Merits should be given for the lower ranks only.

[mithrim]

newbies have not been given merit as there are so many farmers out there, how will that help the system? think of it like a champagne pyramid, the merit will get to the bottom eventually. Some of us are pouring it at all levels, others like Lauda will not give to anyone they do not know or deal with, but the main point is that it will trickle down in time.

I totally get what you are saying here. But that's not the point of all those posts many lower-ranking Members are creating in the last days. Sure, some try to get or 'farm' Merit but many refer to the highly subjective nature of the new system. The old one was objective and fair: more posts = higher rank over time. I understand why this leads to spam and I support measures that put an end to spam in the forum. But please understand that 'it will trickle down in time' is like your boss saying, 'sure, you did a good job, but I can't pay all of you. But be assured, you'll be paid eventually.'

As long as there is money involved, being able to distribute sMerit is a form of power and if this power is distributed subjectively, people will always feel left out. That's just the way things are. It doesn't help when Members who have this power (and tend to give it to their own more freely) say that everything is fine. Sure, it is a new rule and can't be changed, so people better get used to it, but it's not 'fine'.

I hope you don't get me wrong here. I accepted the new rules - obviously, otherwise I could just leave - and I try to adapt. But I keep seeing higher-ranking Members who try to argue that everything is ok and that it will sort itself out eventually. People have to accept the new system but you can't will it a fair system by repeating that everything is ok  

[TMAN]

newbies have not been given merit as there are so many farmers out there, how will that help the system? think of it like a champagne pyramid, the merit will get to the bottom eventually. Some of us are pouring it at all levels, others like Lauda will not give to anyone they do not know or deal with, but the main point is that it will trickle down in time.

I totally get what you are saying here. But that's not the point of all those posts many lower-ranking Members are creating in the last days. Sure, some try to get or 'farm' Merit but many refer to the highly subjective nature of the new system. The old one was objective and fair: more posts = higher rank over time. I understand why this leads to spam and I support measures that put an end to spam in the forum. But please understand that 'it will trickle down in time' is like your boss saying, 'sure, you did a good job, but I can't pay all of you. But be assured, you'll be paid eventually.'

As long as there is money involved, being able to distribute sMerit is a form of power and if this power is distributed subjectively, people will always feel left out. That's just the way things are. It doesn't help when Members who have this power (and tend to give it to their own more freely) say that everything is fine. Sure, it is a new rule and can't be changed, so people better get used to it, but it's not 'fine'.

I hope you don't get me wrong here. I accepted the new rules - obviously, otherwise I could just leave - and I try to adapt. But I keep seeing higher ranking Members who try to argue that everything is ok and that it will sort itself out eventually. People have to accept the new system but you can't will it a fair system by repeating that everything is ok  

dude, you have been given 52 merits in a week.. you cant be a shitposter..  so you are cool and gravy. Activity will be the only limiting factor for you, so just go about your day as usual. IMO theymos will end up increasing the sMerits given to sources every month x5 and increase the total number of sources x5 then there will be a fair distribution,  Until then there is likely to be a big lag and lots of moaning posts

[Jet Cash]

Merit points won't make any difference to me as a forum member - there really isn't much difference between a Hero and a Legendary when it comes to benefits.

However, what the awarding of merit points will do is to allow me to hone and focus my thread starting amd posting. No merit points for as category of posts means that nobody is interested, so I can stop posting about that topic, or in that form. The merit system has already made me change my attitude towards the forum. I have decided to explore and support the expanding world of crypto bounties which is such an important element on this forum.

[Gaman]

True.  It seems so hard to get a merit .. that it is seemingly impossible to increase in rank.

[mithrim]

dude, you have been given 52 merits in a week.. you cant be a shitposter..  so you are cool and gravy. Activity will be the only limiting factor for you, so just go about your day as usual. IMO theymos will end up increasing the sMerits given to sources every month x5 and increase the total number of sources x5 then there will be a fair distribution,  Until then there is likely to be a big lag and lots of moaning posts

Yes, I try to do useful posts as shitposting serves no purpose + it wastes my time as well. I didn't shitpost before those new rules and I certainly won't start now, but I'm not sure if everything is gravy, as you phrased it. I already had several situations where I thought about how I could get more Merit.
Just an example. Early on, I made a German infographic for the local forum. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818999.msg29007624#msg29007624).
I posted it in the main Merit-thread (not pinned at that time) as I thought that it would add value and answer many questions that came up. I wrote OP that he could use it in his post. He got 50 Merit, I got 10 so far.
I thought about creating a new thread, modifying it a bit so that it wouldn't be a copy of his. That way, I would have gotten more Merits for sure, but decided against it, because I hate redundant threads myself.

My point here is: I don't like the way the new system lets us compete. Why wasn't the x5 of merit sources and spendable sMerit introduced in the first place? Why only give the minimum of Merit needed for the Rank and not doing a proportional distribution (activity >> merit)?

You yourself said that there will be a lag and lots of moaning posts. This could have been partially avoided. Now people will moan and they have reasons. It's just sad to see so many higher-ranking members who are annoyed by these posts instead of showing sympathy, they simply don't need to face the same situation. Patronizing behavior doesn't serve anyone (not saying you are doing it).

But sure, I will go about as usual and I hope that the increase in distributed sMerit will happen sooner rather than later as it is much needed so that we can forget about all this drama and continue with the reason we are all here for - crypto.

[BTCeminjas]

Merit points won't make any difference to me as a forum member - there really isn't much difference between a Hero and a Legendary when it comes to benefits.

However, what the awarding of merit points will do is to allow me to hone and focus my thread starting amd posting. No merit points for as category of posts means that nobody is interested, so I can stop posting about that topic, or in that form. The merit system has already made me change my attitude towards the forum. I have decided to explore and support the expanding world of crypto bounties which is such an important element on this forum.

Lucky for those account member did not need merits for ranking up more like Legendary and Hero member, but how about just like me as a lower rank it is impossible to have an merit if they like to give because i am lower rank. Many good poster did not recognized their post especially those lower ranks as what i have observed even though they are deserving to have a merit not like high rank.
Those higher rank having more smerit compared with lower rank i think they must give attention of it. For me i have 1 smerit to give how could i give more for those i think must deserving to have.

[honeyira]

even you are receiving merits you dont bother to give to the lower ranks. what makes a difference then?

Why would I give random spammers any merit? E.g., this thread is a nice example of attempted, yet failed, quality posting.

Thanks Lauda for a kind words. All newbies should look up you as a model of quality posting. I just couldn't believe that there is a Legendary act like a spammer.

[honeyira]

Sr. Member, Hero and Legendary do they need a merits? These rank should be exempted on merits systems instead they are the one who will judge the lower ranks by giving merits.

These could benefit the forum members as a whole;

1. Newbies that work as a spam will be controlled.
2. It will give an opportunity those newbies that really working hard to rank up in fair time.
    (I saw a lot merits just given to the the higher ranks which a post is not really worthy of a merit. majority of the merits just dwell in their realm. Lower
    ranks just gets the crumbs)
3. Merits will be distributed fairly to the lower ranks because higher ranks will not think of their merits anymore.

'Hope this post can get crumbs.'

Blatant Merit farming like this just wont work..

newbies have not been given merit as there are so many farmers out there, how will that help the system? think of it like a champagne pyramid, the merit will get to the bottom eventually. Some of us are pouring it at all levels, others like Lauda will not give to anyone they do not know or deal with, but the main point is that it will trickle down in time.

People calling this thread a blatant farming of merits is blatant too. Where the point that this thread is a merits farming? this is just a simple opinion that man called it blatant could not comprehend.

[ACVinegar]

Actually newbies, jr. members, members, full members and senior members are the bracket who needs to earned high numbers of merits to ranked up. After that hero members was not needed it too much merit to rank up, because they are at the point that they need only to wait to complete their merit to reach out the legendary position. In real it's hard for them to gain merit but we have no choice, we need to follow the new rules system, for now I believe that merit system should given to lower rank only.

[RYXES]

3 up or down votes per day to every member.
Equal opportunities is a must.

[qwk]

I think what he is saying is the top rankings should just get unlimited merit to give and progress normally to the next level.

That won't work.
Accounts will be hacked, this "unlimited merit" will fall into the hands of "merit-dealers".

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I don't agree with most of what OP wrote, and it sounds like just another noobie thread complaining about not getting merits *fast enough*. 

As for myself, I obviously don't need merits to rank up, but I think it's somewhat important to campaign managers when they're looking at a potential participant's quality of "work".  I know DarkStar_ very much keeps track of the merits that have been earned in the Chipmixer campaign, though he hasn't used it to fire anyone or anything else.

When someone sends me merit(s) for posts I've made that they like, I've thus far given the sMerits back in the manner of paying it forward.  And if you look at my "sent merits" history, I've given quite a few of them to unknown (to me), low-ranked members. 

I agree that it's the low-ranked members who need them most, but I've also noticed that it's these same ones who tend to make some of the shittiest posts I've ever read on bitcointalk.  There are too many noobs, alt accounts, and throwaway ones for them to ever receive the amount of merit they're expecting.  What they need to do is just be patient. 

The merit system is kind of designed to let people rank up slowly--except if you're nullius, making a lot of very high-quality posts.  Everyone else just needs to wait.

[Jet Cash]

'Hope this post can get crumbs.'

Take care with your posting - begging for merit is not allowed.

[Tyrantt]

True.  It seems so hard to get a merit .. that it is seemingly impossible to increase in rank.

Well you've said it nicely, it seems hard to get merit but it somewhat actually isn't at all. Right now, merit is still new and most likely some posts that deserve merit didn't get merited and all of us have different understanding of quality, so just give it some time.

[19faraon88]

I'm agree in Merit point is entitled only in lower ranks but merit points created for all of us, so that all we should be post have a meaning and great quality. I think their is another purpose why the higher ranks also entitled in Merit Point. Forum always open in changes, just do our best, always.

[belyaevi]

I'm agree in Merit point is entitled only in lower ranks but merit points created for all of us, so that all we should be post have a meaning and great quality. I think their is another purpose why the higher ranks also entitled in Merit Point. Forum always open in changes, just do our best, always.

There can be a number of other reasons for admin allowing merits for higher rank members:

1) He might have decided to add requirements like having some minimum earned merits to retain the current rank. If the merit points were limited to only the new members and this change was introduced, it would mean that all high rank members will loose their rank.

2) We can also have something like the requirement of getting some merits per year. Othwerwise it really makes no sense to allow merits for the highest rank here as they do not need it. 

[criz2fer]

Sr. Member, Hero and Legendary do they need a merits? These rank should be exempted on merits systems instead they are the one who will judge the lower ranks by giving merits.

These could benefit the forum members as a whole;

1. Newbies that work as a spam will be controlled.
2. It will give an opportunity those newbies that really working hard to rank up in fair time.
    (I saw a lot merits just given to the the higher ranks which a post is not really worthy of a merit. majority of the merits just dwell in their realm. Lower
    ranks just gets the crumbs)
3. Merits will be distributed fairly to the lower ranks because higher ranks will not think of their merits anymore.

'Hope this post can get crumbs.'

More and more merit farmer. Trying another suggestion and making plead just to earn merit from a quality posting. All of these are all over the meta. The current merit system will not adjust for posters that could not even make a simple understanding about the rules.

[BitNaija]

Sr. Member, Hero and Legendary do they need a merits? These rank should be exempted on merits systems instead they are the one who will judge the lower ranks by giving merits.

These could benefit the forum members as a whole;

1. Newbies that work as a spam will be controlled.
2. It will give an opportunity those newbies that really working hard to rank up in fair time.
    (I saw a lot merits just given to the the higher ranks which a post is not really worthy of a merit. majority of the merits just dwell in their realm. Lower
    ranks just gets the crumbs)
3. Merits will be distributed fairly to the lower ranks because higher ranks will not think of their merits anymore.

'Hope this post can get crumbs.'

I suggest theymos look into this suggestions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3066432.0

It will offer some other avenue to earn merits in addition to the present system.
Or Legendary and Hero members can adopt this system to improve reviews of what is worthy of meriting.

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3046992.0

This is in a bid to keep the forum strengthened.

[superjeyy]

Sr. Member, Hero and Legendary do they need a merits? These rank should be exempted on merits systems instead they are the one who will judge the lower ranks by giving merits.

These could benefit the forum members as a whole;

1. Newbies that work as a spam will be controlled.
2. It will give an opportunity those newbies that really working hard to rank up in fair time.
    (I saw a lot merits just given to the the higher ranks which a post is not really worthy of a merit. majority of the merits just dwell in their realm. Lower
    ranks just gets the crumbs)
3. Merits will be distributed fairly to the lower ranks because higher ranks will not think of their merits anymore.

'Hope this post can get crumbs.'

Those who are in the Sr. Member, Hero and Legendary ranks still needs merits because as you suggested, those ranks will judge the lower ranks by giving merits. If they (Sr. Member, Hero and Legendary) run out of sMerits to give, how can they judge those lower ranks? It's a cycle, they can't give if they don't have receive any.

This is exactly the point that the OP and other newbies should understand and comprehend. I always see posts in this section on how the merit system is against lower rank members and how it favors the higher ranked members since they wouldn't need the merits. Well here's the thing: not all higher ranked members are merit sources which is why the circulation of merits towards each member, no matter what rank, should be sustained. Despite their high rank, Senior, Hero, and Legendary members are eligible in receiving merits as they are the ones who can spread it around the forum efficiently. Just think of the merit system this way, it doesn't favor any rank as its continual circulation is needed for members to progress in this forum.

[sitnikov]

I suggest theymos look into this suggestions.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3066432.0

It will offer some other avenue to earn merits in addition to the present system.
Or Legendary and Hero members can adopt this system to improve reviews of what is worthy of meriting.

 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3046992.0

This is in a bid to keep the forum strengthened.

I looked at the suggestions in those threads and they are illogical. Here is why :

1) He is suggesting something like giving merit points for certain amount of activity like based on total time logged in. Hearing this suggestion, first thing that comes to mind is that spammers will keep the account logged in for hours to make advantage of this.

2) He also suggested something like giving one merit for posts above 100 words. I have seen some of the responses by spammers here more than 300 words or so and they are just meaning less. They keep stretching the same thing to make posts longer.