[May 2024] Fees are high, wait for opportunity to Consolidate your small inputs

[pooya87]

The thing about transactions and mempool is that each node has its own mempool and each node can receive a certain transaction at a certain (different) time, on top of that they can have different rules.
For example if you sent your transaction yesterday and my node came online today and asked for mempool from another node, I would receive your transaction today so 14 days later when by default other nodes drop your transaction, I still keep it for another day and will continue relaying it to other nodes. I may also not have the 14 day limit and instead keep the transaction for 30 days.

This means when you send a transaction, technically speaking, it will never "drop out of mempool" and can still be mined/confirmed if it remains valid. Which is why the only real way to get rid of a transaction is to double spend its inputs to make it invalid (eg. using RBF).

[PrimeNumber7]

So unless you use some odd online wallet that would maybe re-broadcast your tx, from what I know, in 2-3 weeks it should be forgotten if not processed.

I've had this with Mycelium (on Android) too: it kept broadcasting my transactions, and when I deleted it, it picked it up again. Bitcoin Core also keeps broadcasting a transaction until you manually tell it to drop it. It really depends on the wallet, and that's why CPFP or RBF is much easier.

Once you broadcast a transaction, it is public, and there is the risk that someone will rebroadcast it if it gets "dropped". This means that if you are sending coin to yourself, you should keep backups of the private key of the receiving address, and if you are sending coin to someone else, you should either double-spend the transaction or be sure that the person you are sending coin to is trustworthy enough to return any duplicate transactions.

[Poker Player]

Do they ? I once read that a user had put a very low amount of fee for his transaction and the transaction remained unconfirmed like forever.
How much time do you mean when you say "after a while" ?

I think that normally the mempools would start dropping the transaction after 2 weeks, but some may have different settings (longer or shorter period).

I understand him, because when I discovered this thread I started consolidating and in one case I had a transaction stuck for about a month. I can't remember if I had RBF enabled because I was even dumber than I am now regarding technical issues. I wasn't in a hurry to consolidate but having your money in a limbo for a month is not cool.

Best solution enable RBF as it has been mentioned previously.

[satscraper]

Consolidate your small inputs while you can, low fees won't last forever!

Hi, I  have been a  btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently  . One of them is related to consolidation,  i.e.,   in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk  separately   at different times.

I'm fully aware that blockchain records are perfectly transparent for chain analysis but have the fillings that should consolidation of all inputs  be made not simultaneously and, in addition, to  addresses which differ from each other my privacy will be better preserved. What is your point on this matter?   Thanks for your full answer.

[pawanjain]

Do they ? I once read that a user had put a very low amount of fee for his transaction and the transaction remained unconfirmed like forever.
How much time do you mean when you say "after a while" ?

I think that normally the mempools would start dropping the transaction after 2 weeks, but some may have different settings (longer or shorter period).

I understand him, because when I discovered this thread I started consolidating and in one case I had a transaction stuck for about a month. I can't remember if I had RBF enabled because I was even dumber than I am now regarding technical issues. I wasn't in a hurry to consolidate but having your money in a limbo for a month is not cool.

Best solution enable RBF as it has been mentioned previously.

So the chances of getting a transaction stuck in a limbo is indeed true, at least for a specific amount of time after which it might be dropped.

So unless you use some odd online wallet that would maybe re-broadcast your tx, from what I know, in 2-3 weeks it should be forgotten if not processed.

I've had this with Mycelium (on Android) too: it kept broadcasting my transactions, and when I deleted it, it picked it up again. Bitcoin Core also keeps broadcasting a transaction until you manually tell it to drop it. It really depends on the wallet, and that's why CPFP or RBF is much easier.

I tried searching for the RBF feature in my wallet since I use Mycelium too but I was unable to find it.
As a precautionary step, how do we ensure that we have the options for RBF or CPFP enabled in our Mycelium wallet.

[Poker Player]

Hi, I  have been a  btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently  . One of them is related to consolidation,  i.e.,   in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk  separately   at different times.

I'm fully aware that blockchain records are perfectly transparent for chain analysis but have the fillings that should consolidation of all inputs  be made not simultaneously and, in addition, to  addresses which differ from each other my privacy will be better preserved. What is your point on this matter?   Thanks for your full answer.

I guess you haven't read all 26 pages of the thread. I asked him a similar question a few pages back, and it's best not to consolidate it all in the same address and at once, as you are revealing all the Bitcoin you have.

It is better to smaller chuncks and different addresses. And then remember not to mix them when it comes to spending.

[NeuroticFish]

So the chances of getting a transaction stuck in a limbo is indeed true, at least for a specific amount of time after which it might be dropped.

The "at least some time" part was always true. I was not expected that the problem of "indefinitely on limbo" is as big as the others stated.
However, having the RBF flag on for last resort is always a good idea.

I tried searching for the RBF feature in my wallet since I use Mycelium too but I was unable to find it.
As a precautionary step, how do we ensure that we have the options for RBF or CPFP enabled in our Mycelium wallet.

I know that Electrum for desktop does explicitly have the option to have or not RBF, but I didn't see any such setting in Mycelium.
You can see on a block explorer like mempool.space, blockchair.com (in additional info area) for any transaction that's not confirmed whether it has RBF on or not.

CPFP doesn't have to be enabled. All you have to do is ensure that at least one output of your transaction (that's usually the change) goes to a wallet under your control (so you can spend it with a very high fee in case of emergency, hence doing CPFP = child pays for parent).

Hi, I  have been a  btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently  . One of them is related to consolidation,  i.e.,   in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk  separately   at different times.

I'm fully aware that blockchain records are perfectly transparent for chain analysis but have the fillings that should consolidation of all inputs  be made not simultaneously and, in addition, to  addresses which differ from each other my privacy will be better preserved. What is your point on this matter?   Thanks for your full answer.

Imho, if you have such problems, then you'll probably have to only consolidate only the related inputs. If you are not sure, consolidate only where you have multiple inputs at the same address.
If you consolidate them all, whether you do it in multiple steps or not, can easily get tracked/seen that they all belong to the same wallet.

[LoyceV]

I tried searching for the RBF feature in my wallet since I use Mycelium too but I was unable to find it.
As a precautionary step, how do we ensure that we have the options for RBF or CPFP enabled in our Mycelium wallet.

I'm not sure if RBF is possible from Mycelium. It does however offer "CPFP". I used it once (not realizing what it meant back then). And I'm pretty sure it didn't ask for my password for this!

Hi, I  have been a  btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently  . One of them is related to consolidation,  i.e.,   in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk  separately   at different times.

If you have multiple inputs on one address: consolidate them all at once.
If you have unique addresses for each input: any consolidation you do reduces privacy by linking the addresses together. I don't think waiting between consolidating matters much if you link the addresses eventually.

addresses which differ from each other

One more thing to consider: maybe you don't mind linking some of the addresses. If you added a label to your transaction, you probably won't mind linking the change from your Christmas shopping to the change from the last coffee you bought. But you may want to be careful not to link the change from the sex toys you bought to your kid's college fund.

However, having the RBF flag on for last resort is always a good idea.

Not always: when paying a service that accepts zero-confirmation payments, you shouldn't flag RBF.

[satscraper]

addresses which differ from each other

One more thing to consider: maybe you don't mind linking some of the addresses. If you added a label to your transaction, you probably won't mind linking the change from your Christmas shopping to the change from the last coffee you bought. But you may want to be careful not to link the change from the sex toys you bought to your kid's college fund.

To insure   addresses  incoherency  at all circumstances  I'm thinking of using various derivation paths which would separate those addresses.

[LoyceV]

To insure   addresses  incoherency  at all circumstances  I'm thinking of using various derivation paths which would separate those addresses.

As long as you don't leak your master public key, there's no inherent link between addresses created from the same derivation path.
Keep in mind that using non-standard derivation paths may make it more difficult to recover your funds later on (when you restore your wallet from the mnemonic words).

[TheQuin]

So the chances of getting a transaction stuck in a limbo is indeed true, at least for a specific amount of time after which it might be dropped.

The "at least some time" part was always true. I was not expected that the problem of "indefinitely on limbo" is as big as the others stated.
However, having the RBF flag on for last resort is always a good idea.

My experience using Electrum is that it isn't "indefinitely on limbo" but it can be a real problem. Most Electrum servers will drop the transaction after 14 days but if you don't act immediately and spend it again with a higher fee it will just come back and get stuck for another 14 days. There seem to be enough nodes on the network with different settings to ensure they always get rebroadcast. So using RBF is always best if you can.

[Pmalek]

Hi, I  have been a  btt reader for more than six months and just joined forum to ask questions which were disturbing me most recently  . One of them is related to consolidation,  i.e.,   in terms of privacy, which option would sound better, to consolidate all inputs at once or divide them into smaller chunks and do it for each chunk  separately   at different times.

You can create different wallets for different purposes. Let's say you have one wallet for gambling. In that wallet, all your addresses have coins that went in and out of casinos, sportsbooks, and things like that. Since that is your gambling wallet, you can consolidate those inputs only for that purpose if you want. Unless, of course, you don't want to make a connection between Casino A and Casino B. You can even create a separate wallet for each casino, for example.

Another one of your wallets can be for your private investments in Bitcoin. Let's say you take a part of your salary each month and buy Bitcoin with it. After a year or two, you will have multiple inputs spread across various addresses. You can then consolidate all your investments into one address. You keep your investment wallet separate from your gambling wallet. 

By now, you have probably gotten my point.
But at the end of the day, if your ultimate goal is to consolidate all the coins you own into one single address, it doesn't matter how ling it takes you to do it. If a day or a year from now you connect your gambling activities with your private BTC investment, those smaller consolidations you did before that wont really matter since the connection is there. 

[PawGo]

Consolidate Bump!

You have posted it in the worst moment   or maybe you KNEW and it was on purpose?
Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

[logfiles]

You have posted it in the worst moment  or maybe you KNEW and it was on purpose?
Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Why would you blame LoyceV for the delayed confirmation of your transaction? Unconfirmed transaction size in the mempool can spike at anytime, and it happened some hours ago. It doesn't mean he did it on purpose.

1. You should learn to use mempool observers to determine the state of the unconfirmed transaction before you send out a transaction - https://mempool.space
2. Learn to send out transactions with RBF enabled so that in such instance, you can bump the transaction fee.

This was what happened in the last 24 hours

[LoyceV]

You have posted it in the worst moment   or maybe you KNEW and it was on purpose?

Of course I saw fees were up a tiny bit when I posted this. I couldn't know they'd go up after that, but this morning fees dropped to the minimum several times again. And that's the point of this topic: consolidate inputs when you have the time to wait a bit. Don't use the minimum fee if you're ordering dinner.

Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Possibly. Fees dropped again when the price dropped.

[NeuroticFish]

Because you know, I did it this morning with 1sat and I wait and wait…
I guess it is correlated with today’s +9%

Possibly. Fees dropped again when the price dropped.

It was the middle of the week and the prices growing; of course that the chances for the low fee to stay are not so great. But one has to learn patience; if the mempool was empty during the week, (with some luck) it should be empty at least in the next week-end.
I've seen LoyceV up and I've also made a transaction "at the worse time". But I was not worried at all; it was nothing urgent and I also had RBF on. Now it's processed.


BTW, great to see you feel better, Loyce!

[PawGo]

Why would you blame LoyceV for the delayed confirmation of your transaction? Unconfirmed transaction size in the mempool can spike at anytime, and it happened some hours ago. It doesn't mean he did it on purpose.

It was not to blame anyone, relax. It was just to show the irony of situation that almost exactly the moment of "bump" was posted, the mempool started to grow. Coincidence, you know.

I've seen LoyceV up and I've also made a transaction "at the worse time". But I was not worried at all; it was nothing urgent and I also had RBF on. Now it's processed.

Exactly, mine were confirmed too. Keep calm and consolidate.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Fees dropped again when the price dropped.

I think when price starts to increase then more people starts moving their coins. They buy bitcoin and send them to their wallets. Eventually the mempool started overloading by transactions and fees increases. Some also send their coins to exchanges to sell their coins. I have experienced it many times. When bitcoin price is stable or falling then you can send your coins using even 1 sat/b fees.

Just checked jochen-hoenicke.de and right now it's under 1 vMB for the next block.

[NeuroticFish]

Consolidate your small inputs while you can, low fees won't last forever!

It's a good point and good moment indeed, since, more than mempool being almost empty, week-end is also coming, increasing greatly the chances 1sat/vbyte transactions will be probably processed (way) before Monday.

[LoyceV]

This has been a while:

(source)

Bitcoin's price drop may have triggered some panic selling: that was about 100 vMB in transactions at 10 sat/vbyte.