Bitcoin Forum
October 18, 2018, 08:50:59 AM *
News: Make sure you are not using versions of Bitcoin Core other than 0.17.0 [Torrent], 0.16.3, 0.15.2, or 0.14.3. More info.
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Protection against armed robbery of Bitcoin  (Read 494 times)
Jet Cash
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1036
Merit: 1251


I don't merit Spambies


View Profile WWW
January 28, 2018, 05:42:08 PM
Merited by Decoded (50), suchmoon (3), ibminer (2), malevolent (1), mprep (1), cAPSLOCK (1)
 #1

A gang of four armed raiders held up an English Bitcoin trader at gunpoint. He was forced to transfer a large sum in Bitcoin. I believe this is the first such event in England, but not the first in the world.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5322171/Pictured-barn-raiders-committed-bitcoin-robbery.html

How can we protect ourselves against this? Some thoughts occur to me.

Transfer the coins into a timelocked wallet controlled by me. But would that provoke a physical resction from the raiders.
Time lock the transfer into their requested wallet.
If the stolen coins are run through a mixer, could I sue the mixer because he was profiting from the proceeds of crime.

Has anybody got any other ideas?
1539852659
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539852659

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1539852659
Reply with quote  #2

1539852659
Report to moderator
1539852659
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539852659

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1539852659
Reply with quote  #2

1539852659
Report to moderator
According to NIST and ECRYPT II, the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are expected to be strong until at least 2030. (After that, it will not be too difficult to transition to different algorithms.)
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1539852659
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539852659

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1539852659
Reply with quote  #2

1539852659
Report to moderator
1539852659
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539852659

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1539852659
Reply with quote  #2

1539852659
Report to moderator
1539852659
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539852659

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1539852659
Reply with quote  #2

1539852659
Report to moderator
shorena
Copper Member
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1470
Merit: 1276


No I dont escrow anymore.


View Profile WWW
January 28, 2018, 09:07:41 PM
Merited by funsponge (5), Vod (3), Jet Cash (2), EFS (1)
 #2

A gang of four armed raiders held up an English Bitcoin trader at gunpoint. He was forced to transfer a large sum in Bitcoin. I believe this is the first such event in England, but not the first in the world.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5322171/Pictured-barn-raiders-committed-bitcoin-robbery.html

How can we protect ourselves against this? Some thoughts occur to me.

Transfer the coins into a timelocked wallet controlled by me. But would that provoke a physical resction from the raiders.
Time lock the transfer into their requested wallet.
If the stolen coins are run through a mixer, could I sue the mixer because he was profiting from the proceeds of crime.

Has anybody got any other ideas?

I have no idea what legal consequences this could result in for a mixer, but generally speaking the best way to defend against this is to not be known to have a large amount of coins. Either that or take appropriate steps to secure your house. A barn does not sound very secure and for someone holding 800k I would at least expect walls, gates and CCTV or in other words physical protection that can not be merely kicked in. Additionally if its for long term storage to require a second signature would make sense, e.g. by keys held on a different device in a different location. This might secure the coins, but not necessarily your life. Depending on the level of knowledge the robbery have of bitcoin, they might not grasp the concept and assume you try to bullshit your way out of the situation. Im also not entirely sure to whom the baby belonged. Did they hold it hostage or they come with their family? They might be willing to take you with them for some time to wait off a time lock.
iluvbitcoins
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1498
Merit: 1065


Freedom&Honor


View Profile WWW
January 28, 2018, 09:41:29 PM
Merited by Vod (3), Jet Cash (2), Bolt Brownie (1)
 #3

As a last resort encrypt your laptop and set a fake password which leads to a wallet with a low amount of BTC (you can do this with VeraCrypt), tell them that's all you have.
Only as a last resort though.
If you're in the US, buy automatic weapons.
If not, some electric shockers, pepper spray and knives.
And a few big trained dogs  Smiley
Some cameras won't hurt either, a panic button for the police or something.
If you don't have much experience with training dogs, german shephards are a great choice, they're so easy to train because they're so loyal to their owners and willing to obey orders, if you do have exp you can go with a Kangal.
Get at least 2.
2 Kangals and a rifle will stop anything.

Also, if you're outside the US, it's possible you can obtain a hunting rifle legally, so check with the authorities.
+ you can always get a gas pistol which looks exactly like the real thing and will possible scare the shit out of the intruders when it bangs (if they want your BTC, they need you alive), but if you have suspicions you might get attacked, I'd just rather obtain real weapons illegaly, fuck the goverment which won't allow you to defend your property.
You'd be better off paying fees for illegal weapons possesion than having a million $ in BTC stolen.
You can literally cut someone in half using a katana, but it's inaffective in active combat since it's too long, takes some time to swing, you would probably be better off with a smaller knife.

Also, keep 1 dog inside, and 1 outside, it's possible although unlikely if the attacker is well prepared that he obtains a tranquilizer gun.
If he gets inside he can't know you have another dog, or where he is located, or while gets to shoot him you have plenty of time to stab/shoot the bastard or just knock him out with a baseball bat.

I shouldn't even mention a fence is implied.
Motion detectors and a home security system isn't a bad idea, keeping good relations with your neighbors since you might need their help.
Try to have a clear sight in your yard, not many bushes and stuff so the intruders can't hide if they tranquilized your dogs.

Following these rules, I think if someone tries to break into your home, he's fucked.
aleksej996
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 420
Merit: 311


Do not trust the government


View Profile WWW
January 29, 2018, 12:08:40 AM
 #4

There are many ideas that pop into person's mind with multisigs and whatnot, but I think we all have to remember here that Bitcoin isn't magical, it will not solve every problem out there. It is just better (a lot better) than fiat, but it ain't perfect and we shouldn't expect that from it.

Robberies will always exist. Especially extortions for kidnappings. There are many things we could do, although most ideas would lead us to more powerful governments and centralization, but these things will always happen.
vintages
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 136


View Profile
January 29, 2018, 01:15:39 PM
Merited by Reid (2)
 #5

I believe the first thing that might have triggered an armed robber to attack someone and demand a transfer of their coin is if the armed robber knows that the person been attacked is a bitcoin or crypto trader. This is why it is recommended that you live low key if you are trader especially one with huge fund.  iluvbitcoins suggestion is perfect but what if you where not at home when the incident happens and was attacked when you least expect it; probably when you are out for a quick dinner? I guess its better not to have a trading app on your phone and live a low key Life till when you decided not to trade again. Though, most people may not like it since they want to live a five star life when the gains start pouring in.
iluvbitcoins
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1498
Merit: 1065


Freedom&Honor


View Profile WWW
January 29, 2018, 01:53:16 PM
Merited by Reid (4), malevolent (1)
 #6

I believe the first thing that might have triggered an armed robber to attack someone and demand a transfer of their coin is if the armed robber knows that the person been attacked is a bitcoin or crypto trader. This is why it is recommended that you live low key if you are trader especially one with huge fund.  iluvbitcoins suggestion is perfect but what if you where not at home when the incident happens and was attacked when you least expect it; probably when you are out for a quick dinner? I guess its better not to have a trading app on your phone and live a low key Life till when you decided not to trade again. Though, most people may not like it since they want to live a five star life when the gains start pouring in.

Keep the cold wallet at home encrypted and only a hot wallet with you, therefore if someone attacks you, if you're forced to, you can give away a low amount of coins.
I'm unsure how it works in the US, but if it's possible, get a legal carry, if not, as I said, pepper spray, electric shocker, or a knife.
I'll be getting a new batch of bitcoin knives soon, might as well get those Tongue
mocacinno
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1218


https://mocacinno.com


View Profile WWW
January 29, 2018, 02:09:27 PM
 #7

I believe the first thing that might have triggered an armed robber to attack someone and demand a transfer of their coin is if the armed robber knows that the person been attacked is a bitcoin or crypto trader. This is why it is recommended that you live low key if you are trader especially one with huge fund.  iluvbitcoins suggestion is perfect but what if you where not at home when the incident happens and was attacked when you least expect it; probably when you are out for a quick dinner? I guess its better not to have a trading app on your phone and live a low key Life till when you decided not to trade again. Though, most people may not like it since they want to live a five star life when the gains start pouring in.

Keep the cold wallet at home encrypted and only a hot wallet with you, therefore if someone attacks you, if you're forced to, you can give away a low amount of coins.
I'm unsure how it works in the US, but if it's possible, get a legal carry, if not, as I said, pepper spray, electric shocker, or a knife.
I'll be getting a new batch of bitcoin knives soon, might as well get those Tongue

sigh... Some of us live in countries where it's illegal for an individual to carry any kind of firearm (unless traveling from home to a shooting club or back, carrying a legal licence, with the gun locked up in the trunk), any kind of gas pistol, pepper spray, knives, tasers, baseball bats,... Basically, it's illegal to carry anything you can use to protect yourself  Cry

Personally, i recently hired a safe at our local bank to store my hardware wallet (+ the encrypted seed). I don't own that much BTC anyways, but i was entertaining the idear of renting a safe to store my house's deed, my testament, some silver coins,... so when BTC price jumped, i just hired a safe and got it over with.
vintages
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 136


View Profile
January 29, 2018, 04:19:21 PM
 #8


Keep the cold wallet at home encrypted and only a hot wallet with you, therefore if someone attacks you, if you're forced to, you can give away a low amount of coins.
I'm unsure how it works in the US, but if it's possible, get a legal carry, if not, as I said, pepper spray, electric shocker, or a knife.
I'll be getting a new batch of bitcoin knives soon, might as well get those Tongue
Well, the bold words may work if you are been attacked unexpected. But what if you were been kidnapped? If you send them a low amount of coin, the robber will certainly know that there is alot more you are holding back, after all he targeted his victim before attacking. Have you  thought, what if you left home without your pepper spray, electric shocker or a knife? You don't want to be living in fear all just because you are a bitcoin trader. We all hope we don't fall victim to this new type of robbery but I would still prefer to live a normal low key life.
pawel7777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1078


We're all gonna make it


View Profile WWW
January 29, 2018, 05:11:18 PM
 #9

... generally speaking the best way to defend against this is to not be known to have a large amount of coins. ...

This.

The victim in this case was a bit reckless, he change the name of his company to "Aston Digital Currencies Ltd" in Sep 2017, the registered office address is his home address. Not very smart, but in his defence, it's the first case of such robbery in the UK so not something that was easy to predict.


All the self defence suggestion (gas pistol, knife, pepper spray) are bad idea when facing 4 armed (dark-skinned) attackers and when you have small child in the house.

But what I'm more interested in is what security feature could be implemented by exchanges to prevent gunpoint-forced transfers. Opt-in 3 days delay for withdrawals above certain amount? For business-owned accounts - requirement of two 2FA authentications?
iluvbitcoins
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1498
Merit: 1065


Freedom&Honor


View Profile WWW
January 29, 2018, 05:11:56 PM
 #10

sigh... Some of us live in countries where it's illegal for an individual to carry any kind of firearm (unless traveling from home to a shooting club or back, carrying a legal licence, with the gun locked up in the trunk), any kind of gas pistol, pepper spray, knives, tasers, baseball bats,... Basically, it's illegal to carry anything you can use to protect yourself  Cry

Personally, i recently hired a safe at our local bank to store my hardware wallet (+ the encrypted seed). I don't own that much BTC anyways, but i was entertaining the idear of renting a safe to store my house's deed, my testament, some silver coins,... so when BTC price jumped, i just hired a safe and got it over with.

What  Shocked
Pepper spray is considered a weapon?  Shocked
Just carry something anyways.
How many times have you been searched by police in your life?
I'd say it's worth the risk.


Keep the cold wallet at home encrypted and only a hot wallet with you, therefore if someone attacks you, if you're forced to, you can give away a low amount of coins.
I'm unsure how it works in the US, but if it's possible, get a legal carry, if not, as I said, pepper spray, electric shocker, or a knife.
I'll be getting a new batch of bitcoin knives soon, might as well get those Tongue
Well, the bold words may work if you are been attacked unexpected. But what if you were been kidnapped? If you send them a low amount of coin, the robber will certainly know that there is alot more you are holding back, after all he targeted his victim before attacking. Have you  thought, what if you left home without your pepper spray, electric shocker or a knife? You don't want to be living in fear all just because you are a bitcoin trader. We all hope we don't fall victim to this new type of robbery but I would still prefer to live a normal low key life.

You can only try to play it real, like you gambled it all, or you invested it in some ICO that went shit, they might not believe you, but it's worth a shot.
Don't leave without it  Cheesy
I have a switchblade with me at all times, not because I need it but because it comes in handy when you need to open stuff.
It's legal to carry here if the blade is 8cm or less, this one is 9cm, but fuck it.
I was never searched by the police in my entire life, and I probably won't be.

All the self defence suggestion (gas pistol, knife, pepper spray) are bad idea when facing 4 armed (dark-skinned) attackers and when you have small child in the house.

But what I'm more interested in is what security feature could be implemented by exchanges to prevent gunpoint-forced transfers. Opt-in 3 days delay for withdrawals above certain amount? For business-owned accounts - requirement of two 2FA authentications?

I don't think those 4 dark-skinned attackers could do anything in a house with motion detectors, 2 Kangals, and you with a rifle sitting inside.
If they could, it's still a lot better than nothing.

Also, ofcourse you're going to try to lay low as it's suggested, but why not make your house safe as well?
pawel7777
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1708
Merit: 1078


We're all gonna make it


View Profile WWW
January 29, 2018, 05:22:43 PM
 #11

...
What  Shocked
Pepper spray is considered a weapon?  Shocked
Just carry something anyways.
How many times have you been searched by police in your life?
I'd say it's worth the risk.
...

EVERYTHING can be considered a weapon in the UK. Police usually wouldn't frisk you with no reason. So I agree it's worth a risk. Still, pepper spray and alike would be useless in this case.


https://i.imgur.com/kGhl9F7.png

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1437/51/1437516323237.png
Jet Cash
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 1036
Merit: 1251


I don't merit Spambies


View Profile WWW
January 29, 2018, 05:41:06 PM
 #12


But what I'm more interested in is what security feature could be implemented by exchanges to prevent gunpoint-forced transfers. Opt-in 3 days delay for withdrawals above certain amount? For business-owned accounts - requirement of two 2FA authentications?

This discussion was the reason I started the thread.

All talk of guns, knives etc. are not relevant, as it is in the UK, and the police are more likely to spend time prosecuting you, than hunting for the criminals if you carry a knife. In fact you run the risk of prosecution if you defend yourself against terrorists over here. If the police are too vigorous in arresting the thieves, or they keep them in custody for an extra couple of hours, then the criminals may be awarded many thousand of pounds in compensation if they claim against the police. This is the reality of England under the rule of the Keiser Reich.
iluvbitcoins
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1498
Merit: 1065


Freedom&Honor


View Profile WWW
January 29, 2018, 09:08:41 PM
 #13


But what I'm more interested in is what security feature could be implemented by exchanges to prevent gunpoint-forced transfers. Opt-in 3 days delay for withdrawals above certain amount? For business-owned accounts - requirement of two 2FA authentications?

This discussion was the reason I started the thread.

All talk of guns, knives etc. are not relevant, as it is in the UK, and the police are more likely to spend time prosecuting you, than hunting for the criminals if you carry a knife. In fact you run the risk of prosecution if you defend yourself against terrorists over here. If the police are too vigorous in arresting the thieves, or they keep them in custody for an extra couple of hours, then the criminals may be awarded many thousand of pounds in compensation if they claim against the police. This is the reality of England under the rule of the Keiser Reich.

Everything beyond self defense will not necessarily save your life and should be used as a last resort.
After they get what they want from you, you're just a witness that knows too much.
The best I can think of is a hidden volume and a lockbox with a lot of keys.
Since I can't contribute to thread anymore, I will leave now  Cheesy
Reid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 854
Merit: 523

English is a language.Not a measure of intellignce


View Profile
February 01, 2018, 05:58:32 PM
 #14

I believe the first thing that might have triggered an armed robber to attack someone and demand a transfer of their coin is if the armed robber knows that the person been attacked is a bitcoin or crypto trader. This is why it is recommended that you live low key if you are trader especially one with huge fund.  iluvbitcoins suggestion is perfect but what if you where not at home when the incident happens and was attacked when you least expect it; probably when you are out for a quick dinner? I guess its better not to have a trading app on your phone and live a low key Life till when you decided not to trade again. Though, most people may not like it since they want to live a five star life when the gains start pouring in.

Merited iluvbitcoins twice that was supposed to be for vintages.  Grin
I think I need to always wear my glasses.

Well anyway, I do agree with not trading to protect yourself from being known or giving away important information specially ID's that had been needed mostly now just so you could level up your account from trading websites.
Or we could also look for the ones that doesnt need it.
One is etherdelta. But it is only for ethereum and ERC20 tokens so your options are limited. Also have been a shitty website now which loads too much just so the tokens will be revealed. (this one needs updates)

So what else could be a better reason to be unknown and prevent this to happen to us?
I guess we should just use other address whenever you are doubting someone who wants to get address for payments.
But it is going to be a hell of payment for transaction fees. Before, this is easy but now you need a lot of money to do it.
vintages
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 136


View Profile
February 02, 2018, 11:00:38 AM
 #15

Merited iluvbitcoins twice that was supposed to be for vintages.  Grin
I think I need to always wear my glasses.

Well anyway, I do agree with not trading to protect yourself from being known or giving away important information specially ID's that had been needed mostly now just so you could level up your account from trading websites.
Or we could also look for the ones that doesnt need it.
One is etherdelta. But it is only for ethereum and ERC20 tokens so your options are limited. Also have been a shitty website now which loads too much just so the tokens will be revealed. (this one needs updates)

So what else could be a better reason to be unknown and prevent this to happen to us?
I guess we should just use other address whenever you are doubting someone who wants to get address for payments.
But it is going to be a hell of payment for transaction fees. Before, this is easy but now you need a lot of money to do it.


Hahaha...thanks anyway.
You know the ID verification which are been required by exchanges is what makes a lot of trader skeptical in engaging in trading too. And it is also what gives away users information to possible bitcoin thief but the exchange are doing this to protect themselves and their users too and we can't blame them for it. So I think your idea of using the other address is a good one, even though the transaction fee maybe high, but it is better than losing all your fund.
Trofo
Sr. Member
****
Online Online

Activity: 448
Merit: 301


Look ARROUND!


View Profile WWW
February 08, 2018, 11:19:02 AM
 #16

First of all don't let anybody know you have a lot of money.

I am supporter of the idea of hiding in the plain site. Of course this could only work if you didn't already bought top 10 most expensive cars to make your garage presentable to friends. If you have a state of the art security system and dogs in the yard you are actually advertising that you posses something worth stealing and inviting higher tier of criminals.

If you find yourself in a bad situation surrender your hot wallet and most of your exchange logins after appropriate amount of denial.
1. Hide your cold wallet in a basement in a box full of old CDs and DVDs. For extra layer of protection use something like floppy drives. Use multiple copies to prevent data deterioration. Label the box as wedding videos + mixed cartoons to prevent wife and kids to trow it away Smiley
2. Take a pair of old boots (preferably muddy and smelly) and make a hiding spot in one of them. No need to use heel like in spy movies, just tape your stick (or two) on the top of the part where your toes go in. Put them with the bunch of other old shoes or clothes and label the box charity.

Now i just need to get my hands on some serious money so i can try out my ideas Smiley
vapourminer
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1893
Merit: 1076


what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


View Profile
February 08, 2018, 09:19:47 PM
 #17

folks who are serious about security and hiding valuables certainly are not going to list example setups here, so i dont expect much conversation in this thread. just search online for what the security experts recommend. lots of good info to be had.

one thing though, an alarm and/or dog dont necessarily mean high value monetary objects are within, the most valuable things i have are my wifes and my lives. all the alarm system or dog does is give me warning enough to take appropriate measures. anything else in the house is considered expendable/replaceable.
lockept93
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 448
Merit: 252



View Profile WWW
February 09, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
 #18

Imo - if somebody knows that u got BTC, you using Bitcoin in a wrong way  Wink
zaq130
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 266
Merit: 128



View Profile
February 16, 2018, 12:36:34 AM
 #19

I am sure that there is no way to protect except ideas below.

1 Make yourself strong.
Do workout and always bring something to protect.
However, if the robber has gun it will be hard to protect your life by muscle.

2 Hire someone
I once met a co-founder of ADA and he has bodyguard to protect himself.
If you have enough, you can have your own secret service.
However, it means that you are going to lose your private.

So, I think the safest way is to immigrate to a country where only rich lives; Monaco could be good.
Rich people do not need to rob BTC, since they already have enough in fiat.
charlie137
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 118


💢 🤘🔪 🔥


View Profile WWW
March 07, 2018, 09:26:16 AM
 #20

isn't there any insurance solution yet? something on that level operates in ny state already
Pages: [1] 2 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!