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Author Topic: Cashing out as a UK citizen abroad and taxation  (Read 94 times)
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January 26, 2018, 10:04:06 PM
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I've held for a few years and want to cash out a large amount. Right now I'm in Singapore which i have been for about two weeks as i am traveling and don't actually intend to return to the UK for a prolonged period for a long time. I've learned that here in SG, as well as Malaysia and also a few EU countries, that cashing out crypto does not make you liable to capital gains tax like in the UK. any taxation is minimal.

would anyone know more about this and what I am liable to back home if i were to cash out abroad? Its a nice idea but i'd rather not end up in jail. I was wondering if possible to simply open a bank account in one of these places to cash out, but i honestly don't know how local citizenship comes into play here.

the amount i could cash out is life changing so I would like to do this effectively.
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January 26, 2018, 10:38:50 PM
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Dont pay taxes!!
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January 26, 2018, 11:47:23 PM
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Hey! good shout.
I'm eager to pay the legal minimum if you know what i mean  Wink
Especially while our governmet get their fucking act together over crypto in general and the Brexit mess.

I've read some more about Denmark and Belarus having 0% Capital gains tax. As an EU citizen(for now) I'm wondering how I can leverage that? As i'm In SE Asia atm and plan to stay for a while it would be nice to stay put but I'm very ignorant how i would go about it especially if we arent talking piddly amounts (enough for assets).
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January 27, 2018, 12:34:32 AM
 #4

I've held for a few years and want to cash out a large amount. Right now I'm in Singapore which i have been for about two weeks as i am traveling and don't actually intend to return to the UK for a prolonged period for a long time. I've learned that here in SG, as well as Malaysia and also a few EU countries, that cashing out crypto does not make you liable to capital gains tax like in the UK. any taxation is minimal.

would anyone know more about this and what I am liable to back home if i were to cash out abroad? Its a nice idea but i'd rather not end up in jail. I was wondering if possible to simply open a bank account in one of these places to cash out, but i honestly don't know how local citizenship comes into play here.

the amount i could cash out is life changing so I would like to do this effectively.

If the amount is large enough you can go to any jurisdiction that is bitcoin friendly an live in there for at least 6 months during a fiscal year. Then you are legally resident there for tax purposes and then cash out. Denmark and other countries are well known for friendliness. It will probably not work if you have a house in UK and your family lives there, as that would probably make you resident for tax purposes.

If the ammount is not that large, then it makes sense to pay taxes.

If you are Brit I would advise you to do this quickly, as Brexit is floating around and you never know...

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January 27, 2018, 01:09:44 AM
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Hire an accountant. This is the only way you will know that what you are doing is 100% legal. Accountants can offer advise on the best way to go about things as well as confirming any worries you may have. This is especially true if you are cashing out a large amount. Accountants are actually pretty cheap to hire and could be the difference of finding yourself in jail, and enjoying your money on the beach.

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January 27, 2018, 01:12:52 AM
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I've held for a few years and want to cash out a large amount. Right now I'm in Singapore which i have been for about two weeks as i am traveling and don't actually intend to return to the UK for a prolonged period for a long time. I've learned that here in SG, as well as Malaysia and also a few EU countries, that cashing out crypto does not make you liable to capital gains tax like in the UK. any taxation is minimal.

would anyone know more about this and what I am liable to back home if i were to cash out abroad? Its a nice idea but i'd rather not end up in jail. I was wondering if possible to simply open a bank account in one of these places to cash out, but i honestly don't know how local citizenship comes into play here.

the amount i could cash out is life changing so I would like to do this effectively.

If the amount is large enough you can go to any jurisdiction that is bitcoin friendly an live in there for at least 6 months during a fiscal year. Then you are legally resident there for tax purposes and then cash out. Denmark and other countries are well known for friendliness. It will probably not work if you have a house in UK and your family lives there, as that would probably make you resident for tax purposes.

If the ammount is not that large, then it makes sense to pay taxes.

If you are Brit I would advise you to do this quickly, as Brexit is floating around and you never know...

I dont have my own family and i dont own property. I'm in my 20s. So quite fortunate in that aspect.
I will look further into this, sounds like I could just move to Denmark or such a place with my EU citizenship for 6 months and cash out afterwards. Very doable.
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January 27, 2018, 01:45:18 AM
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I dont have my own family and i dont own property. I'm in my 20s. So quite fortunate in that aspect.
I will look further into this, sounds like I could just move to Denmark or such a place with my EU citizenship for 6 months and cash out afterwards. Very doable.

I didn't know about Denmark, is it 100% sure they don't tax gains from selling Bitcoin? I've also heard that capital gains are not taxed in Switzerland, but it is probably difficult to take your residence there.

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January 27, 2018, 02:00:30 AM
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 the amount is negligible.  Belarus is the same.
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January 27, 2018, 04:03:16 PM
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I dont have my own family and i dont own property. I'm in my 20s. So quite fortunate in that aspect.
I will look further into this, sounds like I could just move to Denmark or such a place with my EU citizenship for 6 months and cash out afterwards. Very doable.

I didn't know about Denmark, is it 100% sure they don't tax gains from selling Bitcoin? I've also heard that capital gains are not taxed in Switzerland, but it is probably difficult to take your residence there.


It depends on how your coins were obtained because it seems that trading and gambling is tax free, but running a crypto business is not, so I guess that would include mining on a large scale. Running a crypto loaning service or a payment processor also wouldn't be tax free.

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Currently, Bitcoin is not permitted in online casinos regulated in Denmark. But this may change in the future, especially as no individual is taxed for profits earned through bitcoin trading. Moreover, the Financial Services Authority and the Government of Denmark have announced that all businesses dealing with bitcoins will have to pay taxes.

You can always try Germany or Belarus. These two are 100% confirmed to be crypto tax free countries.
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January 27, 2018, 04:23:53 PM
 #10

Hire an accountant. This is the only way you will know that what you are doing is 100% legal. Accountants can offer advise on the best way to go about things as well as confirming any worries you may have. This is especially true if you are cashing out a large amount. Accountants are actually pretty cheap to hire and could be the difference of finding yourself in jail, and enjoying your money on the beach.

I agree, you need a expert especially if you have such big amounts of coins. You will probably not pay taxes to UK. Hope it will be so
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January 27, 2018, 04:24:30 PM
 #11

I've held for a few years and want to cash out a large amount. Right now I'm in Singapore which i have been for about two weeks as i am traveling and don't actually intend to return to the UK for a prolonged period for a long time. I've learned that here in SG, as well as Malaysia and also a few EU countries, that cashing out crypto does not make you liable to capital gains tax like in the UK. any taxation is minimal.

would anyone know more about this and what I am liable to back home if i were to cash out abroad? Its a nice idea but i'd rather not end up in jail. I was wondering if possible to simply open a bank account in one of these places to cash out, but i honestly don't know how local citizenship comes into play here.

the amount i could cash out is life changing so I would like to do this effectively.

You can't just go to another country to cash out coins then come back and not expect to pay any taxes. That's not how it works. If it was then everyone who made substantial capital gains would just go on a week holiday to a tax haven to cash out their money and bring it back. If you're a legal resident of the UK then you will be liable to UK capital gains taxes. If it's a life changing amount of money then just pay the taxes on it an be worry free. You're gonna have real trouble trying to actually do anything with it in the future as well if you haven't paid the tax owed because substantial purchases like an expensive car or house will be reported due to AML laws and they're going to want to know where it came from and see the relevant documentation eventually so if you want to avoid hefty fines and possibly even jailtime then you should just pay the capital gains taxes on it. You have an allowance of £11k or so so before you have to pay any taxes and don't have to declare it so take advantage of that at the minimum.

Hey! good shout.
I'm eager to pay the legal minimum if you know what i mean  Wink
Especially while our governmet get their fucking act together over crypto in general and the Brexit mess.

I've read some more about Denmark and Belarus having 0% Capital gains tax. As an EU citizen(for now) I'm wondering how I can leverage that?

You can't unless you become a Danish citizen.

I dont have my own family and i dont own property. I'm in my 20s. So quite fortunate in that aspect.
I will look further into this, sounds like I could just move to Denmark or such a place with my EU citizenship for 6 months and cash out afterwards. Very doable.

You probably still won't be able to do this wholly tax free so I would get a decent accountant before you try any scheme. There's laws about people bringing money into the country to stop this exact process of trying to shirk taxes because everyone with money and brain would just do it if it was that easy and allowed (but it isn't).


I dont have my own family and i dont own property. I'm in my 20s. So quite fortunate in that aspect.
I will look further into this, sounds like I could just move to Denmark or such a place with my EU citizenship for 6 months and cash out afterwards. Very doable.

I didn't know about Denmark, is it 100% sure they don't tax gains from selling Bitcoin? I've also heard that capital gains are not taxed in Switzerland, but it is probably difficult to take your residence there.


It depends on how your coins were obtained because it seems that trading and gambling is tax free, but running a crypto business is not, so I guess that would include mining on a large scale. Running a crypto loaning service or a payment processor also wouldn't be tax free.
.

Gambling is tax free, but if he just bought them cheap and now wants to sell them then there will be capital gains for sure.

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January 27, 2018, 04:28:37 PM
 #12

Read a little bit about tax residency, you can't just move to Belarus for instance and cash out, you have to be a resident of the country and have tax residency there. If the money involved is big enough I'd hire an accountant to get some real legal advice. Also in UK you have Capital Gain Tax free allowance. I believe it's £11k or something like that, and if you married you can "borrow" allowance from your partner to make it x2. So if you below that threshold just cash out to your UK bank and you don't even have to report it.
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January 27, 2018, 08:11:34 PM
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It depends on how your coins were obtained because it seems that trading and gambling is tax free, but running a crypto business is not, so I guess that would include mining on a large scale. Running a crypto loaning service or a payment processor also wouldn't be tax free.
.

Gambling is tax free, but if he just bought them cheap and now wants to sell them then there will be capital gains for sure.

Not yet, possibly this year the law will change. For now bitcoin capital gains are NOT taxed in Denmark.

Whether buying and selling bitcoin is seen to be speculation [is] key in determining whether bitcoin gains need to be taxed.
The tax board is meeting in the new year, on 30 January, after which a ruling is to be expected.

https://www.verdict.co.uk/bitcoin-taxed-denmark/

According to the news Denmark is going to follow Norway Sweden and Finland and establish a tax. If you're living there and have some crypto gains you should still be able to cash out this year as the law doesn't work backwards and it usually takes a couple months to implement.
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January 28, 2018, 10:54:04 AM
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You can't unless you become a Danish citizen.

You don´t have to be a citizen, you just need to be resident for tax purposes that is, while the UK remains in the EU, after that you may have more difficulties settling. A quick way to do so is find a job in Denmark, even if it is shitty.

As per most international agreements, you can be resident for tax purposes by living in a country more than half of the year.

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January 28, 2018, 01:55:47 PM
 #15

Between States there is an agreement on avoiding double taxation. You need to consult an experienced accountant. In many countries, the non-resident cannot open a Bank account. If you're in Singapore to withdraw Fiat to your Bank card open in the UK, the tax will have to pay in the UK. Maybe for you it will be cheaper to use the card of a friend living in Singapore. But you need to trust him and pay him taxes.
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January 28, 2018, 05:59:58 PM
 #16

I think this is a question for an expert there will be tax accountant that specialise in this aspect of tax better to be safe when there's large amounts of money involved .youbdont want to owe the taxman because they always recover what there owed .No matter what !

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