instead live up to his responsibilities. This place would be much nicer if BFL actually had answers for questions, instead of insults.

Avalon is having similar problems delivering (not a year late yet), but you don't see the forum overrun with Avalon hate threads because Yifu doesn't show up here day after day and laugh at his customers and call them assholes and douchebags.

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
You have been running into assholes all day long every day for a year straight.

[Inaba]

You seem to think the burden of proof is on us. It isn't. It is on you. I am not trying to sell 28nm ASIC dreams for $5K a pop.
You seem to think we have no history, that every post is starting fresh. I gave BFL (and by extension you) 6 months of being late and tossing around insults on these forums before I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt. The fake shipping of the April 1st unit to dodge a bet was the last straw.

Burden of what proof?  Do you even know what that term means?  The fact that you're slinging it around here seems to indicate you're using it as a buzzword.  What on earth are you possibly referring to?

This place would be much nicer place to talk about Bitcoin if BFL refunded people's money who asked for it, and if BFL shipped people their merchandise like they promised they would, and if the BFL rep would stop calling people names and instead live up to his responsibilities. This place would be much nicer if BFL actually had answers for questions, instead of insults.

Apparently you don't understand the problem, which is, in itself, the problem (or one of them, anyway).  People are tired of seeing the same crap posted by you and others, over and over.  Most of it's irrational, fictional or exaggerated.  A small percentage of it is legitimate, which is fine, but repeating it over and over, regardless of it's legitimacy is annoying to basically everyone but you.  If you stopped posting today, and never posted again, the only thing that would happen is the forum quality would improve.  That's what I'm saying, you bring nothing of value to the forum with your mind numbing postings repeating the same things over and over.  There's no new discourse when you are around, anything new that starts to brew in a thread, you post in, and it quickly degenerates.  Do you seriously deny this?  Threads I don't even participate in suffer from this, so it's not *me* that's wrecking the threads, it's *you*.

Avalon is having similar problems delivering (not a year late yet), but you don't see the forum overrun with Avalon hate threads because Yifu doesn't show up here day after day and laugh at his customers and call them assholes and douchebags.

I don't laugh at the customers or call them assholes or douchebags unless they start out by being an asshole or douchebag.  Once again (how many times do I have to point this out until you get it through your head?) - if you start out with respect, you get respect in return.  If you start out as an asshole, well you get what you deserve. Stop being an asshole is the solution.

[k9quaint]

You seem to think the burden of proof is on us. It isn't. It is on you. I am not trying to sell 28nm ASIC dreams for $5K a pop.
You seem to think we have no history, that every post is starting fresh. I gave BFL (and by extension you) 6 months of being late and tossing around insults on these forums before I stopped giving them the benefit of the doubt. The fake shipping of the April 1st unit to dodge a bet was the last straw.

Burden of what proof?  Do you even know what that term means?  The fact that you're slinging it around here seems to indicate you're using it as a buzzword.  What on earth are you possibly referring to?

You have to convince customers to buy your product. You must convince them that you will deliver on your promises. You are the one who has something to prove. I can just sit here. I don't have to keep customers from filing lawsuits against me. Thus, it is your burden, not mine.
Also, wikipedia you nitwit. The philosophical burden of proof or onus (probandi) is the obligation on a party in an epistemic dispute to provide sufficient warrant for their position.

This place would be much nicer place to talk about Bitcoin if BFL refunded people's money who asked for it, and if BFL shipped people their merchandise like they promised they would, and if the BFL rep would stop calling people names and instead live up to his responsibilities. This place would be much nicer if BFL actually had answers for questions, instead of insults.

Apparently you don't understand the problem, which is, in itself, the problem (or one of them, anyway).  People are tired of seeing the same crap posted by you and others, over and over.  Most of it's irrational, fictional or exaggerated.  A small percentage of it is legitimate, which is fine, but repeating it over and over, regardless of it's legitimacy is annoying to basically everyone but you.  If you stopped posting today, and never posted again, the only thing that would happen is the forum quality would improve.  That's what I'm saying, you bring nothing of value to the forum with your mind numbing postings repeating the same things over and over.  There's no new discourse when you are around, anything new that starts to brew in a thread, you post in, and it quickly degenerates.  Do you seriously deny this?  Threads I don't even participate in suffer from this, so it's not *me* that's wrecking the threads, it's *you*.

Perhaps if BFL clears their backlog, there would be far fewer angry customers who come here looking for answers. There wouldn't be someone new every day saying "BFL won't refund my money" then I wouldn't have to post the PSA for how to get refunds from BFL. BFL keeps failing to deliver, the anger gets worse. You have the nerve to blame the people you are failing for seeking answers here? Of course you do. You are unprofessional and seem to take delight in frustrating your customer base.

Avalon is having similar problems delivering (not a year late yet), but you don't see the forum overrun with Avalon hate threads because Yifu doesn't show up here day after day and laugh at his customers and call them assholes and douchebags.

I don't laugh at the customers or call them assholes or douchebags unless they start out by being an asshole or douchebag.  Once again (how many times do I have to point this out until you get it through your head?) - if you start out with respect, you get respect in return.  If you start out as an asshole, well you get what you deserve. Stop being an asshole is the solution.

That is what your customers are giving you. Most of your posts here are of you being an asshole to somebody, and now you are getting it back 100x. Karma.
Also, you seem to think it is funny for the representative of a company to insult customers and ignore questions. You claim it is in BFL's best interests to annoy the "monumental assholes of bitcointalk". You caused this problem, and if you did your job, the problem would go away.

New angry BFL customers arrive here every day. Asking the old ones to shutup and bite the pillow isn't going to solve anything for you. It will just buy you some time.

[Inaba]

You are truly a lost cause, heh.

[Dalkore]

First off, regardless of if any of those observations are true, you being a representative of the company would never admit it.  Why waste our time there, you are paid to not hold any of those views regardless of validity of lack there of.  

On the contrary, I started out as a miner and was, while not equally skeptical of BFL in the beginning as some people,  indeed quite skeptical.  I have been a big open source advocate and support the "community" both in and out side of bitcoin. I am on the side of the miners, not on the side of business.  Believe it or not, I advocate the miners perspective inside the company here.  However, with that position I also have to weigh that against the best interests of the business and find a balance that both sides can live with (note, I do not say are happy with.  As someone said, though I can't recall to whom I should attribute the quote, Twain perhaps and I'm paraphrasing regardless "A successful negotiation is where both parties leave unhappy.") and allow the business to continue to function and grow.  

I suspect I might be able to anticipate your response to this, but perhaps not... so I'll leave it there for now.

Here has been my issued and it ties into and fits with your business model from my perspective.  I have been around the block and I know how many dominate players act.  It is about trying to corner the ASIC market and be a monopoly.  I do hold and still hold that BFL intentionally announced their ASIC line with grossly overstated delivery schedules with mostly the sole reason to chill competition in the space.  I support this chilling effect by the fact you not only gave a timeline that was 10 months off the mark but also the specifications you gave made it best in class just like your FPGA line.   With the large upfront costs that go into developing an ASIC, if you would of actually delivered on time, it would of greatly reduced any ongoing competition because of BFL ability to raise the difficulty level faster than anyone else so that if you could continue to do that you would push people to develop on increasing more expensive chip sizes.

Ok, lets grant your position for a minute as being true and look at it from that perspective.  As a business entity acting in it's own best interest, why would a business not do that if it were a way to ensure it's own survival?  If that were an effective tactic (and you say it is, so I'll take your word on it), to not use it and allow competition to consume your marketshare would be incredibly stupid.  Why would you expect a business to act in a manner that is directly in conflict with it's own continued existence?  That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The reality is, though, that the timeline and specs that were offered were believed to be true at the time.  If I were around at the time, I would have pushed for a more extended timeline with more flexibility, just like I am pushing for the Monarch now.  I am not the final say in this company by any means, my word carries weight but it does not carry the day when that day ends.  I am an advocate for the miner here within BFL, but I'm also aware of the needs of business, which most, if not all, of the detractors are completely oblivious to or just do not want to acknowledge.  

You speak of change, and that's great.  But the cost of that change is the insolvency at worst or severely deteriorating business.  There is no business in this market that can operate in the altruistic manner you appear to want.  BFL is not a charity or a non-profit organization, it's a for profit business.  Acting against that would be nonsensical and once people finally come to accept and understand that bitcoin is now a business and not some pie-in-the-sky dream of libertarians (much to their chagrin, I'm sure), perhaps the fervor and irrationality may die down a bit, but that day is probably a long way off.  But just because the world isn't the way you want the world to be (I'm using the royal "you" here, not you specifically) is not an excuse for you to be an asshat on the internet.  It's those people I do not care for or respect.

If it is altruistic to ask for companies, especially in underdeveloped markets, to refrain from these tactics then I don't know how to respond.  I rest my case.  Thank you for taking time to write a thoughtful response and in the bigger picture, you have shown some class here.  Thank you for taking a second to step in my shoes and see it from my perspective.  

Yeah I do have a more idealistic vision than many but until we start holding ourselves to a higher standard, overall it will reduce innovation and shut out start-ups that truly add the most value and creativity over time.  

Best of luck and I do hope your keep the miner alive in BFL and ignore the ass-hats and lead by example.  

Cheers,
Dalkore

[Xian01]

You are truly a lost cause, heh.

 Don't blame many of us for not being susceptible to your attempts at Jedi-Mind-Trickery.

 The force runs pretty strong here.

[Red_Wolf_2]

You are truly a lost cause, heh.

 Don't blame many of us for not being susceptible to your attempts at Jedi-Mind-Trickery.

 The force runs pretty strong here.

Well, I'm now picturing Xian01 as looking like Watto... ("Mind tricks don't work on me; only money.")

[User705]

I don't think the foundation has grounds for a lawsuit but singles/mini rig buyers should.  It's now gotten to the ridiculous point where jalapeños shipped are from Feb '13 orders while singles/rigs are still in July '12.  As a completely interchangeable product as evidenced by the fact that a 1.5TH mini rig was broken up into x3 500gh and statements that a 60gh or 30gh orders hash rates will be honored I can't understand how it's justifiable that a customer not only has to wait but was supposed to guess that ordering a bunch of little products would be delivered months before a single unit.