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Author Topic: Few Questions that are disturbing me.  (Read 135 times)
SM23031997
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January 27, 2018, 06:53:19 AM
 #1

Q Can I make a transaction with 2049 KB?

Q Will it ever get a confirmation?

Q If it will then it will be violation of rule, that a block can't be greater than 2 MB?

Q If I'm able to make a transaction with 2049 KB then will it able to clog the bitcoin network or able to make the fees higher to any extend?
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January 27, 2018, 06:58:35 AM
 #2

Isn't your 3rd question answering the rest of your questions !

I never tried it or know anyone tried it before but I think it will get rejected by network by default ( It is against network rule !! )  and no pool will pick it up . And if this is the case then there is no point for the rest of your questions .


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January 27, 2018, 07:02:41 AM
Merited by xdrpx (3)
 #3

Q Can I make a transaction with 2049 KB?
Current rules prevent you from doing that. I think the current limit is *100kb-ish* for a standard transaction.

Q Will it ever get a confirmation?
No.

Q If it will then it will be violation of rule, that a block can't be greater than 2 MB?
There is no such rule.

Q If I'm able to make a transaction with 2049 KB then will it able to clog the bitcoin network or able to make the fees higher to any extend?
No. Even if we assume that you can create that transaction and that the network would accept it (validate and relay), why would a miner put only it in a block with X amount of fees when he can put in other transactions amounting to 10 times that in fees? He wouldn't.

...( It is against network rule !! )..
Either it is against a policy or a consensus rule. I haven't seen anyone use the term *network rule* in this context.

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January 27, 2018, 07:13:43 AM
 #4

Q Can I make a transaction with 2049 KB?
Depends. If its a block weight of less than 4,000,000 units, then it is possible. The block itself has its own coinbase transaction and that does take up some space. If the size of transaction is 2,049KB and its not segwit, it would most definitely not be accepted.
Q Will it ever get a confirmation?
If a miner is willing to include it, then yes. The problem is likely with that transaction size being too high such that it becomes a non standard transaction and you would have to find a miner to include it specifically.
Q If it will then it will be violation of rule, that a block can't be greater than 2 MB?
No.

There wasn't anything about blocks being limited to 2MB in the first place. The only thing is that the practical max for Segwit blocks is about 2MB (blocks with all the segwit transactions), IIRC. The maximum size would in theory, be 4MB but 2MB would be about what we can achieve in real life scenarios.

Since the release of Bitcoin Core 0.13.0, the calculation for a max block size is switched to the weight concept instead of a "size" concept. This makes it compatible with the previous versions of Bitcoin Core since it does not violate their 1MB rule as they only see the base data and not the Segwit witness data. There is no restriction with the block size, only block weight.
 
Q If I'm able to make a transaction with 2049 KB then will it able to clog the bitcoin network or able to make the fees higher to any extend?
No. If you were to make such a transaction, you would have to entice the miner with an incredibly high fee and that effect is only there for only a block. Furthermore, since its non standard, users probably won't even know your transaction exists till it gets mined.

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January 27, 2018, 07:23:41 AM
 #5

Q Can I make a transaction with 2049 KB?
Depends. If its a block weight of less than 4,000,000 units, then it is possible.
I don't think that is even possible (at least not in normal usage patterns), but I could be wrong.

The only thing is that the practical max for Segwit blocks is about 2MB, IIRC.
I wouldn't word it like that as it might confuse some people. If the utilization of Segwit was nearing 100%, given the current usage patterns, the blocks would be around 2 MB. However, the maximum size that they can reach is 4 MB.


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January 27, 2018, 09:02:30 AM
 #6

Q Will it ever get a confirmation?
If a miner is willing to include it, then yes. The problem is likely with that transaction size being too high such that it becomes a non standard transaction and you would have to find a miner to include it specifically.

Though being a non-standard transaction, what I am confused about is that -
There are 2 things that need to be considered:
1. Like Lauda said, why would a miner choose this one single transaction instead of choosing a lot of transactions totalling to more than n times the fee this person decides to give?
2. If the problem is related with transaction size and in some wallets, we are able to decide the fee/byte, won't this guy be able to make a test transaction just to see whether it even get created or not? Or maybe with least fee/byte?

If the transaction is to be made more than 2049 kB, it needs to have that level of input and output size, so the transaction needs to be made a healthy transaction for which this person would be willing to pay 0.8196 (considering 400 sats/byte as fee). But still, will it ever get confirmed in reality as it will be the one and only transaction that will eat up the whole space of the block.

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January 27, 2018, 09:08:53 AM
 #7

1. Like Lauda said, why would a miner choose this one single transaction instead of choosing a lot of transactions totalling to more than n times the fee this person decides to give?
-snip-If you were to make such a transaction, you would have to entice the miner with an incredibly high fee-snip-

The simple answer is they don't and they won't. Unless they are sure they would benefit more from including one transactions than including hundreds of other transactions.
2. If the problem is related with transaction size and in some wallets, we are able to decide the fee/byte, won't this guy be able to make a test transaction just to see whether it even get created or not? Or maybe with least fee/byte?
You know, anyone can create a transaction that has a huge transaction size that is non-standard. If you can't use your own wallet do it, use another program which can create it.
If the transaction is to be made more than 2049 kB, it needs to have that level of input and output size, so the transaction needs to be made a healthy transaction for which this person would be willing to pay 0.8196 (considering 400 sats/byte as fee). But still, will it ever get confirmed in reality as it will be the one and only transaction that will eat up the whole space of the block.
That's why, I have mentioned the participation of miners repeatedly in my post. You can't really consider satoshi/byte anymore. Segwit transactions are counted differently, by block weight.

-snip-If a miner is willing to include it, then yes.-snip-
you would have to entice the miner with an incredibly high fee and that effect is only there for only a block. -snip-

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January 28, 2018, 08:31:19 PM
 #8

Just to be a pedant... Your "2meg limit" is not 2048k... It is 2,000k or 2,000,000 bytes.

Bitcoin is not using "Base 2" increments like 1k = 1024 bytes. Bitcoin is "Base 10", So, 1k = 1,000 bytes, 1meg = 1,000,000 bytes etc.


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